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((Minister Plan

What can I even do? It feels that anything I can do is being increasingly left to a vote instead...))
 
Another expansion of our armed forces is needed. The war against Mutapa brought to light a potential security threat, mainly that when the Exercit Colonial is called upon for colonial wars, India is left undefended. Due to our vast presence there, I believe a second army is necessary, one that should remain there as a defensive force. A new army, called the Exercit India, shall be recruited to serve as that force, allowing for the Exercit Colonial to be able to serve as the expeditionary force in all our colonial conflicts without leaving India vulnerable.

- Prince Joan de Trastámara, Minister of War

* * * * *

Mach Twelve said:
((Minister Plan

What can I even do? It feels that anything I can do is being increasingly left to a vote instead...))
Click to expand...

((Suggest a war or other diplomatic ventures so I don't end up being bored when the rebellion somehow ends after like a year and I have half a decade to do nothing? I had to use our mission as an excuse for war last time because there was nothing to do. :p))

* * * * *

((On to the vote. I don't think there was anything I needed to point out for the laws themselves. The Colonial Reform is merely the request sent by the colonies for the end of tariffs, although they have already agreed to maintain the treasure fleets. You may notice there is nothing for Byzantium. That's because with the passing of the Military Support Act last turn, we are obligated to crush the rebellions. Players can still try to influence the final outcome by attempting to negotiate with the various sides or suggest reforms to the government in Constantinople, otherwise we attempt to end the rebellions and ensure the current government stays in power.

National Census Act: Yes/No/Abstain
War Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Higher Education Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Local Election of Governors Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: Yes/No/Abstain
Free Vote Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Weighted Vote Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Parliament Unification Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Appointed Removal Act: Yes/No/Abstain
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Yes/No/Abstain

Colonial Reform: Yes/No/Abstain

Mission: Butuan/Buton/Abstain

Players will have until Wednesday at 12PM PST to vote. Please bold your votes and include your character's name, class, house, and party.

6mdhu9b.jpg
))
 
National Census Act: Yes
War Act: Abstain
Higher Education Act: Yes
Local Election of Governors Act: Yes
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: Abstain
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: Yes
Free Vote Act: Yes
Weighted Vote Act: Yes
Parliament Unification Act: No
Appointed Removal Act: No
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Yes

Colonial Reform: Yes

Mission: Butuan

~Fernando de Leon
[Landed Noble, Appointed Cortz member, Reconquista Party]

To the leadership of this movement:

As you know, by the terms of the Military Support Act that was signed several years ago, Hispania is obligated to militarily intervene on behalf of the (Eastern) Roman/Greek government in the event of an armed uprising. That means that we are obligated to degrade and destroy your movement. However, I do not believe it would be wise to destroy your organization, for I believe many of your demands are reasonable. The government in Constantinople is weak and prone to frequent rebellions due to the terms imposed by the previous revolutionary uprising, while the revolutionaries currently rampaging through Greece want an even more radical government. Your faction, though, presents a moderate alternative compared to the other two. I would like to hear your demands so that we can come to an agreement on what the next government should be like.

Regards,
Fernando de Leon
 
zenphoenix said:
To the leadership of this movement:

As you know, by the terms of the Military Support Act that was signed several years ago, Hispania is obligated to militarily intervene on behalf of the (Eastern) Roman/Greek government in the event of an armed uprising. That means that we are obligated to degrade and destroy your movement. However, I do not believe it would be wise to destroy your organization, for I believe many of your demands are reasonable. The government in Constantinople is weak and prone to frequent rebellions due to the terms imposed by the previous revolutionary uprising, while the revolutionaries currently rampaging through Greece want an even more radical government. Your faction, though, presents a moderate alternative compared to the other two. I would like to hear your demands so that we can come to an agreement on what the next government should be like.

Regards,
Fernando de Leon
Click to expand...

