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MacGowan

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I'll answer the question and posts in the next MID-WEEK Q&A, but I have a quick question:

Who should be in the People of importance (1914) Appendix?
I'm trying to keep it to under 5 people per country. here's the current list so far:

BRITAIN:
  • His Majesty, King George V
  • Prime Minister, H.H Asquith
  • Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Lloyd George
  • First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill
  • Field Marshal Herbert Kitchener

FRANCE:
  • President, Raymond Poincaré:
  • Prime Minister, René Viviani:
  • Former-Prime Minister, Georges Clemenceau:
  • Commander-in-Chief, General Joseph Joffre:

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY:
  • Emperor Franz Joseph I
  • Archduke Franz Ferdinand (DECEASED)
  • Foreign Minister, Leopold Berchtold
  • General Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf

GERMANY:

  • Kaiser Wilhelm II
  • Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg

I could add Petain and Foch for France, but at the start of the war they weren't that big. same with Hindenburg and Ludendorff. Who even knows what will happen to them in This TimeLine.

I'll do a few more countries, such as Russia, Italy, and one more?



 

TheButterflyComposer

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I'm trying to keep it to under 5 people per country
That's fair enough, especially as we really don't know who is going to end up being critical to the war aside from the people in charge at the very start...

  • His Majesty, King George V
  • Prime Minister, H.H Asquith
  • Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Lloyd George
  • First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill
  • Field Marshal Herbert Kitchener
I think this is a pretty good list. We have the two main politicians on the war, the king, and the two most significant military leaders who are definitely going to have an impact. Fisher could easily find his way onto the list, but only if the war office goes along with his Baltic campaign. French on the other hand probably should be on the list, because if anyone is going to get in the way of Kitchener doing sensible things outside of France, it's him. Then again, if he gets shouted down then he won't be as important...for 1914 anyway. If the Army gets any bigger (and it really does need to) or gets stuck on an important front, he'll probably be in charge of it.

  • President, Raymond Poincaré:
  • Prime Minister, René Viviani:
  • Former-Prime Minister, Georges Clemenceau:
  • Commander-in-Chief, General Joseph Joffre:
I think this is all quite fair. I would perhaps discuss the Dreyfus affair and how much it shat up the French military and political command in the first decade of the 20th c and revealed what a horrible place the country was in at the time.

  • Emperor Franz Joseph I
  • Archduke Franz Ferdinand (DECEASED)
  • Foreign Minister, Leopold Berchtold
  • General Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf
These are all very important guys yes. Especially the last one.

  • Kaiser Wilhelm II
  • Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg
I suppose the admiral of the high seas fleet, whomever that is going to be in this time line, should be there because whether they do well or do poorly, they could certainly change the war quite a bit anywhichway.

I'll do a few more countries, such as Russia, Italy, and one more?
Italy is a difficult one to include, because you never know when they will join in. The Ottomans certainly should be there though, because they were always going to be joining the central powers in a war against Russia. You might want to include Belgium though, because they are going to become critical very early on and stay that way for 1914, unless they are completely overrun (in which case, also important because UK will have to deploy something to France). Unless the Germans don't or delay their invasion plan of course, but that again is significant enough to give the Belgians a tab.
 

J_Master

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For Germany I would include Von Molkte since he is the chief of staff. He is the one calling the shots on how the Germans are going to fight the war, at least untill the AI switches him out for Von Falkenhayn
 

Specialist290

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Seconding von Moltke, and adding a suggestion of my own for Alfred von Tirpitz, State Secretary of the Imperial German Navy, on similar grounds as @TheButterflyComposer's suggestion -- while Tirpitz himself is probably too highly placed to serve as a fleet commander, his policies are ultimately going to set the High Seas Fleet's terms of engagement.
 

stnylan

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British government at this time certainly had no shortage of egos, starting with the irascible Welshman. I've always felt sort of sympathetic to Asquith trying to manage the likes of Fisher, Kitchener, Churchill, Lloyd George, et al.
 

