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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Michaelangelo

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((I think it would be better if Michaelangelo decides what the ideologies of our parties are, since I'm not entirely certain we can fairly assess ourselves.

For instance, Reconquista, given its base in the aristocracy and opposition to liberal proposals, is essentially a conservative party. Personally, just based on how the parties acted in EotM, here's how I feel (not necessarily the right way) it should be broken down:

Reactionary:
Imperials (Oppose nearly all reform, promote absolute powers of the monarch, near-jingoism)

Conservative:
Reconquistas (Oppose most reforms, very pro-military)
Camponistas (Support reforms except for very radical ones, moderately anti-military, pro-Parliament)

Liberal:
Marina (Support slightly more reforms than Camponistas, technocratic, plutocratic)
Phoenix (Support all the reforms, openly anti-Emperor, essentially early French Revolution ideology)

Bear in mind, as far as I understand, it won't really matter much IG, especially if we're still determining the Cortz and Assembly makeups outside of the game.))

((I'm not sure about the Reconquista being conservative. It openly promotes itself as liberal and supported many liberal proposals. Too bad that Vicky can't tell the difference between moderate liberals and far-left liberals, because the Reconquista is probably on the center-left. But I would be okay with grouping the Reconquista under conservative if we can accept that conservative roughly covers the ideological center. There would be too many "liberal" parties anyway.))

((I think it is best to consider it in a relative sense. Our most pro-monarch party ahould be reactionary; the least, liberal; and those in the center, conservative. Of course, Michael could mod in new ideologies if he particularly desired.))

((That makes sense. Also, he can just rename the existing ones. Modding in new ideologies is very messy and can break a lot of stuff.))

((What you are failing to consider is the fact that reactionaries barely get 10% even in 1836 where they are strongest. That isn't very appropriate for what was the largest party by popular vote in 1821. Also, I would like to reiterate that I was metagaming as a V2 Conservative the entire time. If I were a Reactionary, I would have been more aggressive and attempted to repeal reforms that passed. You notice that I wasn't the one proposing the same thing again and again no matter how much I disagreed with it. As for rejecting reforms, our stability was maxxed and I was using stability as a substitute for militancy.

And since, I see Mike has posted his interpretation of the stances, the Imperials (who will be using the same name as they always have) will be Moralists.

Also, since I still have it RAISE stability))

((First off, I definitely won't be modding in new ideologies. That's a bit outside my comfort zone, and I agree with zenphoenix that it will only end up as a mess. I seem to remember SoA attempting something similar and it ended up being scrapped.

As for the ideologies of each party, I admit it is a bit muddled about what party fits well. Admittedly, Hispania and its parties are generally more liberal than what would normally exist historically. I feel that has caused us somewhat to shift our parties around to fit into traditional spots even when they wouldn't elsewhere. The Imperials only look reactionary because we have no obvious reactionary party. I also wholeheartedly agree with Mach Twelve's assessment regarding reactionaries. I personally have always viewed them as a conservative party partly because I knew Vicky 2 would never give them the appropriate numbers as a reactionary party. Seeing as we've now established that the Imperials will be splitting up into two parties, I think it conceivable that the Imperials remain conservative and the splinter group reactionary. They'll probably end up dominating Parliament at first, but based on the political climate caused by Joan, that seems reasonable.

For the Camponistas, I concur with Firehound that it'd be conservative. I know some might see it as liberal since it has favoured reforms, but I've taken note that most support for reforms was moderate. There is also the agrarian focus that has existed since its creation and attention to the nobility. I think it makes a decent alternative conservative party to the Imperials, since the Imperials are obviously the clear right party and Camponistas more moderate.

Reconquista is a bit mixed. I see why some might see it as conservative due to its support of the Imperials and pro-monarchy view, but I have also noticed that they have supported many reforms and zenphoenix has consistently branded it as a liberal party. I do not think that supporting the monarchy necessarily makes one conservative. Their positions on religion and citizenship are definitely very liberal in nature. Just like the Camponistas, the Reconquista are moderate, but I'd but them more on the liberal side.

