Empire of Fu Manchu

[trekaddict]

I bet that, with Fu on the prowl, Hitler won't mind a bigger French army...

"Mein Führer, the Cannonfod...ehrm Glorious French Army(tm) is ready for combat!"

 

[boehm]

France got Vichyed all right, but when Germany and the UK made peace, the Germans had to withdraw all troops of occupation from France, which then co-signed the peace treaty with Germany and Great Britain. France was stripped of Alsace and Lorraine, had to repay the German war reparations with interests and give diplomatic recognition to German conquests like Poland, Luxemburg and some parts of Belgium. They also had to turn over most over the military equipment in metropolitan France to Germany and were limited to a 100.000 man army without tanks or aircraft for a ten year period. No limit was put on colonial forces though. Finally, France and Belgium were joined in a neutral block, allied with each other but forbidden other military alliances.

I bet that, with Fu on the prowl, Hitler won't mind a bigger French army...

"Mein Führer, the Cannonfod...ehrm Glorious French Army(tm) is ready for combat!"

Reminding me a bit about the rush found the Bundeswehr and to get the formerly neutral western germany to join NATO in '55 ...

 

[boehm]

Could somebody sum up the situation of the European minors? ... Turkey, Spain, Sweden, Yoguslavia, Hungary, Rumania ... all have some not too shabby armies (for minors) ?

With Fu Manchu looming as the big buggeyman - Hitlers wet dream of all the European nations rallying together under the banner of Das Reich for a Great Eastern Crusade might actually come true!!

Whats happening in South America ?

Any subwarfare in the Pacific ? US and German subs teaming up against shipping lanes of Fu Manchu could be mean ... if they can find some bases to operate from? (South America, Austrialia, Ceylon perhaps?)

 

[The Yogi]

What are the numbers looking like at this point in operational troops and those being shipped in/raised by both sides?

OK, Pan-Asia has 40 divisions in theatre, including 6 armored, 15 cavalry, 3 marine, 14 infantry and 2 HQ. The USA has 30 divisions including 17 infantry, 1 cavalry, 8 militia, 3 garrisson and 1 HQ. Pan-Asia is currently using all it's troop transports trying to capture the Dutch East Indies and Malaysia, so no ground reinforcements are going to America right now.

The Americans have in pipeline (plus more out of capacity) 7 armoured division scheduled to deploy during November, 16 infantry divisions scheduled for October and another 16 in December and 8 militia division lines. 8 will be ready in October, with 32 more ready by February 1941. After that, another 20 more will be produced during 1941 in 3 lines. (And by the way, gameplay is way ahead of the story, so I can safely check historical files without cheating on the poor AI).

Could somebody sum up the situation of the European minors? ... Turkey, Spain, Sweden, Yoguslavia, Hungary, Rumania ... all have some not too shabby armies (for minors)?

Spain and Turkey still neutral, but heavily axis-leaning, Sweden non-belligerent pro Finnish and anti-Soviet, Yugoslavia neutral with a pro-german government but strongly anti-German people, Hungary and Romania minor Axis ally fighting the Soviets with Germany,

With Fu Manchu looming as the big buggeyman - Hitlers wet dream of all the European nations rallying together under the banner of Das Reich for a Great Eastern Crusade might actually come true!!

Yes, that's entirely plausible, especially since Britain and France are also on the bandwagon, joining the war in Russia doesn't entail picking sides among the European powers.

Whats happening in South America ?!!

Not much, Colonels and Presidents are quaking in their boots trying not to anger the Pan-Asian dragon.

Any subwarfare in the Pacific ? US and German subs teaming up against shipping lanes of Fu Manchu could be mean ... if they can find some bases to operate from? (South America, Austrialia, Ceylon perhaps?)

Some - US subs seem to be operating from British Island bases and from Panama. South America is out of the question as a base of operations because of the isolationist sentiment mentioned above.

 

[trekaddict]

Reminding me a bit about the rush found the Bundeswehr and to get the formerly neutral western germany to join NATO in '55 ...

Difference is though that these were German soldiers and not French, that W-Germany was never really neutral (at least not in the eyes of the leadership) and thirdly that these guys never served ze Führer but rather a democratic Federal Republic.



