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Empire of the Mediterranean: An Interactive Aragon AAR

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Reckless Fools! Cowards! Pawns of traitors and ne'er-do-wells! You would so readily destroy that which gives the Empire it's might! A pox on you and a plague on your families! May you suffer as the Empire surely will due to your actions!

chosen.

The Assurance of Appointment Act:Yes
Confirmation of the Appointment Replacement Act: No
Speaker of the House Act: No
Cortz Election Act: No
House Composition Act: No
The Reformation of Administration Act:No
Regional Governance Act: No
The Ministry of Espionage Act: No
The Protection of Hispania Act: Yes
Military Support Act: Yes
Amendment to Naval Reform of 1793:Yes
The Free Trade Act: Yes
Protection of the Ruthenian People Act: Yes
Referendum for Hispanian Greeks:Yes

Vote for one or neither:
Federalization of Italy Act: No
Motion to Organize a Federation of the Italian Provinces: No

Amendment to the Motion to Organize a Federation of the Italian Provinces: No

Speaker (Assembly Only): Abstain - It matters not the result for neither will be Speaker.

Greek Revolution: Intervene

Mission: Buhera
 
LostPatriot said:
Reckless Fools! Cowards! Pawns of traitors and ne'er-do-wells! You would so readily destroy that which gives the Empire it's might! A pox on you and a plague on your families! May you suffer as the Empire surely will due to your actions!
Click to expand...

"What exactly are we destroying? After all, this is simply blabber coming your mouth otherwise. Afterall, wouldn't it be wise for us to know our 'mistakes' so we may see our supposed folly?"
 
LostPatriot said:
Reckless Fools! Cowards! Pawns of traitors and ne'er-do-wells! You would so readily destroy that which gives the Empire it's might! A pox on you and a plague on your families! May you suffer as the Empire surely will due to your actions!
Click to expand...

"God gives the Empire its might, and you would do well to never forget that."
 
Michaelangelo said:
We, the members of the Revolutionary Assembly, appreciate your attempts to negotiate a preferable settlement for future relations between our two peoples. If you truly desire for peace, we believe this may go quite smoothly, assuming you are willing to accept our ideals.

We must immediately refute your first argument. You speak of Byzantium as a vassal state. Perhaps the Basileus was happy to sell out his own nation to another, but the Greek people are not. "Protectorate" and "dependent independence" are just fancy terms for slaves and vassals. Byzantium does not need such protection, for we are not weak as we were centuries ago. Our people tire of fighting Hispania's wars without say. We recognize Hispania's contribution to our current strength, but we cannot accept anything less than recognition as equals. We will gladly stand side by side with your people as allies and friends, but never as inferiors again. We are the two inheritors of Rome and should stand together as two equal halves of a whole.

We do not fault you for failing to see the crimes the Basileus has committed. You did not have to live under his reign where farmers were treated worse than their livestock by their lieges, where no one but the nobility had a say in how the country was run. Attempts to reform the system were denied. However, your alternative does have some merit. Toppling a monarchy, no matter their faults, will have repercussions beyond our own borders. We are not completely against the continuation of the monarchy, but only if the monarch is constrained by Parliament. If Hispania believes a Parliamentary or Constitutional Monarchy may be preferable, we are willing to consider. However, current sentiment towards the Basileus is not good and it is unlikely his return to the throne will be taken very well by anyone in Byzantium, regardless of circumstances.

Your suggestions are noted. Of course the establishment of a more permanent government will take some time and must wait for things to calm down. They shall be further considered when the time is right.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!
Click to expand...

I do believe you misunderstand what I mean by 'protectorate' and 'dependent independence'. The Empire is indeed not weak, but as the two coheirs to the legacy of Augustus, it is best if we stand together. By protectorate, I mean under the protection of our military against enemies of your Empire, yet we will not force the your Empire to join our wars, whether in defensive, or offensive circumstances, unless your legislature accepts of course. As well, you will be fully independent in domestic circumstances, as clarified in my definition of 'dependent independence' as I had clearly laid out my meaning within the previous letter.

And believe you misunderstand what I meant by marginalize. The Basileus, under my own suggested system, will still have official powers, but not in a way that can affect the Senate. Rather in a ceremonial role, where he cannot 'enslave' his people again. He, or she, will have a role within the legislature, and will not constrained by Parliament, by his position made insignificant by Parliament, having no true power.

