Empire containing other empires?

[Mixxer5]

I've just noticed that Kingdom of Toulouse (in some mod probably) is also part of bigger kingdom of France (or Aquitaine- sorry I don't remember). Is it possible to do same thing with empires? To make huge Roman Empire containing few other smaller empires (France, Hispania, ERE etc)? Or it's some hard coded and impossible thing?

 

[Aasmul]

I've just noticed that Kingdom of Toulouse (in some mod probably) is also part of bigger kingdom of France (or Aquitaine- sorry I don't remember). Is it possible to do same thing with empires? To make huge Roman Empire containing few other smaller empires (France, Hispania, ERE etc)? Or it's some hard coded and impossible thing?

its hardcoded, what you have seen is an empire being tweaked to display as a kingdom.

 

[riknap]

the kingdom of toulouse is probably a titular title, instead of being a de jure title.
and NO, there is no kingdom of toulouse in vanilla

it's probably the kingdom of Aquitaine. in-game, France is divided into two de jure kingdoms: France itself for the north and Aquitaine for the Occitan parts in the south. The effect is that the large duchies of Aquitaine and Toulouse are not de jure vassals of the king of France but only de facto until 100 years (wherein the kingdom of Aquitaine, assuming the AI didn't declare it, is absorbed and becomes de jure part of the Kingdom of France).
It's a game balance thing to reflect/abstract historical reality (that the dukes of Aquitaine were more or less only paper vassals to the King of France)



Regarding the Roman thing: it's possible to mod a titular empire title "Roman Empire" while the actual de jure titles are still vanilla.

 

[Mixxer5]

its hardcoded, what you have seen is an empire being tweaked to display as a kingdom.

Well... I know that France itself was divided indeed- but whether second kingdom of Toulouse was also part of Aquitaine or France- I'm sure it was a kingdom tier inside another kingdom (and almost surely it was Prince and Thane mod). I can't provide screen now but I was surprised seeing that south eastern part of France is "drifting" from French empire towards my Roman Empire (Byzantium). It was on Empire map mode so only kingdoms (de jure) were showed- this one was presented as part of France (which already annexed de jure Aquitaine after 100 years). Aquitaine itself is much bigger, while Toulouse was about 1/8 of France size...

 

[Aasmul]

Well... I know that France itself was divided indeed- but whether second kingdom of Toulouse was also part of Aquitaine or France- I'm sure it was a kingdom tier inside another kingdom (and almost surely it was Prince and Thane mod). I can't provide screen now but I was surprised seeing that south eastern part of France is "drifting" from French empire towards my Roman Empire (Byzantium). It was on Empire map mode so only kingdoms (de jure) were showed- this one was presented as part of France (which already annexed de jure Aquitaine after 100 years). Aquitaine itself is much bigger, while Toulouse was about 1/8 of France size...

the empire tier kingdom of France is made by this short fix in the commonfile

title = "EF"
foa = "EF_FOA"
title_prefix = "EF_OF"

there is a simpler way however if one wants to edit the tier

simply put

name_tier = king

in the commonfile

the reason for the more compplicated one is that I wanted to give the emperor/king a unique title

 

[Mixxer5]

Well- as far as I remember You're one of developers (or at least contributor) for P&T, so there's no reason to argue with You about it But I'm sure (well... almost sure now) that France have two tiers- kingdom and little bigger empire (with Britannia and some provinces on the east). I've conquered (using some French heir) France kingdom (it had to be kingdom because empire can't have second empire inside). France lacked few provinces for their de jure status so they couldn't "drift" to my empire. Only one small part did- called kingdom of Toulouse- and it still was de jure part of France. And definitively kingdom tier...

 

[richvh]

In the vanilla game, as of 1.06b, there's a de jure Kingdom of France, and a de jure Empire of Francia, which includes the de jure kingdoms of France, Brittany, Aquitaine and Burgundy. Not sure what mod you're playing, but what you're seeing is drift of the kingdom of Toulouse from whatever de jure empire it started out as part of into yours... while said empire may never have been formed. There is no "empire containing other empires" going on, just "empires controlling significant parts of what is recognized as, by law, the lands of another empire".

 

[al3xytp]

Yo dawg, i heard you like empire. So we put empire in your empire so you can become emperor while being emperor x)

 

[takedown47]

Create an empire level titular title. Attach specific formation conditions to it and you will have an empire within an empire.

 

[grisamentum]

Create an empire level titular title. Attach specific formation conditions to it and you will have an empire within an empire.

No, you won't.

 

[Darkgamma]

No, you won't.

How so not?
If a titular empire requires you to have two more empires, how does it potentially differ from a superempire except that it will take land as if it were a regular empire?

 

[Spartanlemur]

 

[al3xytp]

View attachment 63814

Actually, the text is too big, but it's clear

 

[grisamentum]

How so not?
If a titular empire requires you to have two more empires, how does it potentially differ from a superempire except that it will take land as if it were a regular empire?

It won't be a superior title. It'll just be a third emperor title. It won't "contain" anything.

 

[Mixxer5]

It won't be a superior title. It'll just be a third emperor title. It won't "contain" anything.

My question was about same tier empires but both with same de jure territories (or at least some of them). It'd be historically plausible to have Latin Empire claims on whole ERE (on the other hand they were usurpers).

 

[Darkgamma]

It won't be a superior title. It'll just be a third emperor title. It won't "contain" anything.

Then comes the magic of pretend.

 

[takedown47]

Or you can rename the title levels to something like this:

Emperor = Supreme Emperor
King = Emperor
Duke = King
Count = Duke
Baron = Count

Simple

 

[Darkgamma]

Yeah, but this is cooler because it's a custom title and custom title holder title.

 

[fargoniac]

I think the levels should go:
Emperor-Empire
High King-Kingdom
King-Kingdom
Grand Duke-Grand Duchy
Duke-Duchy
Viscount-County
Count-County
Baron-Barony
Lord-Manor

 

[richvh]

Unfortunately, there's only 5 tiers, and that's a hard-coded limit.

(Viscount is junior to count, by the way.)