But other than that the comparison actually works.

 

[Lurken]

As a swede, I can't help to interested if a swede ever will appear in any update, or an update to partially take place in Sweden.

(Not that it will ever happen, since Sweden isn't that exciting place to stay)

 

[boehm]

As a swede, I can't help to interested if a swede ever will appear in any update, or an update to partially take place in Sweden.

(Not that it will ever happen, since Sweden isn't that exciting place to stay)

No - what we need is a danish character

Perhaps this guy (serving in the british comandos)
Anders Frederik Emil Victor Schau Lassen VC, MC & Two Bars (22 September 1920 - 9 April 1945):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZOAi2ordW4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Lassen

 

[Lurken]

Why not Raoul Wallenberg?

 

[boehm]

Why not Raoul Wallenberg?

Ok fair enough ... another sort of hero ...but a truly great one at that!

 

[yourworstnightm]

Fu is winning, isn't he?
He really is the ultimate evil genious.

 

[Dead William]

The Glorious French Army? Is that like the American Operation Human Shield?

How is FDR treating the African Americans in this reality anyway? Still making them carry ammunition in broken crates?

Fu is not winning. Fu has won. I assume the Americ and allied forces on the ground in the Continental US are all badly mauled? If so, the lack of supplies is hardly likely to stop the onslaught of the Yellow Wave and the Mongolian juggernaut.

If you wish to use a Dutch pulp hero, I suggest Dick Bos.

DW

 

[boehm]

Fu is not winning. Fu has won. DW

I suspect Yogi has a "surprise" in wait for us ...

From a realistic economical point of view - Russia and US are devastated, China is more or less devastated by decades of civil war...so industrially its pretty much Europe vs. Japan ...hardly a fair fight - Now ofcause this is Fu Manchu's timeline ...but nevertheless I wouldnt count the Westerners out of the fight just yet ... Sure Asia has a HUGE population, but if the Westerners REALLY mobilized the manpower both Europe and both North and potentially South America too... equipped with weapons from the Arsenal of well not quite "democracy" ...then ...

 

[trekaddict]

If a cloud of Nuclear tipped A-9s descends on Asia, not even Fu can shoot all of them down.

 

[c0d5579]

Look to the Sax Roehmer novels - the westerners, despite not being nearly as smart as Fu, or as well-funded, will win through sheer determination.

 

[Derek Pullem]

How is FDR treating the African Americans in this reality anyway? Still making them carry ammunition in broken crates?

Fu is not winning. Fu has won. I assume the Americ and allied forces on the ground in the Continental US are all badly mauled? If so, the lack of supplies is hardly likely to stop the onslaught of the Yellow Wave and the Mongolian juggernaut.

The "Yellow Wave" is barely going to have parity in troop numbers by October and going to be severely outnumbered by the Spring. Fu has to win before winter in Amercia or it will become a meat grinder for his troops.

The East Coast US plus the European Allies have more than enough supplies to go around the american forces in the US and the Atlantic is still a Fu exclusion zone. The US does need to hold the line this winter but as the PanAsians advance their need to garrison their flanks (Canada, seaborne invasions on the Gulf coast) become greater.

Basically the Panasians need to break through this Autumn or they are toast by the end of 1942 in the USA

 

[Dinglehoff]

The "Yellow Wave" is barely going to have parity in troop numbers by October and going to be severely outnumbered by the Spring. Fu has to win before winter in Amercia or it will become a meat grinder for his troops.

The East Coast US plus the European Allies have more than enough supplies to go around the american forces in the US and the Atlantic is still a Fu exclusion zone. The US does need to hold the line this winter but as the PanAsians advance their need to garrison their flanks (Canada, seaborne invasions on the Gulf coast) become greater.

Basically the Panasians need to break through this Autumn or they are toast by the end of 1942 in the USA

The number disparity can be made good with the usual exotic technology and some dirty tricks. There might also be doctrine differences and readiness gaps that can be exploited.
Garrisoning the flanks isn't going to be a huge deal unless there have been entire armies that have been swept aside/landed.

 

[unmerged(65036)]

Good to see all this new material; I haven't checked the AAR in a LONG time. In order:

Thank you Sir.