El Pip

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Italy is a difficult one to include, because you never know when they will join in. The Ottomans certainly should be there though, because they were always going to be joining the central powers in a war against Russia. You might want to include Belgium though, because they are going to become critical very early on and stay that way for 1914, unless they are completely overrun (in which case, also important because UK will have to deploy something to France). Unless the Germans don't or delay their invasion plan of course, but that again is significant enough to give the Belgians a tab.
Italy should be on the list of importance because deciding if they join or not is, in itself, very important. So the people who are making that decision are of interest. As a first stab you'd want;
  • Victor Emmanuel II
  • Prime Minister Antonio Salandra
  • Foreign Minister Antonino Castello
  • Marshal Luigi Cadorna
  • Ex-PM Giovanni Giolitti
Last one is a bit speculative, but brings some balance. He was still well respected, arguably hand picked Salandra as his successor but was one of the main voices in favour of neutrality when much of the government (as opposed to parliament) wanted to join the war.

Conversely while Belgium the country matters strategically (is it invaded, does that compel Britain to war, etc) I must be brutal and say no-one in Belgium should be on the list of important people. Their role is to get an unacceptable demand from Germany to allow German troops through (Which I think was sent after the troops had started moving) and then be dragged into a war. Unless they are going to reject the German demand and so de-facto join the Central Powers (never going to happen) nothing they say or do really has any impact.

Ditto the Ottomans not getting a tab, they were committed to joining the Central Powers long before war broke out as I understand it. So they aren't making decisions or having a debate, just executing existing plans.

Obviously if you have unlimited time then tabs on everyone is possible, but if you want to keep the scope manageable then a bit of hardnosed honesty is required.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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So Italy in.

Not sure who else. The dutch have no reason to join, same for most of scandinavia. Spain might, but won't add much unless they join germany. That's most in europe.
Japan is going to join UK. China is mostly irrelevant. There is much to be said of the British dominions reactions to the war but maybe another time...

Umm...the US? Maybe? It's not as critical as ww2 but there was a lot of trade and communication between them and the british, and the British cut the Germans line out so they only got one side. Some of the worst bits of Versailles came from Wilson's really insane policies, and if Amercia joins it's sort of an instant win condition. But when and how do they join?

Idk, this might be more useful in 1915, when the US is firmly pro-entente
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Looks good. Should probably do one for every year I think. But these are going to be the main players at least until Christmas.
 

MacGowan

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JULY 14 - JULY 21, 1914

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY DELIVERS ULTIMATUM TO SERBIA

"Point 6: The Serbian government should bring to trial all accessories to the Archduke's assassination and allow Austro-Hungarian law enforcement officers to take part in the investigations."

- Austro-Hungarian letter to Serbia -





Visegrad, Austria-Hungary


“So this is where I leave you, boys,” Ljubivoje said as they entered the idyllic town of Visegrad.

The houses lay there so tranquil, as if asleep, surrounded by the majestic green hills, accessible through the old bridge stretching across the river Danube.

Vlad could finally breathe a sigh of relief

He and Bete had barely escaped arrest by the police force in Sarajevo a few weeks back. Bete had grabbed him and pushed him out of the rear window only moments before the police kicked in the front door.

With nothing but the clothes on their back they had trekked East, as Bete remembered the address of the crooks that had smuggled them into the country. The brothers then managed to sneak out as the riots turned into a massive manhunt for every Slav left in the city.

This was not enough for the Austro-Hungarians though. They cracked down hard on the radicals and their smuggler routes. Soldiers had showed up mere minutes before Vlad and Bete. They dragged the crooks out into the street, beat them, and threw them in jail.

It had been a torturous walk East after that.

Bete was chancing on the farmers in the neighboring village still being loyal to the cause.
It took them forever to reach it, and by that time the brothers were both starving and dehydrated.

