- Feb 3, 2011
((I think it would be better if Michaelangelo decides what the ideologies of our parties are, since I'm not entirely certain we can fairly assess ourselves.
For instance, Reconquista, given its base in the aristocracy and opposition to liberal proposals, is essentially a conservative party. Personally, just based on how the parties acted in EotM, here's how I feel (not necessarily the right way) it should be broken down:
Imperials (Oppose nearly all reform, promote absolute powers of the monarch, near-jingoism)
Reconquistas (Oppose most reforms, very pro-military)
Camponistas (Support reforms except for very radical ones, moderately anti-military, pro-Parliament)
Marina (Support slightly more reforms than Camponistas, technocratic, plutocratic)
Phoenix (Support all the reforms, openly anti-Emperor, essentially early French Revolution ideology)
Bear in mind, as far as I understand, it won't really matter much IG, especially if we're still determining the Cortz and Assembly makeups outside of the game.))
((I'm not sure about the Reconquista being conservative. It openly promotes itself as liberal and supported many liberal proposals. Too bad that Vicky can't tell the difference between moderate liberals and far-left liberals, because the Reconquista is probably on the center-left. But I would be okay with grouping the Reconquista under conservative if we can accept that conservative roughly covers the ideological center. There would be too many "liberal" parties anyway.))
((I think it is best to consider it in a relative sense. Our most pro-monarch party ahould be reactionary; the least, liberal; and those in the center, conservative. Of course, Michael could mod in new ideologies if he particularly desired.))
((That makes sense. Also, he can just rename the existing ones. Modding in new ideologies is very messy and can break a lot of stuff.))
((What you are failing to consider is the fact that reactionaries barely get 10% even in 1836 where they are strongest. That isn't very appropriate for what was the largest party by popular vote in 1821. Also, I would like to reiterate that I was metagaming as a V2 Conservative the entire time. If I were a Reactionary, I would have been more aggressive and attempted to repeal reforms that passed. You notice that I wasn't the one proposing the same thing again and again no matter how much I disagreed with it. As for rejecting reforms, our stability was maxxed and I was using stability as a substitute for militancy.
And since, I see Mike has posted his interpretation of the stances, the Imperials (who will be using the same name as they always have) will be Moralists.
Also, since I still have it RAISE stability))
((First off, I definitely won't be modding in new ideologies. That's a bit outside my comfort zone, and I agree with zenphoenix that it will only end up as a mess. I seem to remember SoA attempting something similar and it ended up being scrapped.
As for the ideologies of each party, I admit it is a bit muddled about what party fits well. Admittedly, Hispania and its parties are generally more liberal than what would normally exist historically. I feel that has caused us somewhat to shift our parties around to fit into traditional spots even when they wouldn't elsewhere. The Imperials only look reactionary because we have no obvious reactionary party. I also wholeheartedly agree with Mach Twelve's assessment regarding reactionaries. I personally have always viewed them as a conservative party partly because I knew Vicky 2 would never give them the appropriate numbers as a reactionary party. Seeing as we've now established that the Imperials will be splitting up into two parties, I think it conceivable that the Imperials remain conservative and the splinter group reactionary. They'll probably end up dominating Parliament at first, but based on the political climate caused by Joan, that seems reasonable.
For the Camponistas, I concur with Firehound that it'd be conservative. I know some might see it as liberal since it has favoured reforms, but I've taken note that most support for reforms was moderate. There is also the agrarian focus that has existed since its creation and attention to the nobility. I think it makes a decent alternative conservative party to the Imperials, since the Imperials are obviously the clear right party and Camponistas more moderate.
Reconquista is a bit mixed. I see why some might see it as conservative due to its support of the Imperials and pro-monarchy view, but I have also noticed that they have supported many reforms and zenphoenix has consistently branded it as a liberal party. I do not think that supporting the monarchy necessarily makes one conservative. Their positions on religion and citizenship are definitely very liberal in nature. Just like the Camponistas, the Reconquista are moderate, but I'd but them more on the liberal side.
The Marina are a good choice for liberal due to their economic views. Liberal parties in Vicky 2 are usually laissez-faire, and a party supportive of the merchant class would fit perfectly here. Admittedly, I've viewed it as a very centrist party in the past, but seeing as I know 05 wants to shift the party further left, it's probably best in this spot.
The Partido Fénix (hard not to call in Phoenix ) is really only a liberal party at first until anarcho-liberal unlocks, so no question where that party fits.
Now, if we go by my positions, we conveniently will have one reactionary party, two conservatives, two liberals, and one liberal-turning-anarcho-liberal, a nice balanced Parliament. This distribution also fits nicely with how Parliament was before 1821 and likely would end up during the gap years. Usually at the start, the conservatives have much higher numbers, and conveniently I had the Imperials and Camponistas as the largest parties before the gap years. Based on Joan's reign as Regent, the conservative hold on power would be even stronger. This does mean our three liberal parties will be squabbling over a small number of seats for a bit, but likely their situation will improve after a few decades, especially after the Partido Fénix swaps to anarcho-liberal. I'll still leave it up to the party founders to decide their party's ideology, but this is at least how I've viewed them all.))