Empire Ethos

[Gball]

Ello

So in the latest stream, many blog pops have developed more than 3 ethos. Some have fewer and so on.

Can the same happen to the governing empire? For example, could you, after a long time, become both a fanatical materialist and a fanatical xenophile (4 trait points in total) to match a fanatic xenophile/materialist population?

 

[Gball]

Bump!

 

[rocketman120]

You have three points to invest in ethos at the start, and all POPs operate with 3 points overall. You can't get 2 fanatical ethoses.

 

[lemmox]

Have they actually stated whether your empire even has ethoi? I was under the impression that the ethos system applies purely to pops, and the bonuses are applied on a per-pop basis.

 

[Veracin]

Have they actually stated whether your empire even has ethoi? I was under the impression that the ethos system applies purely to pops, and the bonuses are applied on a per-pop basis.

Your empire ethos are also your Loyalist faction ethos, so your empire ethos apply to all pops that are in complete agreement with the empire. Most ethos only affect pops though. Though some apply bonuses to your entire Empire, such as the Militarist ethos making it harder for your empire to secure alliances, this bonus doesn't make sense on a pop.

 

[Songhai Dawn]

Yes, the three ethos points you spend are for your empire, not your pops (although your starting pops have the same ethe as your empire)

 

[lemmox]

Such as the Militarist ethos making it harder for your empire to secure alliances, this bonus doesn't make sense on a pop.

Those are literally the only ones that make sense as an empire bonus though. I just assumed there was some system determining the ethos of your current ruler than set those. Why would they build a "empire ethos" system that only matters for one set of ethos in the entire spectrum?

 

[lemmox]

Yes, the three ethos points you spend are for your empire, not your pops (although your starting pops have the same ethe as your empire)

Yah got a source for that?

 

[Veracin]

You have three points to invest in ethos at the start, and all POPs operate with 3 points overall. You can't get 2 fanatical ethoses.[/QUOTE

This isn't true, it was shown in one of the streams that pops can be fanatical in two ethos, which means if those pops form a faction, and that faction takes over your empire as the new loyalist faction, then you could have two fanatical ethos as your empire ethos. I assume though, that they made it to where pops can't have more than three ethos points cause that seems OP if the situation I described happens.

 

[VI Imre]

This is a very good question. Can your imperial ethoi diverge from the starter ethoi?

2 examples:
A) You are part of a federation but you are minority and on the elections another race wins the leadership. Do you current ethoi change to the new majority leaders?
B) The Imperium has 3 fanatic ethoi, Fanatical Xenophobe, Fanatical Militarist and Fanatical Imperialist. Now if I start with the base 3 ethos can I radicalize them with time?

 

[lemmox]

) You are part of a federation but you are minority and on the elections another race wins the leadership. Do you current ethoi change to the new majority leaders?

It's worth noting that this isn't how federations work, it's a simple leadership rotation that cycles through each member state - not member species.

 

[Veracin]

Those are literally the only ones that make sense as an empire bonus though. I just assumed there was some system determining the ethos of your current ruler than set those. Why would they build a "empire ethos" system that only matters for one set of ethos in the entire spectrum?

Leaders don't have ethos, they have traits. Pops have ethos, and the Loyalist Pop Faction will always have your empire ethos. This can change however, should a new Pop Faction rise to power and becomes your Loyalist Faction, then your empire takes that faction's ethos. The reason why it is called Empire Ethos is because at the beginning of the game that is your entire empire's ethos, meaning every single pop is part of the loyalist faction, which means they have the Empire's ethos.

 

[lemmox]

This can change however, should a new Pop Faction rise to power and becomes your Loyalist Faction, then your empire takes that factions's ethos.

So leaders do have ethoi, they're just determined by the faction that leader originated from.

 

[Yenzen]

Yes, the three ethos points you spend are for your empire, not your pops (although your starting pops have the same ethe as your empire)

More or less, as long as we agree that the vast majority of the actual empire effects are POP specific and don't apply to divergent POPs, and mostly matter for edicts/policies/tech draws.

 

[Veracin]

So leaders do have ethoi, they're just determined by the faction that leader originated from.