Our demands are simple. We want a restoration of the old order. The demands of these revolutionaries have weakened Byzantium, and even then these rebels cannot agree on what they want and continue to fight. The only solution is to return to the old system, one that worked for centuries. To allow the current system to continue to exist, or God forbid permit these revolutionaries to continue their dangerous reforms, will only create a continuous cycle of rebellion and dissent. The monarchy must be restored to its former position, not beholden to some parliament filled with nobodies who know nothing of governance. The Legislative Assembly, the abomination that it is, must be dismantled. The Senate, however, may be reformed to turn it into a body for the nobility, those who truly know how to manage affairs of state. We have already shown that we are the only ones that understand the concerns of Byzantium's large Turkish population. Under the old monarchy, they were respected and treated as equal subjects alongside the Greeks. This Revolution must be brought to an end or it will continue to afflict Byzantium with its toxic ideas.

((Decided to call the noble rebels the Restoration Movement, since it fits their goals and makes them seem less like rebels in their own eyes.))
 
Michaelangelo said:
Our demands are simple. We want a restoration of the old order. The demands of these revolutionaries have weakened Byzantium, and even then these rebels cannot agree on what they want and continue to fight. The only solution is to return to the old system, one that worked for centuries. To allow the current system to continue to exist, or God forbid permit these revolutionaries to continue their dangerous reforms, will only create a continuous cycle of rebellion and dissent. The monarchy must be restored to its former position, not beholden to some parliament filled with nobodies who know nothing of governance. The Legislative Assembly, the abomination that it is, must be dismantled. The Senate, however, may be reformed to turn it into a body for the nobility, those who truly know how to manage affairs of state. We have already shown that we are the only ones that understand the concerns of Byzantium's large Turkish population. Under the old monarchy, they were respected and treated as equal subjects alongside the Greeks. This Revolution must be brought to an end or it will continue to afflict Byzantium with its toxic ideas.

((Decided to call the noble rebels the Restoration Movement, since it fits their goals and makes them seem less like rebels in their own eyes.))
Click to expand...
What are your thoughts on a system of government similar to that of Hispania? Would it work out in Constantinople?
 
zenphoenix said:
What are your thoughts on a system of government similar to that of Hispania? Would it work out in Constantinople?
Click to expand...

We see no reason to accept a bicameral system with a house for the non-nobility when those same people have done nothing but cause chaos and misery for Byzantium. We'd be better off with just a noble-dominated Senate and the monarchy, for those two would be free of this foolish revolutionary sentiment. If we were to preserve the Legislative Assembly, it would have to be subservient to both the Senate and the Crown, but it is likely its continued existence would only spur on further troubles for Byzantium.
 
National Census Act: Yes
War Act: No
Higher Education Act: Yes
Local Election of Governors Act: No
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: No
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: No
Free Vote Act: No
Weighted Vote Act: No
Parliament Unification Act: No
Appointed Removal Act: No
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Yes

Colonial Reform: Abstain
Mission: Butuan

((Plan Modification:

Take an opportunistic approach to the nations in the Indonesian islands. If they are weak and we can handle more land, take it. Prioritize trade bonus provinces.))
 
Michaelangelo said:
We see no reason to accept a bicameral system with a house for the non-nobility when those same people have done nothing but cause chaos and misery for Byzantium. We'd be better off with just a noble-dominated Senate and the monarchy, for those two would be free of this foolish revolutionary sentiment. If we were to preserve the Legislative Assembly, it would have to be subservient to both the Senate and the Crown, but it is likely its continued existence would only spur on further troubles for Byzantium.
Click to expand...
It is to my understanding that it was the fact that all power was monopolized by the aristocracy in the old regime which led to the first revolution. The Greek people want representation in their government, and they will keep rebelling until they get it. If you want to return to the old order, then you are only giving the revolutionaries cause for yet another attempt to overthrow the monarchy, and then you might lose everything. None of us want that to happen.

