Empire Evolution and Gestalt Conscousness

[Theory]

I picked this game up during the winter sale and I'm having a blast. I love watching my empires transform and new stories emerge as over the hundreds of years the game spans. Having he choice to alter my empire and gameplay is fantastic. I'd like to see even more freedom given to the player to change and evolve, particularly I think it would be fun empires to have the chance to become gestalt consciousnesses after the start of the game.

I recently started playing as a spiritualist empire, unlocked the psychic potential of my people allowing them to directly link their minds, explored beyond the shroud and found the Chosen One. So now, an immortal mind rules over my empire of mind-linked psionics. That sure sounds close to a hive mind to me. I'm role-playing that my immortal God-Emperor went mad with power and controls / influences everyone's minds now, but I'd love to have an actual in-game mechanic to transform my people into a gestalt consciousness. Maybe it could be further event chains for the Chosen one, or psionic tech / ascension perks that can be researched which allow psionics to control other minds or merge with each other, heck even if I had to build some kind of megastructure to boost the psionic abilities of the God-Emperor allowing them to control / assimilate their people that would be great.

I think empires that take the synth ascension path should also have the opportunity to become a gestalt consciousness as well, through some in-game choice / mechanic, uniting their combined minds into an even greater one. Like I said, I'm new to Stellaris, so maybe this is already possible, in which case, sorry and HOW do I do it!? But if it's not yet possible, what thoughts do you have about this possibility?

 

[Adolf - Finite War]

I've played a lot of Stellaris and no it's not possible right now to do that unless I missed something really big.

I agree such a development should be possible but it should be difficult and require mega-structure like investments in most cases - for the god emperor something like Professor X's Cerebro (X-Men) to boost his power across the galaxy and affect all your psionic pops. There should also be counter movements against such a development led by other powerful telepaths. A pact with a shroud entity that requires a bigger trade-off might also be a plausible way.

The transition will als be difficult due to different buildings. (Compare Machine Empire and Synth Empire)

 

[Theory]

The transition will also be difficult due to different buildings. (Compare Machine Empire and Synth Empire)

Yeah, when I switched from oligarchy to God-Emperor, I think some of my building options changed as well. I'm sure some of the buildings could just be switched out for their equivalent ones, or perhaps just set to 'ruins' or whatever happens when a hive mind conquers another empire's planet? I agree, this shouldn't be a quick or easy switch, merging (or subjugating if you want to play it that way) billions of minds into one single consciousness. But I think it would be a fun, flavorful option that makes the effort worth it. At least for the right kind of play through.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Yeah, when I switched from oligarchy to God-Emperor, I think some of my building options changed as well. I'm sure some of the buildings could just be switched out for their equivalent ones, or perhaps just set to 'ruins' or whatever happens when a hive mind conquers another empire's planet? I agree, this shouldn't be a quick or easy switch, merging (or subjugating if you want to play it that way) billions of minds into one single consciousness. But I think it would be a fun, flavorful option that makes the effort worth it. At least for the right kind of play through.

One problem with doing this mid game would be having to pick all new civics on the spot, and (if you can go the other way from gestalt to "free mind") also having to pick or assign appropriate ethos picks.

There's also the issue that there isn't a psionic gestalt as such, unless you'd be having the psionic path lead you to being a standard hive, which is very different from the standard take on the psionic ruler thing.
Some buildings straight up don't exist on one route or the other, and whilst you *could* in theory ruin them in the process, this would be wasteful and expensive to put right afterwards - and considering the AI's current problems with repairing damaged buildings it would outright kill any AI player that tried it.

Also, if synth ascension and psionic ascension can make you a gestalt, what should bio/gene-ascension get you as an option? If this *also* allows you to become a hive, where's the distinction between the psionic ascension and the gene-ascension?

If the ascension makes you into a hive (by whatever means) remember that this causes issues for anyone in the empire who is not part of the hive, or isn't being assimilated to the hive.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

They made Hiveminds a lot more Zerg- or Tyranid-like in 2.2, so while this could have fit pre-2.2 Hiveminds, it doesn't so much anymore.

 

[Theory]

They made Hiveminds a lot more Zerg- or Tyranid-like in 2.2, so while this could have fit pre-2.2 Hiveminds, it doesn't so much anymore.