The Marina are a good choice for liberal due to their economic views. Liberal parties in Vicky 2 are usually laissez-faire, and a party supportive of the merchant class would fit perfectly here. Admittedly, I've viewed it as a very centrist party in the past, but seeing as I know 05 wants to shift the party further left, it's probably best in this spot.

The Partido Fénix (hard not to call in Phoenix :p) is really only a liberal party at first until anarcho-liberal unlocks, so no question where that party fits.

Now, if we go by my positions, we conveniently will have one reactionary party, two conservatives, two liberals, and one liberal-turning-anarcho-liberal, a nice balanced Parliament. This distribution also fits nicely with how Parliament was before 1821 and likely would end up during the gap years. Usually at the start, the conservatives have much higher numbers, and conveniently I had the Imperials and Camponistas as the largest parties before the gap years. Based on Joan's reign as Regent, the conservative hold on power would be even stronger. This does mean our three liberal parties will be squabbling over a small number of seats for a bit, but likely their situation will improve after a few decades, especially after the Partido Fénix swaps to anarcho-liberal. I'll still leave it up to the party founders to decide their party's ideology, but this is at least how I've viewed them all.))
 

zenphoenix

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((I agree. I guess I'll keep the Partido Reconquista as a liberal party then.))
 

Michaelangelo

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((I don't really think the IG party compositions matter much. In most games they aren't even considered IC.))

((It will matter here in some respect since I'm using the in-game values as a baseline and then modifying it based on player support. So a conservative party with few members might still have a significant presence, while those following a less popular ideology will need much more player support to get anywhere. It should be a way of balancing player preference and actually keeping the POPs who would technically be voting for these parties in mind.))
 

Arcas Cronifer

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Industrial Revolution:
1. Invest in industry
2. Do not meddle in the economy

((As the colonial economic system is bound to enter in a slow decay, the State should ensure its future source of income by taking part in the industrial boom if we ever want to create and sustain a modern army for the Empire))

UKA's Offer:
1. Sell Labrador
2. Refuse offer

((I'm interested to see if this province will turn into some kind of "Hispanic Québec" in the future :D))

Qing's Invasion:
2. Hand over Korea
1. Fend off invasion

((Let's be smart here. Direct occupation cannot be the right way of dealing with these distant colonies surrounded by large Asian empires. This might look like a defeat for now, but revenge will come later on if we can be patient, and it will be on another theatre - the economic one)).

Parliamentary Coup:
1. Support the government
2. Support the coup

((Regent Joan might be a tough ruler, but he hasn't abused his right to exercise the power. The emperor's death could be a matter of months or even weeks. Let's see if Joan tries his hand at a coup himself to keep the power when it happens, and then it will be pretty legit to get rid of him. A coup should certainly be thought about, but those who would put themselves in it too soon would just be considered traitors and easily wiped away by the regent and his supporters.))
 

Michaelangelo

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((I've officially received mod approval to start the Vicky 2 part. Once the gap years are covered and all the conversion and prep work is done, the next stage of this iAAR will begin.

giphy.gif
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Mach Twelve

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((I've officially received mod approval to start the Vicky 2 part. Once the gap years are covered and all the conversion and prep work is done, the next stage of this iAAR will begin.

giphy.gif
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((Glad to hear. Every knee will bend to our glorious overlord Regent Joan in 1836 when we purge the traitors. All hail Hispania.))
 

JCan

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((it's been a long, long time since I was involved on this thread, but I'm delighted to see that it is moving to Vicky 2! Sterling work, @Michaelangelo ))
 

Michaelangelo

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((And that brings our last vote of this nature to an end. There will likely be another, but it'll be mostly to settle any loose threads.

Industrial Revolution: Invest in industry
UKA's Offer: Sell Labrador
Qing's Invasion: Fend off invasion
Parliamentary Coup: Support the government

I have a feeling things are about to get interesting.... :D))
 

Michaelangelo

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1835 - The Right to Rule

The sale of Labrador was the first business to be dealt with going into the new year. While Hispania's finances had recovered, some extra gold in the treasury couldn't hurt. Also, with Hispania's position becoming more and more tenuous, it would not do to make enemies in the Americas, a region where Hispania's positions had only strengthened, albeit indirectly through its colonial nations. Either way, the United Kingdom of America's offer was accepted, and Labrador was sold to the Americans, who were more than grateful for the transfer. Now they controlled the coastline and could focus on their colonization efforts into the interior.

