Empire of the Mediterranean: An Interactive Aragon AAR

[Michaelangelo]

((Well this is an odd situation. The Cortz is only at 2 members, since that's only how many landed nobles we have, and one of them has just stated he'll be gone for the next week or so, meaning it's unlikely he'll vote on this veto. So the question is whether the Cortz can use its veto with only a single vote or if the fact that majority vote cannot be obtained means it fails. If @Robban204 has not left yet, he can vote on this veto, otherwise I'll need to figure out what will happen here.))

Serbia has already shown itself vulnerable to attack from neighbours, and if we just leave them in their pitiful attempt, they'll just be swallowed up by Hungary or even Poland. It is to our benefit to have our most trusted allies hold such land. I doubt the occupation of such land will cause any problems. The entirety of Anatolia was not always under Byzantium's control and yet now it remains stable. Perhaps if the Marshal stopped viewing the Greeks as indolent children he might realize they are valued allies with genuine needs and desires. A stronger Byzantium benefits Hispania, as it always has. Why else have we bothered to destroy the Ottomans, conquer all of Greece, and much more? It surely was not out of the kindness of our hearts. Their revival and expansion has always benefited Hispania, and continues to do so. Ignoring their continued calls for assistance after all they have done for Hispania will only damage our ties. I assure you, I will not be signing any peace that leaves Serbia for some other power to conquer.

- Andreu de Trastámara, Chancellor of Hispania

 

[Mach Twelve]

((Well this is an odd situation. The Cortz is only at 2 members, since that's only how many landed nobles we have, and one of them has just stated he'll be gone for the next week or so, meaning it's unlikely he'll vote on this veto. So the question is whether the Cortz can use its veto with only a single vote or if the fact that majority vote cannot be obtained means it fails. If @Robban204 has not left yet, he can vote on this veto, otherwise I'll need to figure out what will happen here.))

Serbia has already shown itself vulnerable to attack from neighbours, and if we just leave them in their pitiful attempt, they'll just be swallowed up by Hungary or even Poland. It is to our benefit to have our most trusted allies hold such land. I doubt the occupation of such land will cause any problems. The entirety of Anatolia was not always under Byzantium's control and yet now it remains stable. Perhaps if the Marshal stopped viewing the Greeks as indolent children he might realize they are valued allies with genuine needs and desires. A stronger Byzantium benefits Hispania, as it always has. Why else have we bothered to destroy the Ottomans, conquer all of Greece, and much more? It surely was not out of the kindness of our hearts. Their revival and expansion has always benefited Hispania, and continues to do so. Ignoring their continued calls for assistance after all they have done for Hispania will only damage our ties. I assure you, I will not be signing any peace that leaves Serbia for some other power to conquer.

- Andreu de Trastámara, Chancellor of Hispania

Indeed, a potential enemy, or even a neutral power, gaining ground on the southern banks of the Danube is a grave strategic disadvantage to Byzantium and Hispania. Having complete control of the region would allow the Greeks to defend the area without a constant Hispanian presence. By supporting such an expansion, we further validate our position as Protector of the Greeks to the world, and by denying it we leave ourselves vulnerable to claims of abandoning that Oath. It seems that the Marshal intends for Byzantium to be permanently exposed to potential enemies, ill treatment for an ally who has in the past gone to great lengths to aid us in our wars in China and Mexico.

By readily accepting their aid in wars that the Greeks have no possibility of gain and yet denying them the ability to defend themselves, we say that our conquests of distant lands is more important than their safety, a great insult that should not stand towards an ally that we supposedly value. Byzantium is not a small city-state barely clinging to survival anymore, as it was in the fifteenth century, but a great regional power in Eastern Europe. It is a mistake to continue to view them as such a city-state. It is likely that they would have ventured to regain these lands long ago, were they able. Aiding them to do so would only further deepen our bond and grant us their continued military support, something that is not small or easily discarded. Such a thing would allow us to divert our power elsewhere in the world, perhaps China. We could do for more expansion in there or in India.

Besides, these lands in the Balkans are the last they can claim due to ancestral birthright, perhaps we could grant them this boon in exchange for an oath to not request for us to conquer any more territory for them.

 

[alscon]

((We could fill the Cortz with a part-time member who votes like the others, but that would empower me too much. How about rolling his vote?))