The Countess of Florence
Post Script: These words are of my own
 
Duke Dan "the Man" said:
I do believe you misunderstand what I mean by 'protectorate' and 'dependent independence'. The Empire is indeed not weak, but as the two coheirs to the legacy of Augustus, it is best if we stand together. By protectorate, I mean under the protection of our military against enemies of your Empire, yet we will not force the your Empire to join our wars, whether in defensive, or offensive circumstances, unless your legislature accepts of course. As well, you will be fully independent in domestic circumstances, as clarified in my definition of 'dependent independence' as I had clearly laid out my meaning within the previous letter.

And believe you misunderstand what I meant by marginalize. The Basileus, under my own suggested system, will still have official powers, but not in a way that can affect the Senate. Rather in a ceremonial role, where he cannot 'enslave' his people again. He, or she, will have a role within the legislature, and will not constrained by Parliament, by his position made insignificant by Parliament, having no true power.

The Countess of Florence
Post Script: These words are of my own
Click to expand...

Would we not receive the same protection as allies? And in turn, Hispania would be protected by us. Perhaps you undervalue the Greek people's contribution to your military endeavours, even as we have fought countless wars for you with little thanks. The least we deserve is to be treated as equals. And by equals, we mean a completely independent nation, as you would consider the French or one of your other allies. Granting us control of our own domestic affairs as though it is a gift, despite the fact we already have such a thing, is a meek attempt to fool us into allowing Hispania to continue to control us. We will decide our own fate both internally and on the world stage. Foreign affairs will be conducted from Constantinople from now on, not Valencia. We will accept nothing less.

If he is a mere puppet, a figurehead meant to look pretty and keep the other monarchs of Europe happy, then that would be acceptable. However, as mentioned before, the current Basileus is loathed by many and even reducing him to a fraction of his current power will not win him much support.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!

* * * * *

((I'm going to extend the deadline for the vote by 24 hours to give time to wrap up negotiations. I might then set another vote on the official settlement, since such an agreement would have great importance for everyone.))
 
Michaelangelo said:
Would we not receive the same protection as allies? And in turn, Hispania would be protected by us. Perhaps you undervalue the Greek people's contribution to your military endeavours, even as we have fought countless wars for you with little thanks. The least we deserve is to be treated as equals. And by equals, we mean a completely independent nation, as you would consider the French or one of your other allies. Granting us control of our own domestic affairs as though it is a gift, despite the fact we already have such a thing, is a meek attempt to fool us into allowing Hispania to continue to control us. We will decide our own fate both internally and on the world stage. Foreign affairs will be conducted from Constantinople from now on, not Valencia. We will accept nothing less.

If he is a mere puppet, a figurehead meant to look pretty and keep the other monarchs of Europe happy, then that would be acceptable. However, as mentioned before, the current Basileus is loathed by many and even reducing him to a fraction of his current power will not win him much support.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!
Click to expand...

Aye, you will receive the same protection as allies, but I am simply giving your Parliament the choice of if they wish to help their brothers across the Mediterranean, a power which (unfortunately) is not given to even my Parliament.

With the foreign affairs, I do not think it best for my Empire for this. Perhaps a compromise can be reached, a Byzantine Foreign Ministry can be established, underneath the Hispanian Foreign Ministry. As well, 1/4 of the Hispanian Foreign Ministry is mandated to be filled with Greeks, as your representatives. In exchange for this, perhaps a transfer of Mylasa to direct Byzantine control, as well as the ability for your Parliament to declare war if they wished, without needed consultation of Hispania, although it is request that you do.

And yes, the Basileus is a figurehead, and will have no powers in practice. Keeping him in power is a good compromise from what I can see, between the foreign monarchs, the Byzantine, and even my our Parliament.

Remember, I need to balance both the wishes of Hispania and your own. Perhaps there are some points of mine which is not within your interest, but I still ask you to consider them still, in the sake of the lives which may be lost if war continues forth
The Countess of Florence
 
Duke Dan "the Man" said:
Aye, you will receive the same protection as allies, but I am simply giving your Parliament the choice of if they wish to help their brothers across the Mediterranean, a power which (unfortunately) is not given to even my Parliament.

With the foreign affairs, I do not think it best for my Empire for this. Perhaps a compromise can be reached, a Byzantine Foreign Ministry can be established, underneath the Hispanian Foreign Ministry. As well, 1/4 of the Hispanian Foreign Ministry is mandated to be filled with Greeks, as your representatives. In exchange for this, perhaps a transfer of Mylasa to direct Byzantine control, as well as the ability for your Parliament to declare war if they wished, without needed consultation of Hispania, although it is request that you do.

And yes, the Basileus is a figurehead, and will have no powers in practice. Keeping him in power is a good compromise from what I can see, between the foreign monarchs, the Byzantine, and even my our Parliament.