Therefore, I propose the following to satisfy both you and the revolutionaries and prevent further bloodshed. Both houses of the Greek Parliament will remain as they are, with a Senate for nobles and the Legislative Assembly for commoners. The Basileus reserves the right to veto any proposed legislation at will and to appoint a head of government and cabinet. In order for proposed legislation to pass, it must get a simple majority in the Senate and a two-thirds majority in the Legislative Assembly (which would in theory give the Senate more power over lawmaking). All Greeks, Turks, and other non-Greeks will have a number of seats in the Assembly directly proportional to their population sizes. The same goes for Greek, Turkish, and other non-Greek nobles in the Senate. Are these terms acceptable? I can make more accommodations if necessary.
 
zenphoenix said:
It is to my understanding that it was the fact that all power was monopolized by the aristocracy in the old regime which led to the first revolution. The Greek people want representation in their government, and they will keep rebelling until they get it. If you want to return to the old order, then you are only giving the revolutionaries cause for yet another attempt to overthrow the monarchy, and then you might lose everything. None of us want that to happen.

Therefore, I propose the following to satisfy both you and the revolutionaries and prevent further bloodshed. Both houses of the Greek Parliament will remain as they are, with a Senate for nobles and the Legislative Assembly for commoners. The Basileus reserves the right to veto any proposed legislation at will and to appoint a head of government and cabinet. In order for proposed legislation to pass, it must get a simple majority in the Senate and a two-thirds majority in the Legislative Assembly (which would in theory give the Senate more power over lawmaking). All Greeks, Turks, and other non-Greeks will have a number of seats in the Assembly directly proportional to their population sizes. The same goes for Greek, Turkish, and other non-Greek nobles in the Senate. Are these terms acceptable? I can make more accommodations if necessary.
Click to expand...

The aristocracy were not the ones to raise up arms against the legitimate government of Byzantium. If we are to blame, then surely the current government must be toppled and replaced as well, for the current situation is their fault. With that logic, the revolutionaries should just be given power, and then replaced the moment someone even more radical rebels. It is a never ending cycle that will only end if we create a strong government that can crush such radicalism.

You seem to lack an understanding of the government currently in Byzantium. The Senate as it is is not a body for the nobles; in fact, it is an elected body. We intend to change that, and will gladly accept an interpretation where only the nobles may serve on the Senate. We have no qualms with the Basileus being granted more power, provided we are given assurances he will heed our advice. The continuation of the Legislative Assembly is unappealing alone, but a require two-thirds majority for passing votes is madness. Your logic is twisted if you think that gives the Senate more power. All that does is allow peasants to block whatever laws they please, or simply keep most laws from ever passing to create political gridlock. May as well abolish the Parliament all together, for the only way that will function is if the Basileus uses his veto and governs directly. As for representation of Turks, we are not opposed to that. They were treated well under the old order thanks to the nobility, and that shall continue to be the case. Most of the nobility are Greek, but all Byzantines are our subjects.
 
National Census Act: Yes
War Act: No
Higher Education Act: Yes
Local Election of Governors Act: Yes
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: Yes
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: No
Free Vote Act: Yes
Weighted Vote Act: Yes
Parliament Unification Act: No
Appointed Removal Act: No
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Yes

Colonial Reform: Yes

Mission: Butuan

Martí de Alvaro, Grand Duke of Sardinia, Corsica and Albenga, Minister of Finance and member of the Reconquista Party
 
National Census Act: No
War Act: No
Higher Education Act: Yes
Local Election of Governors Act: No
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: No
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: No
Free Vote Act: No
Weighted Vote Act: No
Parliament Unification Act: No
Appointed Removal Act: No(while I am currently leaning toward the phasing out of appointed members of the assembly, this law would be more equitable if it included the Cortz as well )
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Yes

Colonial Reform: Yes


Mission: Buton

Altair Spoleto, count of Cremona, Chamberlain, member of the imperial faction.
 
National Census Act: Abstain
War Act: No
Higher Education Act: Yes
Local Election of Governors Act: Abstain
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: No
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: No
Free Vote Act: Abstain
Weighted Vote Act: Yes
Parliament Unification Act: No
Appointed Removal Act: No
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Abstain

Colonial Reform: Abstain

Mission: Abstain

"The Anti-Legislative Restriction Act restricts the passage of acts which restricts the passage of other acts. So if it passes, it will be considered null and void. When it is null and void, in the state of having been passed, it will then be allowed to exist, until it exists, after which is renders itself null and void. Such a paradox cannot seriously be considered!"

((Can we use VP to secretly support the Restoration movement?))