It was by the grace of God that a farmer by the name of Ljubivoje had found the two exhausted Serbs on the side of the road and taken them in.
‘Sons of Kosovo.’ he had called them, while offering them his finest food and a bottle of wine. Then he cried in front of them as he told them the story of what the soldiers had done to his family. Vlad cried too.

Now with the help of Ljubivoje they had made their slow way towards the border of Serbia; back to their homeland.

“We should have been here a week ago.” Bete whispered to Vlad. “The old man took his fucking time.”

Vlad kicked him in the shins in return, still smiling and nodding to Ljubivoje.

“You have been nothing but the best of help.” Vlad said, shaking the farmer’s hand. “I wish you a speedy return.”

“Get home safe, and fight the good fight, boys.”
Ljubivoje replied. “There’s a terrible storm coming, and Serbia will need all of her sons.”







-------------------------------------------------


London, England


“Have you slept at all, sir?”

“Cecil.”

John smiled nervously in response, before handing the jittery General a cup of Earl Grey tea.
The man had obviously not been home for the night.

“I read that the bloody Mexicans are at it again.” John said as he lifted his own cup in unison.


THE MEXICAN CIVIL WAR:
“Ah!” Cecil exlaimed. "The Mexican Revolution is as complex it is heinous.

I honestly don’t have enough information for you, old chap. Not at this present time, but it does appear their President’s days are numbered.

Revolutionaries such as Poncho Villa have captured several important territories, and they’re making a hard push. Remind me to get you the dossier on this. It might not be of much interest, but you can never be too sure, they did murder the Emperor’s brother.”

“Terrible ordeal,”
John announced, and sipped his tea.​


ITALY AND THE LIBYAN ISSUE:
“This one, however, is a tad bit closer to home.”

“North Africa, sir?”
John looked up at the map. Libya lay wedged in between French and British territories.​

"The war against the Ottoman Empire was not the glorious invasion the Italians expected it to be. Their large army was stalemated for a year by a few thousand Turks and some local lads.

When they finally did manage to push the Turks out, it left them with a bit of a mess on their hands.”

Cecil picked up his red yarn, and tore off a string. Then he walked over to the map and tied it from Italy to Libya.

Oh, you know, Captain. Africa is rebellious. Tribesmen in Libya have clashed with the Italian troops for years, and this week they shot and killed 100 Arabs in a battle in the Fezzan Region.”

“Not to mention the general strike in Italy last month.”
John interrupted.​

“Ah, yes. Leftists fighting in the streets before the Italian Army brought in thousands of men to forcefully restore order.
It’s a new dawn, Captain Robertson. An era of riots and protests.”



THE ROYAL NAVY INSPECTION:
“With this small chaff out of the way, we can focus on what is really of importance! The home front!
We are rather fortunate that the British fleet mobilized to Spithead for the inspection of His Majesty, this week. I believe that the First Lord of Admiralty, Winston Churchill is using this as an excuse to re-organize and re-deploy the fleet to counter the German threat. We’ll need those heavy hitters to force their fleet to stay at port.”


“In Wilhelmshaven?”
John asked.​

Cecil ignored him.


IRISH HOME RULE CONFERENCE AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE:
“Right-o” He slammed a large dossier down on the desk, on the front it read ‘Ireland.’

“Now this one is a bloody ordeal.

His Majesty summoned a conference to discuss the Irish Home Rule situation. Irish Nationalists and Irish Unionists are meeting at the Royal Palace for a three-day peace conference. The Prime Minister is there also, with the Speaker of the House of Commons overseeing it.

A tall list of names, old sport, and as far as I can tell, it’s going absolutely nowhere.


SERBIAN PRIME MINISTER RESPONSE TO RUMORS:
“And at long last, we arrive at the meat of the matter: The Balkans, where the hammer will strike.