The extra boost to the treasury provided extra funds for the government to get involved in the new industries popping up. These factories and railroads were clearly the future, and the government clearly saw this. The state began investing funds into these business ventures, supporting the creation of new factories to provide jobs for Hispanians and bolster the economy.

Not everything was so rosy and positive for Hispania. The situation in Asia continued to deteriorate. While Qing was not quite as advanced as their neighbours and did not have the full support of the local Koreans, Hispania's armed forces were stretched thin in the area. The Exercit Cathay was nearly decimated and could not leave Macau or Hong Kong without risking losing them to Ming. The Exercit India could not safely leave the subcontinent, for the Indians had rebelled once before and it could happen once more. That left the Exercit Colonial, but its distance from the war theatre presented a problem. By the time it arrived in Korea, Qing had captured most of the peninsula. Attempts to create a beachhead were thwarted on several occasions, leading to massive casualties. Even when they finally managed to land, a new problem presented itself. The ranks of the army had been filled with colonial subjects to keep numbers up, but unlike their European counterparts, these men weren't quite as thrilled about Hispania's imperial ventures. Morale was quite low, for these men from the colonies had no interest in fighting for some far-off land they cared nothing about. When forced into battle with Qing, they were just as likely to retreat as charge the enemy. Attempts to instill discipline in the men failed, and a full-on mutiny soon erupted. The Colonial Colonial was in shatters, and what remained had no choice but to abandon Korea or get wiped out by the Qing while its own men fled. The whole campaign had ended in disaster.

Perhaps the war against Qing could have gone better if the government had focused its undivided attention on the area, but Regent Joan de Trastámara had much more serious matters to deal with at home. Even as war erupted in Asia, forces in Hispania gathered to strike at the regency and force through reforms the Regent had denied for years. A plan soon developed, one that would see Joan brought down along with his most trusted men. While Joan's rise to power had been permitted by law, it was maintained by the army. His hold on the army was nearly absolute, for only those he trusted most rose in the ranks. The only way to remove him was to remove those controlling the army. To leave any of them untouched would result in the army moving in to restore order. Fortunately for those involved in planning the coup, Joan provided them with an opportunity. The Regent met with his general every few months to discuss the state of the army and other affairs. During these meetings, all the most powerful men in the army, and thus those propping up the regency, would be in the same city. If they could be taken down on-route before they reached the security of the meeting place, the Regent could be brought down. When the time came for the next meeting, the members of the coup moved to strike.

Men followed the carriages of the generals and the Regent as they gathered at the meeting place in Valencia. Each of the carriages rolled towards the meeting place, but none would reach their destination. As they drew near, the coup forces struck, attacking the carriages and dragging their occupants out into the streets. It was soon a surprise to many that those in the carriages turned out not to be the generals or even the Regent, but random servants. Realization soon hit them. They had been betrayed.

Just as the coup had struck, the Exercit Valencia filtered into the city. Soldiers marched on those that had tried to take out the generals and Regent, now exposed in the open. Many tried to flee, but the army had blocked the side streets and surrounded the rebels. The army had been prepared for them and cut off all routes of escape. One by one, they were all rounded up to face justice at the hands of the Regent. The capital was locked down as the city was scoured for all those involved. The conspirators were unmasked as more and more evidence was discovered. Nearly a third of the members of the Assembly were directly implicated in the coup attempts, and even a handful of members of the Cortz were connected. Even more were loosely connected, although not enough to try them for treason. Those who undoubtedly rose up against the government faced the wrath of Joan, who had them executed for treason. As for Parliament, it was not to escape Joan's anger. With undeniable proof that seditious elements existed in Parliament, ones intent on overthrowing the Crown, there was nothing holding him back at striking at those who meant him harm. The Assembly, the main source of the coup, was disbanded, its members either locked up or sent home. Joan stated that the body had become a hotbed of revolution and would cease to exist until Hispania was purged of such treasonous thought. As for the Cortz, not even Joan would disband that body, risking the wrath of the nobles as well. However, there was still undeniable proof that some nobles on the Cortz had been involved and that could not be ignored. The body had to be altered to remove such treasonous elements and ensure it served the Crown's best interests. Regent Joan declared that nobles would no longer be guaranteed a seat on the Cortz, with the exception of the dukes and grand dukes who would retain their hereditary seats. From now on, the Crown would appoint titled nobles to most seats at the recommendation of the Cortz, ensuring that only those who served the Crown faithfully sat on the body. With such dramatic changes to Parliament, it seemed clear to all where the true power now lay.