Remember, I need to balance both the wishes of Hispania and your own. Perhaps there are some points of mine which is not within your interest, but I still ask you to consider them still, in the sake of the lives which may be lost if war continues forth
The Countess of Florence
Click to expand...

Of course it would be best for us to remain your vassals. The slave-owner benefits most when his slaves are obedient and tame. Yet this is not best for Byzantium and the Greek people. You can attempt to tempt us with pathetic bribes, but we will not falter on this. Either we will free as your equals, or you will have to slaughter us all and have no slaves left to do your bidding. Do you so fear us turning against you that you feel that you must keep us on a leash? All that will accomplish is earning the eternal hatred of the Greek people. Let us go our own way and you will gain our gratitude in a way you could never accomplish by force.

Seeing as compromise is needed, we shall concede to allowing the Basileus to remain on his coveted throne as a figurehead, but we will not accept the continued status of inferiority. It is better to lose us as a vassal and gain us as an ally than to ruin all relations that exists between us.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!
 
Michaelangelo said:
Of course it would be best for us to remain your vassals. The slave-owner benefits most when his slaves are obedient and tame. Yet this is not best for Byzantium and the Greek people. You can attempt to tempt us with pathetic bribes, but we will not falter on this. Either we will free as your equals, or you will have to slaughter us all and have no slaves left to do your bidding. Do you so fear us turning against you that you feel that you must keep us on a leash? All that will accomplish is earning the eternal hatred of the Greek people. Let us go our own way and you will gain our gratitude in a way you could never accomplish by force.

Seeing as compromise is needed, we shall concede to allowing the Basileus to remain on his coveted throne as a figurehead, but we will not accept the continued status of inferiority. It is better to lose us as a vassal and gain us as an ally than to ruin all relations that exists between us.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!
Click to expand...
You need to understand my position, I am attempting to find a compromise between your revolutionaries, and my own government, whose own opinions are unknown to myself. This is not bribes I am giving, for my own words are not even those of my government, an attempt to bring about peace.

It is in inferiority I wish for you. You will be an independent nation, but it with a guarantee of sovereignty by Hispania. You stretch or ignore my words that you will not be a vassal or any other of equivalence. It is an easier transition from lack of Foreign Ministry, to one if we start inbetween. Consider

Please, do not let this little roadblock ruin the progress we have made,
The Countess of Florence
 
Duke Dan "the Man" said:
You need to understand my position, I am attempting to find a compromise between your revolutionaries, and my own government, whose own opinions are unknown to myself. This is not bribes I am giving, for my own words are not even those of my government, an attempt to bring about peace.

It is in inferiority I wish for you. You will be an independent nation, but it with a guarantee of sovereignty by Hispania. You stretch or ignore my words that you will not be a vassal or any other of equivalence. It is an easier transition from lack of Foreign Ministry, to one if we start inbetween. Consider

Please, do not let this little roadblock ruin the progress we have made,
The Countess of Florence
Click to expand...

Our entire government is to be made anew. Adding a foreign ministry to that will be one small piece of the whole. You act is though we are incapable of handling such things, as though we know nothing of the world beyond. Does not any nation born from the ashes of another have to start over? How are we any different? We already have a solid base to build off of and an vast empire to draw upon. We are more capable than most. If Hispania feels the need to shackle us so that we do their bidding on the world stage, you will have to march into Constantinople and force us. Perhaps we underestimated your concern for the Greek people. You only care about us as far as it benefits you and only you. We see equal benefit in being allies and do not understand why such a suggestion cannot be considered. We are even willing to put a tyrant back in power, albeit with little power left, as a sign of good faith. Trust us that we shall remain faithful friends without the need to keep us under lock and key or all trust between our two peoples will be lost.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!
 
We should not forget with all that talk of 'innocent relatives', this did happen in our own realm as well with the leaders of the civil war. The son of Montségur was put under house arrest despite clearly lacking the brains to have played a part in any of his father's machinations. Why should we demand from the Greeks to deal with the Basileus' close family in another way should he be found guilty? Do not mention a different treatment of traitors, for the Basileus has been a traitor towards his own people. House arrest is the best choice; neither is the family found guilty, nor does anyone feel that their treatment is too good.

I will then be more precise in the intervention clause - should at least a third of the Parliament they want to institute vote in favour of it, Hispanian observers may roam Byzantium and watch the administration to see if the revolutionary ideals are implemented. Otherwise, Hispania would intervene in cases named by a mutual agreement - I believe we can assemble a list of power abuses by the government, for example overtaxation without fear for state survival, return to serfdom, abolishment of democratic structures, use of force against innocent civilians; this list would determine when both Hispania and the Greek revolution deem an intervention necessary.