Early this week, in response to rumors of an Austro-Hungarian ultimatum, Serbian Prime Minister Nikola Pašić told the journalists that he will never accept any measures that will compromise Serbian sovereignty. Oh, how foolish of him.


AUSTRIA-HUNGARY DELIVERS ULTIMATUM:
This arrived yesterday: The Austro-Hungarian minister at Belgrade, presented the ultimatum to the minister for foreign affairs in Serbia.

We do not know the content of said letter, however we have reasons to believe it very much compromises Serbia’s sovereignty, or at the least is close enough to render it impossible to accept.”

“Oh, dear.”
John gasped. “What about the government? What are we doing to prevent this?”

“Hah!” Cecil muttered in his usual manner. “We are running about the place like headless chickens, dear boy.


FOREIGN SECRETARY SIR EDWARD GREY OFFERS TO MEDIATE:
The British cabinet, after receiving the news, held a meeting in London, the very same that is being devoted to the Irish Rule conference.

In an attempt to stem the tide of emerging war, the Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey offered to Russia and Germany to mediate a discussion that should influence Austria-Hungary to back off on Serbia while allowing each nation to save face.”

John lit up. “Well that’s something!”

“Grey met with the Russian Ambassador who warned that such a conference might actually break our informal triple alliance, or Entente, as the French call it.”

“Oui, oui,” John jested.

Cecil shot him a stern look.
”However… The Russian Foreign Minister accepted Grey’s proposal for a conference despite his reservations about this.”

“So there is hope.”

He sighed.
“Kaiser Wilhelm was not so kind. He rejected Grey’s ‘condescending orders’. Claiming ignorance of the Austrian ultimatum. Germany regards Austro-Serbian relations as ‘an internal affair of Austria-Hungary’, in which they have no standing to intervene.

Cheeky little liars. Aren’t they?” Cecil picked up a red flag from his box and pierced it into the map. Straight into the heart of Berlin.

“So what are we to do now?” John said.

“Well,” He gazed upon the map. His figure appearing small and fragile. “We wait, and we pray.”






-------------------------------------------------​

Manchester, England

The tube scrapped against the back of her throat. Three nurses held her down as the doctor forced the thick rubber inside her.

“Alice, do we have to go through this every single time?” Doctor Franklin said, in a manner akin to that of a tired father lecturing an insolent child.

She made pathetic sounds of terror in response.

The prison had been her home for 6 agonising months now. They had arrested her 5 times on accounts of vandalizing government buildings. There had been three of them: Alice, Marianne, and Martha. Protesters turned inhabitants of the same address: Strangeways Prison.

“This time you best keep it down, Alice.” Doctor Franklin said as he signaled to the nurse to start pumping the food into her stomach.

She closed her eyes and tried to dream of her childhood home, of the garden in the backyard that lead to the swing on the hill. Where the majestic Oak tree stood stretching out into the blue summer skies. Where her sister had once told her about how wonderful men can be, and where babies come from.

She wondered how clean that tube really was and who it had been in before her.

“If you would simply eat the food provided to you. By the prison. Like a reasonable adult. Alice.”
Doctor Franklin complained as he kept preventing the tube from escaping her.

She looked up at him, tears running down her face.

He looked back down at her with pity and disappointment in his eyes.

“I’m doing my job, Alice,” he said. “What on earth are you ladies hoping to achieve with this nonsense?”






 
Last edited:

TheButterflyComposer

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AUSTRIA-HUNGARY DELIVERS ULTIMATUM TO SERBIA
Here we go...

“I read that the bloody Mexicans are at it again.” John said as he lifted his own cup in unison.
"Ah yes, Mexico. Clearly the most important issue of the moment."
"Well, it may affect Amercian policy when and if the government changes-"
"Yes, and when the fate of the world rests with them that would matter. Since Europe going under is not their problem and not their concern, the closest thing this situation has to a powerful observer is us! And we most certainly have to get involved at some point."
"Yes sir."
"Oh...go get me more coffee or something boy. And a better file."