There was one person implicated in the coup that shocked many, and it was Joan himself who pointed her out. A dramatic scene occurred at court as soldiers marched into the palace and arrested Empress Jeanne for possible involvement in the coup. Joan revealed that he had discovered the coup when he had the Empress's servants followed, for he had never truly trusted her. One of them had unintentionally led him right to those organizing the coup, allowing him to infiltrate their ranks and learn the full extent of their plans. While there was nothing directly implicating that Jeanne's servant had gotten involved at her insistence, and thus not enough evidence to convict her of treason, the implications were strong enough to confine her to her chambers without protest from the court. One by one, all of those who opposed Joan were falling away, caught in their own plans against him. It seemed that Hispania was destined to be ruled by its Regent for a little longer.

For a few months, Joan tightened his hold on power. His greatest opponents had either been locked away or executed. Perhaps the one person in a position to contest him, Crown Prince Ferran, refused to show up at court, preferring to spend his days with his wife's family in Leon. He had never been that interested in politics, and did not have the wilful spirit to put up any meaningful resistance to Joan. Yet even as Joan cemented his power, it was always dependent on one single fact: he was a regent and only served as long as Pere both lived and was incapable of ruling. The attack on Pere nearly a decade ago had left him comatose and provided the means for Joan's rise to power, but his death could just as easily remove him from power. The difficulty of the Emperor being comatose was that no one ever saw him. The only evidence of his continued survival was the servants continuing to care for him and the doctors attending to him. If he was to die, only those closest to him would know. As the years passed by, rumours would circulate that the Emperor was actually dead and had been for quite some time. There was nothing to substantiate this rumour, but with the Emperor kept from the public eye, there was nothing to disprove it either. It didn't manage to gain much ground, that is until tragedy struck.

The Empress had been confined to her quarters for some time, never permitted to leave or even allowed to see her husband. Jeanne wallowed in solitude, and some said that took its toll. One afternoon, a maid heard the sound of breaking glass followed by a loud thud as she washed clothes outside. She went to investigate, only to find the Empress sprawled on the ground, having thrown herself from her second-story window. Jeanne, frail and old by that point, barely survived the fall, and she had only enough time to say one thing before she passed away. As the maid came to her side, Jeanne looked the maid in the eye and said, "The Emperor is dead. Long live the Emperor."

Word of the Empress's tragic suicide, as well as her final words, spread like wildfire, despite Joan's attempt to keep it secret. The last thing he needed was a rumour of the Emperor being dead surfacing yet again, especially when it was started by the Empress herself right before she died. When confronted on the issue, Joan stated that the Empress had not been able to see the Emperor since the coup, for he could not allow someone involved in an attack on the Crown anywhere near Pere. If the Emperor was truly dead, she would have no knowledge of it, and if she did it would have been from before the coup, which then she could have simply said so then and ended things then and there. It was merely the act of a dying woman to topple the Regent from power and nothing more. Despite his claims, people wanted to see the Emperor for themselves. Mobs gathered outside the palace demanding to see him, but Joan would always refuse. While he permitted servants and doctors to see him, as well as those he trusted not to harm the Emperor, he refused to let the common people anywhere near him. He would not put his brother on display, nor allow those who meant him harm anywhere near him. Even with those allowed to see the Emperor stating he was still alive, no one believed them. All of them could be in the Regent's pay or simply loyal to him. Unfortunately this only fanned the flames of the rumour that the Emperor was truly dead.