This clause should guarantee that there won't be an eruption of chaos in the aftermath, but instead a quick transition of power to this new Byzantium.

It should come as no surprise that within the Hispanian Assembly, there are sympathizers for your cause. Yet naturally, the nobility and royalty of Hispania fears the possible consequences, and these people hold the reins of power in our empire. We are pushing towards non-intervention in your rightful revolution, but in the end we do not have the final word. Whatever terms Hispania might present are always some kind of compromise, a compromise that prevents a military intervention.
I believe the terms are good for a continued close future cooperation of our realms. There are some points that seem to be of critical importance for the leadership of Hispania, and so I advise you to be flexible concerning these.
Mostly, the treatment of the Basileus and his family. There are fears of a show trial that won't stop should only revolutionaries hold this trial. His family should not be punished for mere relation to Ioannes. And there should remain some form of monarchy.
Concerning the Greek territories, we should organize a referendum in the aftermath of the revolution. And should you achieve what you want, then the outcome should be favourable for Byzantium.
Don't put on new chains immediately. Protector of the Greeks is the Emperor's title - that protection can be done in an alliance too as far as I see it. There are other nations better suited to model your parliament after, though you should of course continue to claim to follow the Hispanian model. It has great deficits, and our fight to remove these will take long, I fear. The Basileus' role can be restricted far more as long as you respect these critical matters, and then Hispania might not intervene - and this the best we can bring our monarch to agree to.
May you succeed in breaking your many chains, and be an inspiration to all peoples.
Emiliano Faixòn, Minister of the Interior of Hispania
 
Michaelangelo said:
Our entire government is to be made anew. Adding a foreign ministry to that will be one small piece of the whole. You act is though we are incapable of handling such things, as though we know nothing of the world beyond. Does not any nation born from the ashes of another have to start over? How are we any different? We already have a solid base to build off of and an vast empire to draw upon. We are more capable than most. If Hispania feels the need to shackle us so that we do their bidding on the world stage, you will have to march into Constantinople and force us. Perhaps we underestimated your concern for the Greek people. You only care about us as far as it benefits you and only you. We see equal benefit in being allies and do not understand why such a suggestion cannot be considered. We are even willing to put a tyrant back in power, albeit with little power left, as a sign of good faith. Trust us that we shall remain faithful friends without the need to keep us under lock and key or all trust between our two peoples will be lost.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!
Click to expand...

The proposition I have offered is intended to be a provisional one, with an aim to replace it within a year, or earlier. It simply to organize and transfer anything deemed fitting within your new Ministry. Although I am willing to offer you the Ministry immediately, it is for the sake of throughness of the transfer and establishment that I offer this to you.

I hope I have clarified what I have meant,
The Countess of Florence
 
alscon said:
It should come as no surprise that within the Hispanian Assembly, there are sympathizers for your cause. Yet naturally, the nobility and royalty of Hispania fears the possible consequences, and these people hold the reins of power in our empire. We are pushing towards non-intervention in your rightful revolution, but in the end we do not have the final word. Whatever terms Hispania might present are always some kind of compromise, a compromise that prevents a military intervention.
I believe the terms are good for a continued close future cooperation of our realms. There are some points that seem to be of critical importance for the leadership of Hispania, and so I advise you to be flexible concerning these.
Mostly, the treatment of the Basileus and his family. There are fears of a show trial that won't stop should only revolutionaries hold this trial. His family should not be punished for mere relation to Ioannes. And there should remain some form of monarchy.
Concerning the Greek territories, we should organize a referendum in the aftermath of the revolution. And should you achieve what you want, then the outcome should be favourable for Byzantium.
Don't put on new chains immediately. Protector of the Greeks is the Emperor's title - that protection can be done in an alliance too as far as I see it. There are other nations better suited to model your parliament after, though you should of course continue to claim to follow the Hispanian model. It has great deficits, and our fight to remove these will take long, I fear. The Basileus' role can be restricted far more as long as you respect these critical matters, and then Hispania might not intervene - and this the best we can bring our monarch to agree to.
May you succeed in breaking your many chains, and be an inspiration to all peoples.
Emiliano Faixòn, Minister of the Interior of Hispania
Click to expand...

We would prefer to avoid a military intervention on Hispania's part if necessary, but will not toss aside our ideals for it. We have already taken up arms against the Basileus and we are prepared to do so with Hispania if we must.