“North Africa, sir?” John looked up at the map. Libya was squeezed in between French and British territories.
"You continue to dazzle me with irrelevance. What on earth does Italy have to do with anything?"
"Well, they are part of a war agreement with Germany and Austria sir."
"Yes and I'm sure they're just gagging to fight for the Austrians in order to expand their balkan empire. Don't talk rubbish."
"But...well, they don't like the french either. Sir."
"Which is why they're probably going to sit the whole match out then try to join the winning party afterwards. Very fickle those italians. Plus with crisis at home and away they really can't get involved this year at least."
"Might prove useful later though?"
"Perhaps. Alright then, get rid."

“Not to mention the general strike in Italy last month.” John interrupted.

“Ah, yes. Leftists fighting in the streets before the Italian Army brought in thousands of men to forcefully restore order.
It’s a new dawn, Captain Robertson. An era of riots and protests.”
"Don't we have a miner problem too?"
"Er...yes, but don't tell anyone. We're hoping we can lump it in with the irish national crisis and get the two over with at the same time."
"That...doesn't make-"
"Next!"

I believe that the First Lord of Admiralty, Winston Churchill is using this as an excuse to re-organize and re-deploy the fleet to counter the German threat. We’ll need those heavy hitters to force their fleet to stay at port.”
"So the fleet will be ready at least. Good news sir."
"Good news? Well I suppose so, if you are a blithering idiot. They still have no plan for what to do with the navy, same as the army. Bloody disgrace how we're steaming ahead eith prepping for a war when we have no clue of what to do when the fighting happens except effectively invade france and see what happens."
"Well if it works-"
"If it works? Are you a complete fool, or did you not go to university, either of them? We have never won a war on the continent in the past hundred years by flat out invasion. We don't have the temperment or the focus on land to pull it off. We've either used economic and naval warfare or surgically struck with a naval landing and gotten land powers to back us up with way more troops than we have."
"Um...I don't think that's quite-"
"Are you saying Whig History is inaccurate? Get out!'
"But sir-"
"Out! Before I set fire to you! Bloody woolly liberals!"

The British cabinet, after receiving the news, held a meeting in London, the very same that is being devoted to the Irish Rule conference.
"Exactly as planned. Although for the life of me I can't understand why we don't just give them dominion status and force them to have a secular government."

“Grey met with the Russian Ambassador who warned that such a conference might actually break our informal triple alliance, or Entente, as the French call it.”
“Kaiser Wilhelm was not so kind. He rejected Grey’s ‘condescending orders’. Claiming ignorance of the Austrian ultimatum. Germany regards Austro-Serbian relations as ‘an internal affair of Austria-Hungary’, in which they have no standing to intervene.
"Bugger. That's problematic. At the very least this means Russia is commited to the Alliance (or desperately needs it) and Germany is commited to fighting us. Better start planning ways to take them out. They're going to be the only competent enemy in thos war."
"So...what does that mean?"
"I don't really know. We have the only professional army in Europe but that also makes it the smallest. We can't beat Germany going through small and expected land routes. Besides, the french are going to try that which means it's probably wrong."
"Naval invasion then?"
"I guess. Who are you anyway? I'd probably know but I'm smashed out of my mind at the moment. My aide just left me for a liberal."
"My sympathies. My name is Fisher and I have a mad dab scheme for you..."

“I’m doing my job, Alice,” he said. “What on earth are you ladies hoping to achieve with this nonsense?”
I should think that would be obvious given how they scream it loud and wear it on ribbons. Votes for Women!
 

El Pip

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I should think that would be obvious given how they scream it loud and wear it on ribbons. Votes for Women!
That is just cover, she is in fact a German agent sent to bring down the Empire from the inside. Having lost her cyanide pill she is attempting to starve herself to death in the name of her beloved Kaiser, luckily they have seen through her facade and are feeding her until she breaks and exposes her fellow traitors.