And aww crap my home state is under Asian occupication! Grandpa! NOOOOO!

Hi frigidmagi (yes, this is the same Simon_Jester).

Honestly, at this point I'm not sure what the status of occupied territory looks like. The Pan-Asian advance has managed to outrun most plausible attempts by refugees to escape the areas they first conquered, so a lot of people who tried to run at first would have had to plunk down somewhere just because the Pan-Asians have moved ahead of you. And the Kharash policy has some gaping holes in it, I'm afraid: the sheer size of the territory and the very limited numbers of men the Pan-Asians can spare to control their rear make it prohibitively difficult to find and kill civilians who run into the countryside. Fu's troops have, in the space of a year or less, overrun something like two or three million square miles... with an army of less than a million men. There are simply too many hiding places for people to slip through the cordons of Pan-Asian cavalry, and the invaders cannot detach troops from the front line to hunt down and massacre civilians beyond the minimum they need to secure their own supply lines.

[Those are just rough estimates of numbers I can't be bothered to check, but the point stands]

I don't care what the Shadow says; they simply cannot have killed everyone in the occupied territories, nor even close to everyone. The manpower to scour that much land that fast isn't present on the continent.

That massacre of Force Z was heart wrenching to read! All those men and those ships... gone... for want of an accurate AA gun o

Pan-Asia is truly ruling the waves now. USN sunk, British and French fleets sunk, Germany not going to send any ships into the Pacific any time soon... it's a dark time already for the free world, and it's going to become even darker before it's midnight for liberty.

In a broadly realistic setting the situation is still salvageable. The British (and arguably German) industrial base in this setting is the analogue for the American one historically, something so far out of range of Pan-Asian attack that it's practically immune for the foreseeable future. The Americans themselves have lost an enormous amount of ground (stipulating that this is possible, which is of course a bit tricky), but the Pan-Asian offensive has got to be a bit hollow. As noted, they have until winter to win the war. They only got as far as they did because they attacked before US mobilization plans were capable of supplying an army equipped to the level the US had planned for; accept

And the German position against the Soviet and Pan-Asian forces on the Eastern Front will at least hold long enough to give the "Allies" time to push back the Pan-Asian occupation of the US and begin construction of a new navy on the Eastern Seaboard and in Britain. Historically it took three years from the point at which the front stalled out for the Germans to be pushed out of Russia, and here they don't have to worry about being bombed or harassed from behind. Though it's unknown how the Pan-Asian reinforcements will affect the situation, the sheer magnitude of what the Russians lost before they managed to consolidate a defensive front is staggering, and they in turn will not be able to count on industrial support from the Western Allies, who are at best neutral with respect to the Soviets and at worst co-belligerents.

For that matter, the British are free to redeploy the RN more or less at will in this situation, because they no longer face a territorial threat in Europe...

So all is not lost, from my point of view (since I view this as a story in which HoI is at best a simulator for historical events).

What? Why this unfounded lack of confidence in the brave seamen of New Rome?

Simple. Old Rome sucked at naval warfare until they stole Old Carthage's techniques. The same applies here: the New Romans must learn everything they know about naval war from Tunisia!

Wait... that doesn't work either...

It's probably still far ion the future, but I wonder how France, Spain and the other "neutrals" in Europe will react when the unholy Bolshevist-Pan-Asian werewolf army breaks through towards Poland and Hungary. Will Germany try to rally Europe behind them, with promises of a more equal post-war order?

That is actually a very likely outcome. The main reason it didn't happen historically was that the legitimacy of the Germans as a hegemon in Europe was being constantly called into question by the Western Allies, and because of the anger caused by the German occupation. Since here, France is liable to get a less hostile occupation (no need to garrison them against Britain), and indeed the French and British are already co-belligerents with Germany against Pan-Asia, once Pan-Asian involvement on the Eastern Front is made clear that kind of alliance becomes very likely.