((Edit: As it is, deciding to rebel, then doing it the same day gives you the same odds as planning it for 40 years, if I correctly understand the rules. o_O If so, that is a problem to me.

I suggest the following: Let there be Bill with 4 VP, 1800 AD. He want to bring in a Glorious Revolution. So, for 1800-1810, he only has 3 VP. +One VP in the plan. For 1810-1820, he has 3 VP. +One VP in the plan. So on, for two more turns. He has siphoned off 4 VP. In 1850, he revolts, with his VP being 8 VP altogether. If he wished, he could have used all 4 VP per turn towards rebellion.

This represents a trade-off. The more you plan, the more ability your political opponents have of passing laws and taking offices. Then, if your revolution fails, you are in a much worse position that otherwise. If it pays off, then good for you. This will allow you to increase chances for the same reward, but if it does fail, you lose much more. :cool:

Each turn, the player notifies Mike of their decision, and we'll take her word that she has saved up X VP. Critiques? :)
))
 
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National Census Act: Yes
War Act: No
Higher Education Act: Yes
Local Election of Governors Act: No
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: No
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: No
Free Vote Act: No
Weighted Vote Act: No
Parliament Unification Act: No
Appointed Removal Act: No
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Yes

Colonial Reform: No


Mission: Butuan

While further codification of our laws is a good thing, the REPEATED attempts to pass laws stricken down with only slight modifications is a waste of our time and a distraction from the true issues. May his Majesty realize this and attempt to reduce these pointless efforts only supported by a CLEAR minority the next time we meet so we may focus our efforts on more current and needed proposals.
 
Michaelangelo said:
The aristocracy were not the ones to raise up arms against the legitimate government of Byzantium. If we are to blame, then surely the current government must be toppled and replaced as well, for the current situation is their fault. With that logic, the revolutionaries should just be given power, and then replaced the moment someone even more radical rebels. It is a never ending cycle that will only end if we create a strong government that can crush such radicalism.

You seem to lack an understanding of the government currently in Byzantium. The Senate as it is is not a body for the nobles; in fact, it is an elected body. We intend to change that, and will gladly accept an interpretation where only the nobles may serve on the Senate. We have no qualms with the Basileus being granted more power, provided we are given assurances he will heed our advice. The continuation of the Legislative Assembly is unappealing alone, but a require two-thirds majority for passing votes is madness. Your logic is twisted if you think that gives the Senate more power. All that does is allow peasants to block whatever laws they please, or simply keep most laws from ever passing to create political gridlock. May as well abolish the Parliament all together, for the only way that will function is if the Basileus uses his veto and governs directly. As for representation of Turks, we are not opposed to that. They were treated well under the old order thanks to the nobility, and that shall continue to be the case. Most of the nobility are Greek, but all Byzantines are our subjects.
Click to expand...
I apologize for any misunderstandings in my previous letter. I now see that my previous proposal hasn't been the most effective one. Therefore, I shall make the following changes:

1. The Legislative Assembly will remain, but as you pointed out, a two-thirds majority is not viable. Instead, all bills must be passed with a simple majority in both houses.

2. Only nobles may serve in the Senate, and the number of senators will be equal to the number of representatives to the Legislative Assembly.

3. Votes in elections will be weighted in favor of nobles. Votes on legislation will be weighted in favor of senators.

4. Safeguards within the next constitution of the Eastern Roman Empire will be written to ensure the continued existence and relevance of the monarchy and the aristocracy while also guaranteeing the basic human rights of the common people; bills may not be passed violating either of these safeguards. This clause will both protect your status as nobles and satisfy demands for popular representation in government.

You must understand that some concessions are necessary so that the radicals do not take offense and try to overthrow the monarchy again. I hope these suggestions are more acceptable.
 
It seems that once again that you face rebellion, this time by two different factions.

While we are obligated to support the standing government, we are always able to use our military power to force a reconciliation with one or both groups.

Last time, we were not able to include you in such plans. This time, however we would consider it. What do you, the Basileus, not the revolutionaries, not the nobles, not the Turks, want his government to be?
 