We are willing to reconsider the fate of the monarchy and even forgo the trial, but only if the new government ensures the Basileus has little power left. The Parliament shall run Byzantium, not the Basileus.

If you truly intend to carry out these referendums, then we shall respect the decision of the people.

We appreciate all your advice on the matter.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!

Duke Dan "the Man" said:
The proposition I have offered is intended to be a provisional one, with an aim to replace it within a year, or earlier. It simply to organize and transfer anything deemed fitting within your new Ministry. Although I am willing to offer you the Ministry immediately, it is for the sake of throughness of the transfer and establishment that I offer this to you.

I hope I have clarified what I have meant,
The Countess of Florence
Click to expand...

A transitional ministry is an acceptable alternative. We are willing to allow Hispania to continue managing Byzantium's foreign affairs until our new government is established, if that is preferable.

The Greeks shall never be slaves!

* * * * *

A Greek revolutionary arrives in Valencia and stands before Parliament.

I stand before you as an official representative of the Revolutionary Assembly. My fellow members have decided it is time that I be sent to negotiate an official agreement between our two peoples. I have been given full authority by the Revolutionary Assembly to manage all negotiations. My fellow members and I have already began tentative negotiations but have decided it is time to present a revised set of conditions. I thus present the following revised conditions:
  1. An official declaration by His Imperial Highness and the Hispanian Parliament not to intervene in Greek affairs without express permission by the Revolutionary Assembly or any government formed to take its place.
  2. Official recognition by His Imperial Highness and the Hispanian Parliament that all Greek people within Byzantium are rightful citizens of Byzantium and so is the land they possess.
  3. Official recognition by His Imperial Highness and the Hispanian Parliament of Byzantium as a fully independent nation, granted full domestic autonomy and the ability to manage its own foreign affairs.
  4. An official declaration by His Imperial Highness and the Hispanian Parliament to recognize the government formed by the Revolutionary Assembly once the Revolution is successful.
In return, we offering the following revised conditions:
  1. The Revolutionary Assembly and any government formed to take its place officially recognizes the sovereignty of Hispania and her subjects over their own territory and shall refrain from infringing on that right without express permission.
  2. The Revolutionary Assembly and any government formed to take its place commits to allowing advisors chosen by His Imperial Highness and the Hispanian Parliament to assist in the creation of a Hispanian-model Parliament within Byzantium.
  3. The Revolutionary Assembly and any government formed to take its place commits to continuing any agreements created by the old regime between our two nations that does not conflict with the ideals of the Revolution.
  4. The Revolutionary Assembly and any government formed to take its place commits to ensuring positive relations between our two relations and establishing an official military alliance.
  5. The Revolutionary Assembly and any government formed to take its place officially declares that all Hispanians currently within Byzantium shall be granted protection by the current revolutionary government and be allowed free passage out of the country without hindrance. Any prisoners of war captured during the ongoing conflict who are revealed to be Hispanian shall be transferred over to Hispanian care.
  6. The monarchy shall be restored with the Basileus at its head, but shall be subject to the full authority of the future parliament. The Basileus shall consent to the signing of a constitution drafted by the Revolutionary Assembly. If he disagrees to this request, he must abdicate. The royal family shall be forgiven all crimes upon the meeting of this condition.
  7. Until such a time as an official government has been established constituting the new parliament, Hispania shall retain control of Byzantium's foreign affairs. Once the government is officially established, Hispania shall relinquish this privilege.
  8. The Revolutionary Assembly and any government formed to take its place agrees to recognize and submit to the will of the referendum to be held in the Greek lands of Hispania in regards to the fate of the people living there.
To make myself more clear, I shall point out the differences from the last conditions that were sent. The Revolutionary Assembly is willing to consent to the restoration of the monarchy, but only if the Basileus agrees to submit fully to the will of the new parliament and agrees to accept a constitution. The royal family, upon accepting, shall be forgiven all crimes, and thus there will be no need for a trial. The Revolutionary Assembly is also willing to revoke all claims to Athens, Mylasa, and Rhodes if Hispania carries through with its decision to hold a referendum. We shall accept the outcome of this referendum. We are also willing to permit Hispania to continue to control our foreign affairs, but only until our new government is established. Once that is done, we expect Hispania to relinquish that privilege, upon which we shall commit to signing an official military alliance. We hope these concessions are satisfactory. I speak on behalf on my fellow members of the Revolutionary Assembly when I say that we truly do desire for continued relations between our two people. Perhaps many of you view us as rebels and usurpers, but all we want is what is best for the Greek people.