As the rumour continued to circulate and word of the Empress's tragic death got out, the Crown Prince finally set out from Leon for Valencia. He intended to lay his mother to rest, and more importantly put these rumours to rest. If any one man could prove whether or not the Emperor was dead or alive, it was the Crown Prince. As Ferran made his way to the capital, the city was on edge. The Exercit Valencia was on high alert, watching over the city and keeping the people in line. As for the Regent, Joan grew irritable from the whole affair. His hold on power was being questioned because of some foolish rumours, and no one would trust him when he said that his brother still lived. As the Crown Prince approached the capital, everyone watched to see how events would unfold. Would the Regent find himself forced from power by events he could not control and succession restored, or would the last bit of opposition be removed once and for all.


((And that nearly brings the gap years to an end. Now we have only to settle who shall rule going into Vicky 2. Both the Regent and Crown Prince have a legitimate claim to rule, although each one is dependent on whether or not the Emperor lives. Joan, by law, serves as Regent as long as Pere lives. To defy that would be to go against Hispania's laws, ones set in place by Alfons IX. However, if he is dead, then the Crown Prince would be the next in line and become Emperor, removing the need of a regent. Ultimately, you have to decide who you want in power, but also who you think has the legitimate right to rule based on these conditions. As for the Emperor, think of him as Schrödinger's cat: he is both dead and alive until someone observes him. :D You must gamble on his condition. If the players support the Crown Prince and the Emperor is dead, Joan may find himself in a tough spot and have no choice but to step down. If, however, Pere still lives, Joan may not give up his power so easily. On the other hand, if you support Joan and the Emperor lives, the Crown Prince may just back down. Now if the Emperor is dead, the Crown Prince may just have to press his claim and fight Joan for the right to rule. How this turns out can go either way and may greatly affect Hispania's position at the start of Vicky 2. Now for the vote.

Ruler of Hispania: Regent Joan/Crown Prince Ferran

Players have until Friday at 12PM PST to vote. Please bold your vote. Seeing as we're back to the old voting format, you just need to post one option. As stated before, the stability and instability actions are no longer available.))
 

zenphoenix

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Ruler of Hispania: Crown Prince Ferran

((I can't pass up playing as an Empress.:p))
 

Mach Twelve

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Ruler of Hispania: Regent Joan

((He may not be the Crown Prince, but he has all the keys to actual power. Attempting to remove him will result in absolute chaos if he resists. If we choose wrong, we will pay for it no matter who we support. But supporting him may result in a compromise with Ferran as Emperor and Joan as PM, something that will hopefully avoid civil war. Also, being Joan's #2 is too tempting to pass up.))
 

zenphoenix

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((Did it ever occur to you that you may be next on the chopping block? He's purged the Assembly and part of the Cortz already. It won't be long before the rest of us are next. We have to get rid of him before we all die!

Also, if Pere is still alive, I don't think Joan would appreciate Ferran's power play.))
 

DragonOfAtlantis

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((Well that was dramatic. I honestly have no idea whether to believe the rumors or not so... I'll go with my gut and say that Joan is just trying to hold onto power as best he can for as long as he can.))
Ruler of Hispania: Crown Prince Ferran
 

Mach Twelve

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((Did it ever occur to you that you may be next on the chopping block? He's purged the Assembly and part of the Cortz already. It won't be long before the rest of us are next. We have to get rid of him before we all die!

Also, if Pere is still alive, I don't think Joan would appreciate Ferran's power play.))

((Even Hilter and Stalin, two absolute dictators, needed people to manage their countries, especially army commanders. The one general who has ties to the same faction Joan is in is safe.))
 

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((Even Hilter and Stalin, two absolute dictators, needed people to manage their countries, especially army commanders. The one general who has ties to the same faction Joan is in is safe.))
((Fair enough.))
 

hirahammad

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Ruler of Hispania: Regent Joan

((Real power lies with God alone. :cool: Of course, He doesn't express his power on Earth, instead working through mortals. :rolleyes: The mortal most in favor of God naturally receives, and so the one in control of the Army is the one God desires to rule. Thus, Joan. :D ))
 

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Ruler of Hispania: Crown Prince Ferran

((Prince Ferran will restore the entendimiento mutuo between the Crown and Parliament, and all those who oppose him are rejecting the rightful line of succession, and are traitors of the highest degree.))

((That mutual understanding broke down when the Parliament attempted to abduct the Regent and the Generals. Parliament were the traitors and they got what they deserve. There is no evidence that the Emperor is dead, and until there is Joan is the rightful regent.))