There seems to be a common misconception about what is ancestral birthright. If I was a Greek, I certainly wouldn't use that term. For their entire realm is His Imperial Highness Caesar Jaume's birthright.

And can anyone explain to me how Serbia, alone after we dealt with Poland, or Hungary, is a potential threat to Byzantium? They could attack with their entire male population and not come far. And it is not like the current borders can't be defended. In the extremely unlikely case of an attack, the Byzantine army would anyway be somewhere else than holding the Danube, so I fail to see a strategic advantage to the current situation.

Protector. Trusted allies. These are all fancy words. I am entirely right when I see the Greeks as indolent children, as the Chancellor says. They didn't choose us as protectors. It was then Aragon that imposed the protection on Byzantium through war. To gain a valuable help in the East, to secure trade and spread the faith against the infidel. For centuries, Byzantium has profited from it, grew from the brink of destruction, while caring solely about internal politics. They had and have no choice when we call for war, only making small-scale decisions about their involvement. Now they feel strong. Perhaps strong enough to no longer need our 'protection'. This is not helping an ally. We are forging a dagger for our servant to stab us in the back - or has their 'star general' shown any other interest than his own? Why does Byzantium care so much for its defensibility with the might of the Quadruple Entente behind it? Because it wants to leave the shackles of its past behind. I say we must tighten them instead of loosening, or we will regret it. One Roman Empire, not two.

 

[Michaelangelo]

((We could fill the Cortz with a part-time member who votes like the others, but that would empower me too much. How about rolling his vote?))

There seems to be a common misconception about what is ancestral birthright. If I was a Greek, I certainly wouldn't use that term. For their entire realm is His Imperial Highness Caesar Jaume's birthright.

And can anyone explain to me how Serbia, alone after we dealt with Poland, or Hungary, is a potential threat to Byzantium? They could attack with their entire male population and not come far. And it is not like the current borders can't be defended. In the extremely unlikely case of an attack, the Byzantine army would anyway be somewhere else than holding the Danube, so I fail to see a strategic advantage to the current situation.

Protector. Trusted allies. These are all fancy words. I am entirely right when I see the Greeks as indolent children, as the Chancellor says. They didn't choose us as protectors. It was then Aragon that imposed the protection on Byzantium through war. To gain a valuable help in the East, to secure trade and spread the faith against the infidel. For centuries, Byzantium has profited from it, grew from the brink of destruction, while caring solely about internal politics. They had and have no choice when we call for war, only making small-scale decisions about their involvement. Now they feel strong. Perhaps strong enough to no longer need our 'protection'. This is not helping an ally. We are forging a dagger for our servant to stab us in the back - or has their 'star general' shown any other interest than his own? Why does Byzantium care so much for its defensibility with the might of the Quadruple Entente behind it? Because it wants to leave the shackles of its past behind. I say we must tighten them instead of loosening, or we will regret it. One Roman Empire, not two.

((I have an alternate solution...))

Andreu de Trastámara scowled at every word the Marshal spoke. "And if you continue to refer to the Greeks as 'servants' and the like, there will forever be two Roman Empires because Byzantium will feel no choice but to go their own way. We are better off this way, experiencing mutual benefit from our close ties. They help us and we in turn help them. We cannot expect Byzantium to follow us like a leashed hound for the rest of eternity. We may be the senior partner in any such relationship, but there are still obligations to fulfill."

The Chancellor turned to the Emperor, for his support would be crucial. "We cannot let this inherent hatred towards the Greeks amongst some of the nobles damage relations with Byzantium. We did not bring them back from the brink of death just to spurn them. These gains they ask of us are small and easily taken. We have conquered land all across the world, so perhaps it is time to help our loyal friends to acquire some of their own."

Emperor Jaume had been listening to the argument raging in court for some time with growing frustration. He had hesitated to intervene, not wanting to earn the ire of either side or having the argument thrown his way. Now his patience was growing thin. Time to be that strong ruler he needed to be. He stood up from his throne, drawing the attention of all around him, and then took in a deep breath.