It probably isn't that, but it would be so much more interesting if it was.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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That is just cover, she is in fact a German agent sent to bring down the Empire from the inside. Having lost her cyanide pill she is attempting to starve herself to death in the name of her beloved Kaiser, luckily they have seen through her facade and are feeding her until she breaks and exposes her fellow traitors.


It probably isn't that, but it would be so much more interesting if it was.
I mean, it becomes a little less disturbing and a little more funny, if it isn't some backwards condescending patriarchal doctor but in fact a British intelligence agent who knows how awful German intelligence is and how foolish it is to try and spy for them in either world war. I mean...dear me, they weren't very good. Especially in the second one where I think the British found out afterwards they had managed to turn every German agent in the U.K. double.
 

Eranu89

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This is great! Real time is a major undertaking too. Best of luck, I'll be following.
 

MacGowan

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MID WEEK Q&A

The Central Powers, Germany especially, are overpowered in the 1914 scenario.
Interesting. A somewhat OP Germany could be good as the AI can be a bit handicap.
But, that never includes a UK actively in the land war in Europe.
Understood. Yes we are very capable of bringing in plenty of Commonwealth divisions.
Germany is actually capable of doing the other alternatives besides the historical "limited Von Schlieffen". I've seen them do a full Von Schlieffen and Rupprecht (invasion of switzerland).
Very interesting! Well see once we land in France.
You might get Kaiser Wilhem to attend, but he would only interpret the plea as a sign of weakness and ramp up his demands accordingly.
I agree. I did however find this interesting tidbit of the OTL (Wikipedia):

after reading Serbia's reply, Wilhelm commented, "But that eliminates any reason for war" or "every cause for war falls to the ground". Wilhelm noted that Serbia had made "a capitulation of the most humiliating kind", that "the few reservations Serbia has made with respect to certain points can in my opinion surely be cleared up by negotiation", and acting independently of Grey, made a similar "Stop in Belgrade" offer. Wilhelm stated that because "the Serbs are Orientals, therefore liars, tricksters, and masters of evasion", a temporary Austrian occupation of Belgrade was required until Serbia kept its word.

Wilhelm's sudden change of mind about war enraged Bethmann Hollweg, the military, and the diplomatic service, who proceeded to sabotage Wilhelm's offer. A German general wrote: "unfortunately ... peaceful news. The Kaiser wants peace ... He even wants to influence Austria and to stop continuing further." Bethmann Hollweg sabotaged Wilhelm's proposal by instructing von Tschirschky to not restrain Austria. In passing on Wilhelm's message, Bethmann Hollweg excluded the parts wherein the Emperor told the Austrians not to go to war. Jagow told his diplomats to disregard Wilhelm's peace offer, and continue to press for war. General Falkenhayn told Wilhelm he "no longer had control of the affair in his own hands". Falkenhayn went on to imply that the military would stage a coup d'état, and depose Wilhelm in favour of the hawkish Crown Prince Wilhelm if he continued to work for peace.

Which brings me to an important question:
Does anyone have the EVENT list for Serbia's response? I'm unsure which one leads us to OTL war and which one does not.
Maps are going to be nicer for the most part, but please put maps of game regions/counties up if they are important.
If you can, the real maps would definitely be better.
Understood. Yes, I'll do my best to make these maps immersive and yet simple. If I manage to pull it off, it could end up being a really awesome addition.
unless the game throws a big curve ball, and if the tactical maps can be as accurate as the strategic view, then no game footage should be required. It's not really what we're here for in this aar.
Understood. I was thinking of using these Mid-week Q&Rs to cover some of those things. For example this week I have another important task I could use some help with:

I'm looking to reorganise the Royal Grand Fleet. It's looking to be 140 units (some of these units are 5X ships). It needs admirals. 5 to be precise. I'm thinking Jellicoe, and Beatty for the top jobs.
Now (and i know this is a hard ask) without being gamey, or having the brilliant eyesight of after-war hindsight. Which men should/would get the job?