I've seen the 'devouring swarm' civil that I feel is very Zerg-like or Starship Troopers-esque. But aren't there non-devouring swarm Hivemind play styles as well?

 

[Theory]

One problem with doing this mid game would be having to pick all new civics on the spot, and (if you can go the other way from gestalt to "free mind") also having to pick or assign appropriate ethos picks.

There's also the issue that there isn't a psionic gestalt as such, unless you'd be having the psionic path lead you to being a standard hive, which is very different from the standard take on the psionic ruler thing.
Some buildings straight up don't exist on one route or the other, and whilst you *could* in theory ruin them in the process, this would be wasteful and expensive to put right afterwards - and considering the AI's current problems with repairing damaged buildings it would outright kill any AI player that tried it.

Also, if synth ascension and psionic ascension can make you a gestalt, what should bio/gene-ascension get you as an option? If this *also* allows you to become a hive, where's the distinction between the psionic ascension and the gene-ascension?

If the ascension makes you into a hive (by whatever means) remember that this causes issues for anyone in the empire who is not part of the hive, or isn't being assimilated to the hive.

I don't think bio/gene-ascension needs to have a hive-mind option. I think it could, but doesn't need to have one just because the others do. Does bio/gene or synth ascensions have something similar to the Shroud?? I've yet to take those paths, so i'm not sure.

Having to ruin or replace some buildings could be difficult, but I'm sure it could be done. The empire could even get some short bonus, or extra resources from the excitement of every mind merging together at once to help offset the cost of ruining or replacing some buildings. Picking new civics actually sounds kinda fun, I love changing gameplay as part of a story in the game.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I don't think bio/gene-ascension needs to have a hive-mind option. I think it could, but doesn't need to have one just because the others do. Does bio/gene or synth ascensions have something similar to the Shroud?? I've yet to take those paths, so i'm not sure.

Having to ruin or replace some buildings could be difficult, but I'm sure it could be done. The empire could even get some short bonus, or extra resources from the excitement of every mind merging together at once to help offset the cost of ruining or replacing some buildings. Picking new civics actually sounds kinda fun, I love changing gameplay as part of a story in the game.

They don't, but interestingly at the moment bio is the only route that can add/remove the hivemind trait, since it's the "intended" hive play trait.
Making it so that it's the only one that can't create a hive mind would be odd, given that context.

 

[Adolf - Finite War]

They don't have something akin to the shroud as far as I know. Though the exclusivity of these three ascension paths is rather gamey anyway and something I would like to see them part with.

People enhancing their genes no big deal for sci-fi
People awakening their psy powers still fairly common
Cybernetics hell look at Vader.

And some of the most iconic sci-fi shows Star Trek and Star Wars have mix ups or possible mix ups of all 3 of them
Star Wars - Vader - cyborg and psy powers the also have cloning and gene manipulation seen in E2 so a Jedi/Sith with
all 3 features is quite possible.
Star Trek TNG - telepaths and cybernetic eyes aboard, DS9 - superior genes for the win. KHAAN! - should have gone pys-asc I guess

And even further down the road combos make sense you explore the shroud meet all the enigmatic entities and eventually figure out how your mind can exist in a fully synthetic body. Now the other way around might be a bit harder but if we can except intelligence emerging in computer systems these minds could imo also learn to understand more underlaying principles of the universe that lead to psionic powers and into the shroud.

For bio to be more unique we'd really need some more advanced options than just changing/enhancing pop/leader traits beyond what any empire can already do.:

Things like shape shifters (Star Treks - Founders), Bioships, changing the biosphere of planets - removing exofungi and dangerous wildlife/adding lush, better abilities to deal with diseases/create them (bio warfare).

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I've seen the 'devouring swarm' civil that I feel is very Zerg-like or Starship Troopers-esque. But aren't there non-devouring swarm Hivemind play styles as well?

Not all Hiveminds are Devouring Swarms, but all Hiveminds play with Hivemind mechanics, which means special jobs, buildings, traditions, and ascension perks- all of which indicate a very Zerg/Tyranid-like "biotech" approach. Spawning pools, hive-worlds, etc.