"Enough of this," Emperor Jaume said. Turning to the Marshal first, he added, "Seeing as the Cortz seems undecided on the issue and I do believe we must at least offer the Greeks an olive branch, we shall declare war on both Poland and Hungary and grant them territory in the Balkans, including Serbia." He then turned to the Chancellor. "However, it is time the Greeks stopped relying on us for their conquests. No troops except the Exercit Valencia may be permitted to pursue offensive action within Hungary, and even then I would prefer that they focus on Poland. If Byzantium wants Hungary's land in the Balkans, they must take it themselves." Jaume looked at both men again in turn with a stern expression. "Do I make myself clear?"

((So essentially we're going ahead with the war against Hungary, but treating it as though the veto passed, meaning we can only use the Exercit Valencia against them offensively.))

 

[Mach Twelve]

((I have an alternate solution...))

Andreu de Trastámara scowled at every word the Marshal spoke. "And if you continue to refer to the Greeks as 'servants' and the like, there will forever be two Roman Empires because Byzantium will feel no choice but to go their own way. We are better off this way, experiencing mutual benefit from our close ties. They help us and we in turn help them. We cannot expect Byzantium to follow us like a leashed hound for the rest of eternity. We may be the senior partner in any such relationship, but there are still obligations to fulfill."

The Chancellor turned to the Emperor, for his support would be crucial. "We cannot let this inherent hatred towards the Greeks amongst some of the nobles damage relations with Byzantium. We did not bring them back from the brink of death just to spurn them. These gains they ask of us are small and easily taken. We have conquered land all across the world, so perhaps it is time to help our loyal friends to acquire some of their own."

Emperor Jaume had been listening to the argument raging in court for some time with growing frustration. He had hesitated to intervene, not wanting to earn the ire of either side or having the argument thrown his way. Now his patience was growing thin. Time to be that strong ruler he needed to be. He stood up from his throne, drawing the attention of all around him, and then took in a deep breath.

"Enough of this," Emperor Jaume said. Turning to the Marshal first, he added, "Seeing as the Cortz seems undecided on the issue and I do believe we must at least offer the Greeks an olive branch, we shall declare war on both Poland and Hungary and grant them territory in the Balkans, including Serbia." He then turned to the Chancellor. "However, it is time the Greeks stopped relying on us for their conquests. No troops except the Exercit Valencia may be permitted to pursue offensive action within Hungary, and even then I would prefer that they focus on Poland. If Byzantium wants Hungary's land in the Balkans, they must take it themselves." Jaume looked at both men again in turn with a stern expression. "Do I make myself clear?"

((So essentially we're going ahead with the war against Hungary, but treating it as though the veto passed, meaning we can only use the Exercit Valencia against them offensively.))

Sophia voiced her opinion from where she sat, Alfons was growing fussy from all the shouting by the Marshal and Chancellor.

"That should prove to be acceptable, as long as Austria, Sweden, and Hispania commits to the war against Poland. Byzantium has one of the largest Armies in Europe, perhaps it is time for the Megas Domestikos to use it."

She then left the room, carrying an upset child with her.

 

[Robban204]

Nicolás voiced his opinion before he left for important business.

"I believe it is in our best interest that we go ahead with this war, for it surely will benefit Hispania aswell as Byzantium.

((Got a small break, yay! But if we would vote I wouldn't veto the war, so go ahead and use any forces necessary After this however it's unlikely I'll have access to a computer or phone until the ninth ))

 

[ML8991]

((Glad I started the stair trend with good old Count Matthias, just a nice gentle post to probably say I will find a way to reboot my line, something about bastards or something or other could be occurring, you know typical Trastámara/de Soneta stuff. Which brings me to two questions @Michaelangelo - 1) Can I make such a bastard from Caterina II? 2) when we doing that funeral, she shouldn't be forgotten- perhaps do a little memo thing of holding onto her royal tiara by Jaume as a recollection for the young son?.))

 

[alscon]

Before Jaume's intervention:
I am another subject of His Imperial Majesty. The ancestral lands of my family are in France. So why don't we conquer France for me? After all, the Sicilian crown had to be conquered too.
And any Chancellor worth his salt sees that Austria will not like any mistreatment of Hungary.

After:
Of course, Your Imperial Majesty. I'll have the troops ready. Field Marshal Villanova will lead the Exercit Valencia in my stead to prevent any conflict of interests, while I lead the Polish campaign.