The same goes for the BEF. I'm making arrangements, but if anyone wants a say in the organisation of it, I'm all ears.
I would support a short story aar about Denmark kicked the poop out of Europe collectively for being jerks/idiots and focusing on the real enemy here: the Americans.
Haha!!
Actually the more I read about CKII, the more I wanna do a Scandinavian AAR. But I guess that's been done a few times before. We could do a realtime one, it'll be finished in a thousand years.
I was going to ask the author about putting a Kitchener profile on the appendix of important people
I added him. :)
if they go Alexandretta and not Gallipoli (something both Fisher and Kitchener wanted initially) then you could see Greece enter the war on the Allied side, the Ottomans out of the war by the end of 1915 (OK a bit optimistic, but not out of the question) and Russia being able to stay in the war till the end. Which would be in 1917 at the latest.
Well that's certainly something to try and go for, providing of course that France can hold out the first year
A very, very big IF.
British government at this time certainly had no shortage of egos, starting with the irascible Welshman. I've always felt sort of sympathetic to Asquith trying to manage the likes of Fisher, Kitchener, Churchill, Lloyd George, et al.
Right? There are so many big names and destinies on the table for this year.
Obviously if you have unlimited time then tabs on everyone is possible, but if you want to keep the scope manageable then a bit of hardnosed honesty is required.
It took much longer than I thought, so I did what I had time for.
Looks good. Should probably do one for every year I think. But these are going to be the main players at least until Christmas.
Thank you. That's the plan, hopefully I'll find the time, because this year was all google and polishing, next year I'll have to write down everything myself.
Dark clouds gather on the horizon...
It's getting close now.
I mean, it becomes a little less disturbing and a little more funny, if it isn't some backwards condescending patriarchal doctor
Oh, if you're looking for funny this is the wrong AAR.
That reminds me, anyone know the rules for AARs on the forum? I know Swastikas are off limit.
But after listening to Sabaton - The Attack Of The Dead Men I be damned if that story's not gonna find its way in.
This is great! Real time is a major undertaking too. Best of luck, I'll be following.
Thank you! I really appreciate it.
After doing this a few years back I find it the most rewarding way to play DH.




 
Last edited:

TheButterflyComposer

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Reorganising the fleet depends on what the grand plan is. If they follow the otl strategy of not having one, then they'll have a grand fleet in the Channel and North Sea, a Med fleet that burns for something to do and a Far East fleet to fail to capture one german ship that makes it all the way to South Amercia.

If they go for Fisher's plan or plan anything really, the grand fleet would get split up into something more useful. So that may change who the navy wants running their various shows. And it'll certainly change who the admirality want.

Now (and i know this is a hard ask) without being gamey, or having the brilliant eyesight of after-war hindsight. Which men should/would get the job?
Again depends. If there's to be a massive fleet in the north, then Jellico and Beatty have to be running it. But if there's need for splits and actual missions to be done...depends.

The same goes for the BEF. I'm making arrangements, but if anyone wants a say in the organisation of it, I'm all ears.
And the same here. Look, this one really depends on whether the BEF starts the war under the navy's thumb or not. If big amphibious assaults are planned for the first year that should end the war quickly...then navy stooges, marines and very tactical and aggressive officers are called for.

If the BEF goes to France, I think it'll have most of the inital command structure it had otl. French is almost certain to be in charge unless Kitchner and he fall out far sooner and more explosively, in which case he might be dropped a little.

I think the biggest fight may well be with Fisher and Kitchner on one side and everyone else on the other because everyone else seemed to want to go tk france to be part of the war before it quickly ended, whilst K thought the war was going to be long and hard so in view of the shell shortage and other concerns, he would leap onto the naval assault idea if it was a bit more confidently pushed by the RN.
 