- Alexandros Kapodistrias, Member of the Revolutionary Assembly

((I figured it'd be easier to negotiate this thing if an actual member of the revolution is present. Feel free to ask question or suggest further revisions.))
 
((Preemptive post, sorry for those that saw it early))

"On behalf of the members of the Cortz, we welcome you to Valencia. While I am pleased you are here to negotiate with the Hispanian government, I must make a number of things clear. Hispania does not negotiate with agents of terror, the reason we allow you to speak today is due to the very little blood that has been shed in Byzantium so far. Second, just as there are some items the Revolution refuses to consider, Hispania has some core values which it will refuse to give up. As much as we desire a peaceful ally in Byzantium, any ultimatum presented by the Revolution will be met very poorly.

With this said I must thank you for the consideration you have put into these negotiations, already you have assuaged much of my greatest fears of the aims of your revolution. I, while reluctant to see so much change in such a short period in Byzantium, I believe many of the changes proposed will bring Byzantium into a brighter future, or so I hope. While not necessarily deal breakers for myself, I would like to propose a number of additions that may not have a large impact on your revolution, but will certainly ease the minds of many of the members of the Cortz and Assembly here in Valencia.

1. A guarantee of Military Access for Hispanian troops. Many of our interests lie about the Mediterranean, and while our navy is more than sufficient for transporting Hispanian armies, military access would provide additional tactical options for our generals in wars in Byzantium was not involved, and of course for peacetime redeployment.
2. A guarantee that the new government of Byzantium would not banish Hispanian merchants. Trade is the lifeblood of Hispania, and while of course we would recognize Byzantium trade laws, Hispanian merchants must be able to trade in Byzantium. Similarly, it would certainly aid relations if the new government would continue to transfer its trade power to Hispania, a deal could perhaps be arranged between your new trade minister to determine an appropriate reimbursement.
3. Full amnesty for any soldiers currently in the Byzantium military, absent any clearly abhorrent acts. Any trials for Byzantium troops accused of crimes against the Revolution will be tried by Hispanian judges.

These are relatively simple matters, but both would help foster the bonds of friendship between our two nations and reassure many members of the good intentions of the Revolution. Please communicate with your leaders back in Byzantium and let me know of your thoughts the these proposals with haste."

Altair Spoleto
 
Last edited:
The Assurance of Appointment Act:Yes
Confirmation of the Appointment Replacement Act: No
Speaker of the House Act: No
Cortz Election Act: No
House Composition Act: No
The Reformation of Administration Act:Yes
Regional Governance Act: Yes
The Ministry of Espionage Act: no
The Protection of Hispania Act: Yes
Military Support Act: Yes
Amendment to Naval Reform of 1793:Yes
The Free Trade Act: Abstain
Protection of the Ruthenian People Act: Yes
Referendum for Hispanian Greeks:Yes

Vote for one or neither:
Federalization of Italy Act: Yes
Motion to Organize a Federation of the Italian Provinces: No

Amendment to the Motion to Organize a Federation of the Italian Provinces: No

Speaker (Assembly Only): (not applicable)

Greek Revolution: Intervene

Mission: Trade

~Fernando de Leon
(Cortz member, landed noble, general, Reconquista Party)
 
texasjoshua said:
((Preemptive post, sorry for those that saw it early))

"On behalf of the members of the Cortz, we welcome you to Valencia. While I am pleased you are here to negotiate with the Hispanian government, I must make a number of things clear. Hispania does not negotiate with agents of terror, the reason we allow you to speak today is due to the very little blood that has been shed in Byzantium so far. Second, just as there are some items the Revolution refuses to consider, Hispania has some core values which it will refuse to give up. As much as we desire a peaceful ally in Byzantium, any ultimatum presented by the Revolution will be met very poorly.

With this said I must thank you for the consideration you have put into these negotiations, already you have assuaged much of my greatest fears of the aims of your revolution. I, while reluctant to see so much change in such a short period in Byzantium, I believe many of the changes proposed will bring Byzantium into a brighter future, or so I hope. While not necessarily deal breakers for myself, I would like to propose a number of additions that may not have a large impact on your revolution, but will certainly ease the minds of many of the members of the Cortz and Assembly here in Valencia.