Montségur then left, the military men he is, but without returning Andreu's anger. The debate hadn't ended, but for now at least, it forced Jaume to act like the Emperor he had to be.

 

[Michaelangelo]

((Got a small break, yay! But if we would vote I wouldn't veto the war, so go ahead and use any forces necessary After this however it's unlikely I'll have access to a computer or phone until the ninth ))

((Guess I should have waited. Oh well, the compromise is probably for the best.))

((Glad I started the stair trend with good old Count Matthias, just a nice gentle post to probably say I will find a way to reboot my line, something about bastards or something or other could be occurring, you know typical Trastámara/de Soneta stuff. Which brings me to two questions @Michaelangelo - 1) Can I make such a bastard from Caterina II? 2) when we doing that funeral, she shouldn't be forgotten- perhaps do a little memo thing of holding onto her royal tiara by Jaume as a recollection for the young son?.))

((Seeing as having an empress have a bastard would put the legitimacy of the entire royal line under Alfons VIII into doubt, I'd strongly recommend against that. It'd probably be best to create a bastard from another Soneta. As for the funeral, it pretty much had to happen when she died, so it makes little sense for it to happen 15 years later. It's assumed it happened like the many other royal funerals we never IC. I suppose I could have a Jaume IC about that. He has some issues to work out anyway. ))

* * * * *

((Oops, almost forgot the vote. Only a mission again, and it's another no brainer.

Mission: Trade/Nukunu/Abstain

The vote will end Thursday at 12PM PST. Please bold your votes and include your character's name and class.

))

 

[hirahammad]

Mission:Nukunu

((Sancho Velazquez, clergy))

 

[ML8991]

((shame about no flames or big kaboomy then, but ok to both))

 

[DragonOfAtlantis]

Mission: Nukunu
Sancho Villanova
((Courtier, Colonist, Funded Colonist, NPC Merchant, Grand Admiral, - 2VP for Suez Canal))

 

[wzhang29]

Konrad, 77, has passed away in Canton. No traces of the word Lübecker would ever appear in the books again afterwards, but somewhere, the family still lived on...

((New Character:

Name: Liu Binhan
DoB: 1702
Class: Courtier
Religion: CJC-Protestant (secretly Confucian )
Bio: N/A))


Mission: Nukunu

 

[hirahammad]

((Religion: CJC-Protestant (secretly Confucian )

((Welcome to the the Heathen Club, though I may not be an active member. ))

 

[Mach Twelve]

Mission: Nukunu

((Royalty))

 

[Dadarian]

Duque y Conte y Conte Tomas V L.T. Etxeto, c. 1705​

Name: Duque Tomas V Luys Tomas Etxeto de Navarra, Conte de Vizcaya, Conte de Riojo
Date of Birth: 12 April 1673
Class: Landed Noble (Navarre)
Religion: Catholic

- - - - - - - - - - -

Coat of Arms of the Etxeto
​

It is my sad duty to announce that my greatuncle, the late Duke of Navarre, Count of Vizcaya, and Count of Riojo, has past into the hands of the Lord. Aged five score and three years, he will be missed. However as he has past into the arms of the Lord, I, Tomas Luys Tomas Etxeto, do rightfully claim his place as Duke of Navarre and all the other titles and responsibilities of said title as Tomas V Etxeto.

((I'm back bitches))

 

[Michaelangelo]

Name: Duque Tomas V Luys Tomas Etxeto de Navarra, Conte de Vizcaya, Conte de Riojo
Date of Birth: 12 April 1633
Class: Landed Noble (Navarre)
Religion: Catholic

((Based on his birth year, he'd be 107 years old, which is far too old to be playable. I'm assuming he's not actually born in 1633.))

 

[Dadarian]

((Based on his birth year, he'd be 107 years old, which is far too old to be playable. I'm assuming he's not actually born in 1633.))

((Yup, he's only 67.))

 

[Mach Twelve]

((Yup, he's only 67.))

((only 67... 67 is that the new 30? I guess ol' Petros is astounded by you whippersnappers and your crazy ideas of age!))

 

[ML8991]

((@Mach Twelve say that to Don Chesus or Francesco de Soneta , the ones that are even older than your ghosty guy . ))