Faction leaders lead their factions, and those factions do have their own specific ethos. But the leaders themselves don't have ethos. If, say, a Pacifistic faction leader in your military republic becomes elected, that doesn't mean your empire ethos/loyalist ethos changes. It means that that faction has gotten sort of what they wanted, and will be less likely to do anything drastic. This was demonstrated in the latest Blorg stream I believe in the oligarchic elections. Your Loyalist Faction pops are loyal to you, not the current leader. You are like the national spirit or whatever of your empire, and you chose a specific set of ethos because you wanted them, and so the Loyalist faction are loyal to those ethos.

If you do want to change ethos on purpose, you can "Tyrranize" your current loyalist pops, which will decrease the loyalist faction's popularity, and in turn incite revolts against the current loyalists. If those revolts are successful, (Which they probably will be because you want them to be) then the former loyalist faction is removed and the revolting faction becomes the new loyalist faction. This was demonstrated in the late-game preview at GDC.

EDIT: I am basing a lot of my knowledge on videos and streams, however there are bits that I'm assuming because I tried to connect the dots in the most logical way from those videos and streams. So take my explanations with a grain of salt.

 

[lemmox]

Faction leaders lead their factions, and those factions do have their own specific ethos. But the leaders themselves don't have ethos. If, say, a Pacifistic faction leader in your military republic becomes elected, that doesn't mean your empire ethos/loyalist ethos changes. It means that that faction has gotten sort of what they wanted, and will be less likely to do anything drastic. This was demonstrated in the latest Blorg stream I believe in the oligarchic elections. Your Loyalist Faction pops are loyal to you, not the current leader. You are like the national spirit or whatever of your empire, and you chose a specific set of ethos because you wanted them, and so the Loyalist faction are loyal to those ethos.

If you do want to change ethos on purpose, you can "Tyrranize" your current loyalist pops, which will decrease the loyalist faction's popularity, and in turn incite revolts against the current loyalists. This was demonstrated in the late-game preview at GDC.

Well that sounds like a terrible system. It completely undermines the dynamic nature of the pop ethos. Hopefully thats one of the first things modded out.

 

[Veracin]

Well that sounds like a terrible system. It completely undermines the dynamic nature of the pop ethos. Hopefully thats one of the first things modded out.

Not neccessarily imo, you still reap the benefit of different pop ethos'. Say if you are a fanatic spiritualist Xenophile, but you have some fanatic materialist pops, you would probably want to put those pops on science labs and resources because you still get their pop bonuses, (which in the case of materialism pop bonus is the only bonus) they may not be very happy, but you're using your diverse pops in an efficient way.

 

[lemmox]

Not neccessarily imo, you still reap the benefit of different pop ethos'. Say if you are a fanatic spiritualist Xenophile, but you have some fanatic materialist pops, you would probably want to put those pops on science labs and resources because you still get their pop bonuses, (which in the case of materialism pop bonus is the only bonus) they may not be very happy, but you're using your diverse pops in an efficient way.

What I was excited for with this system was the ability to have my empire gradually and naturally evolve, purely through the dynamic drift of my pop's traits and ethos. If there is some set of fixed "empire ethos" completely divorced from the pop ethos and only changing in discrete jumps at certain times, it completely undermines the value and excitement of the pop system. It destroys about 80% of what I thought was special about the system they had developed. It's extremely disappointing to me if it indeed works like you say.

 

[Veracin]

What I was excited for with this system was the ability to have my empire gradually and naturally evolve, purely through the dynamic drift of my pop's traits and ethos. If there is some set of fixed "empire ethos" completely divorced from the pop ethos and only changing in discrete jumps at certain times, it completely undermines the value and excitement of the pop system. It destroys about 80% of what I thought was special about the system they had developed. It's extremely disappointing to me if it indeed works like you say.

I agree with you in that it would make sense for your empire ethos to change not only when there's some sort of revolt. We'll see when the game releases.

 

[Songhai Dawn]

Keep in mind, though, that there is a clear difference between the empire you are playing and its founding race. Empires and individual population units ("Pops") have an Ethos, but a species as a whole does not. Instead, what defines a species is simply its initial name, home planet class, and portrait (and possibly certain backstory facts.) Each race also starts out with a number of genetic Traits. As with the empire Ethos, you get to spend points to invest in Traits when you create your founding species at the start of a new game.

From DD #5

Essentially every pop (leaders included) has an ethos, and so does your empire. You choose the imperial ethos at the start