1. A guarantee of Military Access for Hispanian troops. Many of our interests lie about the Mediterranean, and while our navy is more than sufficient for transporting Hispanian armies, military access would provide additional tactical options for our generals in wars in Byzantium was not involved, and of course for peacetime redeployment.
2. A guarantee that the new government of Byzantium would not banish Hispanian merchants. Trade is the lifeblood of Hispania, and while of course we would recognize Byzantium trade laws, Hispanian merchants must be able to trade in Byzantium. Similarly, it would certainly aid relations if the new government would continue to transfer its trade power to Hispania, a deal could perhaps be arranged between your new trade minister to determine an appropriate reimbursement.
3. Full amnesty for any soldiers currently in the Byzantium military, absent any clearly abhorrent acts. Any trials for Byzantium troops accused of crimes against the Revolution will be tried by Hispanian judges.

These are relatively simple matters, but both would help foster the bonds of friendship between our two nations and reassure many members of the good intentions of the Revolution. Please communicate with your leaders back in Byzantium and let me know of your thoughts the these proposals with haste."

Altair Spoleto
Click to expand...

"I would to discuss my own opinions on the three points. Point 1 is clearly reasonable, perhaps it doesn't even go far enough. I would have included fleet basing rights with our Imperial brothers, as well as a giving these rights to the Byzantine in the event we are both belligerent in wars. Point 2, however, is misleading. You are implying that we should hold our brothers to the same standard of heathens. I trust in these revolutionaries to govern in a way befitting a righteous, civilized and Christian nation. They are no Mohammedans. As to your 3rd point. I agree in part of this. A full and complete amnesty of those within the Byzantine military is reasonable in my opinion. What isn't reasonable, as I believe, is the trials of those against the revolution in Hispania, of which I assume in Hispanian law. They are Byzantine citizens, and should be tried by Byzantine judges and law."
 
((Public))
Alexandros Kapodistrias, so that the new government in Constantinople and Hispania may always be friends, consider the following: The Greek State may not ally Hispanian rivals, or rival Hispanian allies, and the Hispanian state may not rival Greek allies, nor ally Greek rivals."

(( @Michaelangelo , for the new state, I suggest the head of state be entitled "-of the Greeks", rather than "-of Greece/Byzantium." This is popular monarchy nomenclature, currently in use in Belgium, and also used by Louis XVI during the short-lived constitutional Kingdom of France. It seems fitting. ;) ))

((Private-Altair Spoleto @texasjoshua ))
"And of course, Mozzarella..."

"Mozzarella goes well with Sicilian green olives. Though, in my humble opinion, Thrubolea olives are unbeatable. Delicious!", said a hooded man as he approached, "But enough of food, come." He led Altair through a seemingly endless maze of corridors, and eventually Altai was seated opposite another similarly hooded man.

"Welcome, Altair Spoleto, Count of Cremona. You may be wondering why we have called you here. First, you must know who we are. We work in the shadows to protect the light. We stand for truth, justice, and the Hispanian way. We will uphold society at all cost. We protect the establishment of the Empire and Emperor against those who would wish to destroy. We are the bastions of the defense against the Phoenix hordes. We are the Illuminati.

Tell me, who are you?"
 
texasjoshua said:
((Preemptive post, sorry for those that saw it early))

"On behalf of the members of the Cortz, we welcome you to Valencia. While I am pleased you are here to negotiate with the Hispanian government, I must make a number of things clear. Hispania does not negotiate with agents of terror, the reason we allow you to speak today is due to the very little blood that has been shed in Byzantium so far. Second, just as there are some items the Revolution refuses to consider, Hispania has some core values which it will refuse to give up. As much as we desire a peaceful ally in Byzantium, any ultimatum presented by the Revolution will be met very poorly.

With this said I must thank you for the consideration you have put into these negotiations, already you have assuaged much of my greatest fears of the aims of your revolution. I, while reluctant to see so much change in such a short period in Byzantium, I believe many of the changes proposed will bring Byzantium into a brighter future, or so I hope. While not necessarily deal breakers for myself, I would like to propose a number of additions that may not have a large impact on your revolution, but will certainly ease the minds of many of the members of the Cortz and Assembly here in Valencia.

1. A guarantee of Military Access for Hispanian troops. Many of our interests lie about the Mediterranean, and while our navy is more than sufficient for transporting Hispanian armies, military access would provide additional tactical options for our generals in wars in Byzantium was not involved, and of course for peacetime redeployment.
2. A guarantee that the new government of Byzantium would not banish Hispanian merchants. Trade is the lifeblood of Hispania, and while of course we would recognize Byzantium trade laws, Hispanian merchants must be able to trade in Byzantium. Similarly, it would certainly aid relations if the new government would continue to transfer its trade power to Hispania, a deal could perhaps be arranged between your new trade minister to determine an appropriate reimbursement.
3. Full amnesty for any soldiers currently in the Byzantium military, absent any clearly abhorrent acts. Any trials for Byzantium troops accused of crimes against the Revolution will be tried by Hispanian judges.