Or will France seek an accomodation with the Asians, and confront the Germans for revanche? Fu Manchu has trampled all over their colonial empire, and odds are he will not stop until he has destroyed all the European empires. He's Attila after all, leading the peoples of the east (like so often before) against his millenia old enemies - the European nations descended from the Roman and Germanic peoples. And in his new role as the Slavic peoples' overlord (protector of the USSR), he's reassuming a role he already had in his time as Attila and as the Bulgarian Czar, when he led confederations of Asian and Slavic peoples against the west. He's not really going to throw the French a bone to get them on his side, except in the most superficial and temporarily expedient way, since a resurgent France has no place in his plans for a new world order. Am I right in that perception?

I wonder how much this plays a role in his thinking. French, British, Americans, Germans, Spanish, Italians - they are all the same to him, are they not? I remember he made comments earlier where he likened the German (or was it American?) hesitation to sacrifice their own men on suicide missions to the Romans, who had similar conceptions about honor and not sacrificing your own soldiers willy-nilly.

That sounds quite plausible to me, and my record at analyzing Fu's motives and actions is pretty good as a rule.

The British still have Captain Price stashed around somewhere. Thanks to his combination of badass moustache and SAS beret he's the only one able to take Fu down.

Indeed.

PRICE!
And, just so he won't feel left out:
SKORZENY!

The number disparity can be made good with the usual exotic technology and some dirty tricks. There might also be doctrine differences and readiness gaps that can be exploited.
Garrisoning the flanks isn't going to be a huge deal unless there have been entire armies that have been swept aside/landed.

It becomes a huge deal if the enemy can make unopposed landings at will along the Gulf Coast and they're fighting in the American South. Or if... hell, Coast Guard cutters start steaming up the Mississippi and shooting at bridges.* Likewise if either the British or the Germans manage to shake a few more divisions loose, which would seem extremely advisable under the circumstances because even a modest donation of fighting forces to stabilize the American front until 1942 will have a major effect on the outcome, with the Americans finally beginning to approach a position of parity.

*No idea if that's practical or not.

 

[The Yogi]

Good to see all this new material; I haven't checked the AAR in a LONG time.

Hi old boot, great to have you back reading!

As usual, you make good points. Regarding this one, however, I think you're missing the point;

I don't care what the Shadow says; they simply cannot have killed everyone in the occupied territories, nor even close to everyone. The manpower to scour that much land that fast isn't present on the continent.

You're absolutely right in that they haven't killed everyone. They've just killed everyone they've run into who wasn't already fleeing. Realising this, most everyone else with the exception of a few diehards intending to fight to the death have fled for their lives. Yes, the refugees have been caught up with by Pan-Asian advance forces, which have massacred the first ones encountered in temporary camps or resettling in urban areas. The rest, again, have fled and have been allowed to do so. The Pan-Asian have even left corridors and routes open for refugees to escape through (like in the scene where Buck fought Oscars strafing a refugee column). They're not trying to wipe out the population of the United States, they're trying to displace them from the occupied areas. So yes, there's plenty of guerilla bands, the occasional smallish band of refugees hiding in areas where they can live off the land. But there are no inhabited cities, nor towns, nor even villages. Who without a death wish would be fool enough to stay behind? As a result, relatively few have actually been killed - although the dead surely number in the few hundred thousands.

 

[Dinglehoff]

Is there a scenario file, or whatever, available to the playing forumites?

 

[The Yogi]

Is there a scenario file, or whatever, available to the playing forumites?

No, I'm afraid not. There's some kind of ad-hoc scenario of course, but I wouldn't dare release it as is, too unpolished by far. For example, some custom events I fired through the console, as I never got around to implementing good triggers for them.

I'm not saying it couldn't be spruced up to be releasable, it probably could. But I seriously doubt I'll ever have the time for it. And I've actually played the portion of the game alloted to "Empire of Fu Manchu" to the finish already, so there isn't much incentive for me to finish it.

And on a related subject, I'm giving serious thought not to finish this story in HOI3 as originally intended. First of all, I'm a little bit underwhelmed with the game, it's runs so SLOOOOOW and requires so much micromanagement... Plus I doubt I'll ever learn to do the heavy modding necessary for representing the final situation in EOFM.

I'm instead considering doing the final part of the Trilogy for the recently released HOI II Iron Cross.

Thougts/opinions on that, anyone?

(BTW, an update is coming very soon, almost done now...)