LostPatriot said:
While further codification of our laws is a good thing, the REPEATED attempts to pass laws stricken down with only slight modifications is a waste of our time and a distraction from the true issues. May his Majesty realize this and attempt to reduce these pointless efforts only supported by a CLEAR minority the next time we meet so we may focus our efforts on more current and needed proposals.
Click to expand...

This so-called 'clear' minority is a majority. The majority of elected seats. If you would substract the votes of the Cortz, the appointed who were against the laws... and not even all of them each time despite being 'negative' for them. These men saw that it is not negative. And the Cortz has an entirely different view on the matter and would prefer to keep privileges, for it is the noble house after all.

All of you should keep in mind the needs and demands of the majority. Should Hispania ignore them like Byzantium did? Certainly, we are more advanced. But time doesn't stop. Some attempt to revert it, as in France. But an idea is not a man. An idea can't be killed. It remains. We should not repeat the mistakes of the past!

((National Census Act: Abstain
War Act: Yes
Higher Education Act: Yes
Local Election of Governors Act: No (it is useless)
Anti-Legislative Restriction Act: Yes
Protocol on the Autonomy of the Italian Provinces: Abstain
Free Vote Act: Yes
Weighted Vote Act: If free fails
Parliament Unification Act: No
Appointed Removal Act: Yes
Amendment to the Inter-Parliamentary Relations Act: Yes

Colonial Reform: Yes

Mission: Butuan))

You are in a precarious situation. But you can count on Hispanian support. I am sure of it, for the government thinks that the Military Support Act forces their hand. Laughable, of course, but I won't intervene to explain the mistake, for they could then take the side of the nobles. They still see Byzantium as some sort of subject. Be it as it is - take advantage of it.
The revolt is due to your non-adherance to revolutionary ideals. Likely this is one cause for the failed referendums. It might seem too late to repair it, but it is not. Equality - for a republic as imagined by the revolution, this should be the foundation. A foundation Byzantium currently lacks. In religious matters, yes, but not for the vote. Replacing a wrong government with another won't save Byzantium, nor free the Greeks from slavery. Shouldn't they never be slaves? My government is perhaps right in still viewing you as their subject. Do you want that? Make the necessary reforms. The principles of the revolution - enforce them. Then the radical elements should be pacifiable, even with the Basileus as your head. The uprising of the nobility offers a chance to disempower them for good. Then your people will be free of oppression. The ideals of the revolution upheld. It is a shame that you weren't able to do it yourself, a shame that brought people on the streets again. But do it, and I see Byzantium as a future Beacon of stability and prosperity. You have a second chance. Use it! For even if Hispania should keep you in power, what kind of power would that be? Hated by most of the population, which will hardly stop resisting? A government by Hispania's grace - wouldn't that merely be another form of vassalage? Where is the freedom?
I will extend a hand to reach towards the radicals. But without the support of this government, it won't be possible. Save your people.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!

We may have averted an intervention in the First Revolution, yet we won't be able to avoid it in this second one. There is an act in Hispania that forces intervention in subject countries - and my government still sees Byzantium as such. But don't let this discourage you from your rightful cause. For it also forces Hispania to move against the oppressive nobles.
Revolutionary ideals have not been followed. I have issued a reminder to the government to reform themselves in accordance to these ideals. Explained why it can't go on like this. As weak, semi-oppressive Hispanian subject. You see it as much as the Hispanian Greeks. Reach out, seek a peaceful solution, finally enforcing the ideals. The Basileus will need to remain where he is - for now. Who knows what the future brings? Would Hispania intervene when a stable ally reforms its government? Look at France - the answer is no. The important reforms can be made immediately, this hated figurehead be relieved of his position later on.
I understand your rightful cause. But the chance of success in this armed uprising is minimal, for there is the 'big brother'. Byzantium is not yet France. The men in power have been with you on the streets not far ago, are driven by a common goal. So speak with them, reach a compromise. For this current government depends on Hispania, and cannot want to keep this status. Equals - among people and states.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!
 
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((Private - Ministry of Justice))​

*Once again suspicious of Faixon's predisposition for praising the Byzantine Revolution, De Salcedo initiates a second investigation into potential links with revolutionary groups and organizations*

((Again, try to find incriminating information.))
 
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