Empire Expansion @ 1.5.1

[grommile]

Not only that but we also have to take into account that base province tax is very important to AE.

It is? I certainly hadn't noticed such an effect.

Taking 10 provinces with 1 base tax might be just the same as taking 1 province with 10 base tax. This is partially why AE is very difficult to manage in Italy and Germany, as their lands are filthy rich in base tax.

The reason AE is difficult to manage in Italy and Germany is, above all, the HRE modifier, followed closely by the fact that most of your neighbours are not only in the same religious group as your victim, but also the same culture group.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My bad o

But yes, the AI absolutely gets coalitions. Its just that the AI knows to constantly spam its diplomats to improve relations with everyone around, something I don't think a lot of players will do.

Not only does AI get coalitions, you can use coalitions against AIs to expand. Steps:

1. Ally a relatively small nation and bring them in on an adjacent bigger one.
2. Let the ally occupy as many provinces in the war as possible.
3. In the peace deal, give 4, 5, however many provinces you can to the small nation.
4. Vassal the target in a follow-up war (15 AE), break your alliance, join the coalition against your former ally, and force him to return cores to your vassal. PUNISH him for his aggression!
5. Annex your vassal and blob like crazy for 15 AE.

It is? I certainly hadn't noticed such an effect.

Base tax is not directly relevant to AE in any discernible way. I find it ironic that many coalition proponents actively demonstrate a lack of basic understanding behind the mechanic.

From an AE standpoint, it is more efficient to cede high base tax provinces rather than low ones, because you take fewer provinces due to WS limitations.

 

[fleetothemoon]

Italy god yes. I vassalized........repeat VASSALIZED not annexed OPM Tuscany and I copped -50 AE from that...........

30 odd for vassalized I'm onboard with. -50 for annex ok. But -50 for just vassalization? Doesn't AE starting getting worrysome once you breach the 50 AE area?

For one province thats a bit rich.

I'm pretty sure vassalizing an OPM gives you only 15 AE. Actually, it doesn't even matter how many provinces they have, since all forced vassalization costs 15 AE unless if you got a cb to reduce it (which is why it is generally preferable to annex an OPM instead of vassalizing it since outright annexation with claim on an OPM cost also 15 AE). There is no way you would get 50 AE from just vassalization, you must of gotten something wrong there.

so far in 1.5, I've played russia, britain, and brandenburg. for the first two, I made empires like twice that of history, and never got coalitions. brandenburg, I lost but I got to about 15 provinces before getting betrayed by every ai, but never had a coalition. I think it can be a little silly sometimes, like when getting caught fabricating a claim (which there might be some evidence that the percentages are off) creates an HRE coalition with no ae prior.

I think a coalition forming from taking or vassalizing one province, with no AE prior, is broken. but generally, ae is ok.

I found that in general, coalitions don't form unless you have 18-20+ AE (point me wrong here if you guys had different experiences). So one vassalization would not produce a coalition as neither will taking one province without claim (both cost 15 AE). However, since you get 10 AE if you get discovered fabricating claim, it is extremely easy to break this AE 'limit' just from bad luck alone. Although from what I've seen, sometimes coalition may not even form after you obtain 30+ AE.

Generally though, when in the HRE, coalitions are formed much more easily since (1) You have multiple neighbors and (2) The German 'region' includes a lot of nations (AE gain appears to an extent, to be localized) and (3) Unlawful imperial territory modifier damages your relationships further alongside AE opinion malus.

Not only that but we also have to take into account that base province tax is very important to AE.

Taking 10 provinces with 1 base tax might be just the same as taking 1 province with 10 base tax. This is partially why AE is very difficult to manage in Italy and Germany, as their lands are filthy rich in base tax.

That's also why when expanding I prefer taking lands with valuable trade goods, like gold, salt, wine, instead of lands with high base tax.

I'm pretty sure that's not true. Base tax has nothing to do with AE. However, provinces with richer base tax cost more admin points to core than poorer provinces as well as counting more towards overextension.

 

[Dragonheart]

Playing Spain ironman without colonisation (my vassals portugal + england are doing this for me) , i got no coaltions until 1750 due to cautious attantance.
It seems that i got to greedy in europe , now i have to fight a huge coalition for a mere profit of max 2-3 provinces which is a bit annoying as i have to occupyalmost all of europe for that.

The tricky thing is to wait for the right moment, when the HRE - Nations are fighting each other. Well the final period in that game will be a bit nasty.

 

[grommile]

I'm pretty sure vassalizing an OPM gives you only 15 AE.

It gives you 15 base AE. Within the HRE (and only within the HRE), I'm pretty sure it's possible to get a 3.5x AE multiplier with the victim's same-culture same-religion immediate neighbours, such that the actual AE experienced will be 52.5.