J_Master

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Does anyone have the EVENT list for Serbia's response? I'm unsure which one leads us to OTL war and which one does not.
As far as I'm aware, the choice for Serbia is to fully accept the ultimatum, avoiding the war and thus becoming a puppet of Austria-Hungary, or they accept all but one point, going down the historical path and allowing Austria-Hungary to take the Invade Serbia decision.
 

El Pip

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For example this week I have another important task I could use some help with:

I'm looking to reorganise the Royal Grand Fleet. It's looking to be 140 units (some of these units are 5X ships). It needs admirals. 5 to be precise. I'm thinking Jellicoe, and Beatty for the top jobs.
Now (and i know this is a hard ask) without being gamey, or having the brilliant eyesight of after-war hindsight. Which men should/would get the job?
As others have said, depends on what other fleets you may or may not have and (to a lesser extent) what the plans are. But to be helpful the following People who will have a senior role somewhere;

Admiral Burney - Got the Channel Fleet OTL early in the war (i.e. getting the BEF to France and securing the supply lines), this was a vital job given to a man the Admiralty trusted because they expected the Germans to try and disrupt this - it's what the British would have done. He will get an important fleet job somewhere.

Vice-Admiral Warrender - OTL 2nd Battle Squadron, mate of Jellicoe and swimmer in the Fish Pond. Trained his men well in gunnery but a proper Victorian admiral - utterly unflappable and would happily sail into a minefield if ordered, but lacking initiative.

Admiral Bayly - He had run 1st BC, 3rd Battle and at outbreak of war he commanded 1st Battle Squadron. Solid enough, but he was soon eased out of the fighty side and pushed to Staff roles and eventually anti-submarine commands (where he did well, by the low standards of WW1 anti-sub commands). However he is a natural choice for leading a small chunk of the Grand Fleet under Jellicoe and won't do a bad job, it just won't be anything amazing either.

If you are doing something a bit special then Admiral Thursby will be involved, he was the go-to man for moving troops about (initial BEF transport, Dardenelles campaign, Adriatic Squadron and evacuating the Serbs, supplying Salonica, all the 'fun' stuff.)

Colville is an outside choice, while he was a good admiral who was popular with his peers he never got much of a chance. He was not popular with Churchill and not in in the Fish Pond, so ended up in land based jobs (which he did exceptionally well). Despite all that I've seen sources saying Jellicoe wanted Colville and not Beatty to succeed him, I think by then it had become apparent that running the Grand Fleet was more about comms and organising such a vast force than raw tactical prowess and flair. It would be nice to see him get a proper shot at command somewhere.

Too early for Sturdee, he's in the Admiralty Staff just waiting to cock something up.

Milne will be out in the Med, honestly he was probably a fairly solid choice for a diplomatic/political C-in-C but he was forced into the fighty side and just cocked it up. Fisher thought he would be terrible but was over ruled by Churcill and (allegedly) the King. Can't see him being shifted back unless Fisher is ascending (and/or there is a plan for pre-emptive war on the Ottomans. If it's post the flight of Gneisnau and Breslau then Milne is getting removed so it's academic).

To be difficult I suggest it's a bit early for Beatty. He's a Rear-Admiral as this point heading up 1st BC squadron. Winning the battle of Heligoland Bight was decisive in raising his profile and getting him kicked up to Vice-Admiral and creating the Battlecruiser Fleet for him to command.

So I'd go;

Jellicoe
Burney
Warrender
Bayly
Colville

Solid enough and not a dream list by any means, it's all people the Admiralty would have picked (Churchill might grumble about Colville and try to push Beatty, but it's too damn early to give him a full Battle Squadron. He can have a division of BCs and like it - If there is a big engagement and the BCs do well, then he may rise up as per OTL). It's not a group brimming with initative, don't expect incredibly daring and innovative tactical shocks, but it's strong on gunnery, training and following the plan.