These are relatively simple matters, but both would help foster the bonds of friendship between our two nations and reassure many members of the good intentions of the Revolution. Please communicate with your leaders back in Byzantium and let me know of your thoughts the these proposals with haste."

Altair Spoleto
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Duke Dan `the Man` said:
"I would to discuss my own opinions on the three points. Point 1 is clearly reasonable, perhaps it doesn't even go far enough. I would have included fleet basing rights with our Imperial brothers, as well as a giving these rights to the Byzantine in the event we are both belligerent in wars. Point 2, however, is misleading. You are implying that we should hold our brothers to the same standard of heathens. I trust in these revolutionaries to govern in a way befitting a righteous, civilized and Christian nation. They are no Mohammedans. As to your 3rd point. I agree in part of this. A full and complete amnesty of those within the Byzantine military is reasonable in my opinion. What isn't reasonable, as I believe, is the trials of those against the revolution in Hispania, of which I assume in Hispanian law. They are Byzantine citizens, and should be tried by Byzantine judges and law."
Click to expand...

hirahammad said:
((Public))
Alexandros Kapodistrias, so that the new government in Constantinople and Hispania may always be friends, consider the following: The Greek State may not ally Hispanian rivals, or rival Hispanian allies, and the Hispanian state may not rival Greek allies, nor ally Greek rivals."

(( @Michaelangelo , for the new state, I suggest the head of state be entitled "-of the Greeks", rather than "-of Greece/Byzantium." This is popular monarchy nomenclature, currently in use in Belgium, and also used by Louis XVI during the short-lived constitutional Kingdom of France. It seems fitting. ;) ))
Click to expand...

We had treated military access and trade agreements as falling under the condition where we respect existing agreements between our two nations, but we shall ensure that is further clarified in any final arrangement. We have no qualms with granting military access to Hispanian troops and vice-versa, for such an agreement is fitting for allies. Trade shall be conducted as usual.

The wise countess is right in regards to trade. We will not accept such a degrading agreement. There currently exists no agreement where Byzantium is required to ensure a certain amount of its trade goes to Hispania. If such a thing exists, it is a byproduct of being a vassal, and thus must be dispensed with. It should be clear that my fellow members of the Revolutionary Assembly will not accept conditions that place Byzantium in place as an inferior, and being forced to fill a trade quote with you would fit that. Hispania shall be free to trade with us and us with them, but that will be it.

I do not see any problem with granting soldiers amnesty if they agree to lay down their arms. I cannot, however, agree to allow any Greek to be tried in a foreign court. Either way, it does not matter. If they are granted amnesty, they cannot be tried anyway. For those rare cases that do require a trial, those you have called "abhorent acts", then I would imagine the sentence would be clear to any judge in the civilized world. I see no need for us to place these men before a Hispanian judge instead of a Greek one.

As for this matter of Hispania's concern that we may consider their friends our enemies or their enemies our friends, we will of course respect Hispania's wishes to ensure good relations between us. Due to our long history, I do not expect our foreign ministry to make such decisions. ((I can't control if the AI does ally our rivals or rival our allies, but I can probably change that after the fact by console or event.))

- Alexandros Kapodistrias, Member of the Revolutionary Assembly
 
((Revolutionary Negotiations))

"These modifications I find suitable. In regards to trade I am not well informed of the specifics of trade in Byzantium, the maintenance of current trade deals I will find plenty sufficient. The trial of extreme cases in Byzantine courts will be acceptable as long as a general amnesty is issued. With this discussed I cannot think of any further qualms I would have with accepting all parts of these negotiations."

((Sketchy Meeting))

*Eyes the Illuminati Representative Suspiciously, but with interest*

"You, of course, have seen my work within the Cortz. I certainly find many of the bills and laws the Phoenixes put forward suspect. I believe in the power of the emperor and centralization under him, but I also believe in the Power of the Cortz and the Assembly. It takes many men to make the empire work. I of course must ask you, why ask me here, and what is the purpose of your organization?"
 
hirahammad said:
(( @Michaelangelo , for the new state, I suggest the head of state be entitled "-of the Greeks", rather than "-of Greece/Byzantium." This is popular monarchy nomenclature, currently in use in Belgium, and also used by Louis XVI during the short-lived constitutional Kingdom of France. It seems fitting. ;) ))
Click to expand...
((@Michaelangelo, How about "Emperor of the Romans"? That was the official title of the Byzantine rulers in real life, I think.))
 
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