Empire-building

[Alexander Seil]

So, while I applaud all of the improvements in the political and economic systems...I am still left wondering, what will Victoria 2 have to offer in the area where, let's face it, the game was most lacking before - Empire Building?

So far, while we were promised "gunboat diplomacy" (whatever they mean by that), I can only see a minor step...not really backward, but to the side, with elimination of colonial buildings and going to a straight claims model.

Well, the question is, where's the Empire Building here? Will we have to worry about malaria? Distance to port? Native tribes? What about uncivilized states - can we force protectorates through diplomacy, mess with our puppets, etc.?

In the end, in order to be a sellable game, Vicky has to be a game about empire-building, not watching POPs decide whether they want tariffs at 15% or 5%. While exciting for people on this forum, it's not really exciting to the gaming public in general.

 

[unmerged(164401)]

don't understand what your question is, but concerning the last part, POPs are just an obsticale, standing in your way against your imperialistic ambitions. other than that, you are free to build your empire however you want.

speaking of such, i want to hear how uncivilized nations are handled in the game.

 

[Alexander Seil]

My question is, are there any new features to look forward to that would finally make imperialism exciting, rather than a click-rinse-and-repeat and/or whack-a-mole (invasion of an unciv) boredom that it was in Vicky.

 

[unmerged(164401)]

well, there is. if you went through the dev diaries, you can see that they added some diplomacy features like the "war goals" system and the "gun boat diplomacy". now about the colonization system, i think i have read some where that it will be handled in a separate dev diary. just have to be patient.

..but i don't think you should expect a revolutionary game either.

 

[nuarbnellaffej]

Don't forget all the jazz about the spheres of influence, I haven't heard much about it lately but it seems like it could be really interesting.

 

[unmerged(56465)]

Yeah, I'm anticipating the dev diary concerning the "gunboat diplomacy" more than any other. When you throw in what they mentioned about your investors demanding intervention to protect their overseas investments, it could be pretty promising.

 

[Alexander Seil]

Yeah, I'm anticipating the dev diary concerning the "gunboat diplomacy" more than any other. When you throw in what they mentioned about your investors demanding intervention to protect their overseas investments, it could be pretty promising.

Oh, yeah, I forgot the whole thing about bonds, I was quite ecstatic about that I guess that takes care of American adventurism in the Southern Hemisphere nicely.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Oh, yeah, I forgot the whole thing about bonds, I was quite ecstatic about that I guess that takes care of American adventurism in the Southern Hemisphere nicely.

And the French adventures in Mexico.

 

[Indefatigable]

I guess this kind of goes along with immigration, but will it be possible to send colonists to your colonies, along the lines of EUII, EUIII? It would be nice to have some POPs of your dominant culture going to the colonies.

 

[CaptRobau]

Well you should be able to do that by making the colonies a place people want to go to (by expanding RGOs, building factories, etc.). But this really simulates the later stage of colonialism when there was already a small group of European colonists who had built all built those factories, etc.

I do remember that the new bureaucrats POP has something to do with managing colonies so I expect some mechanism to send them there.

 

[unmerged(164401)]

don't like how colonization is delt with in Vicky. i hope they change it somehow. cant wait for the next DD already. damn, wednesdays were never the same for me.

 

[unmerged(22834)]

I agree with your concerns. I too have been a little worried about the oft repeated line "Victoria is about industrialisation and nation building". That's good and all, but I'd love a decent colonial system and a general "conquest" system which fits in with the diplomatic requirements of the day; not just a: attack something, capture it, next, etc. but a system where you gotta get the diplomatic clout to have your crap recognised.

I've often wondered if Victoria could be done like the HRE in Magna Mundi. That is, you can't just grab whatever you want, but you have to carefully plan what you wish to take else suffer economic and stability penalties (and not to mention, diplomatic excommunication and retribution) which make landgrabs more trouble than they're worth.

 

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Hasn't victoria always been all about the empire/state building?

 

[Alexander Seil]

Hasn't victoria always been all about the empire/state building?

The interaction of colonial nations with their prospective colonies in Victoria was always barely on the level of EUI. It was a disgrace of a model. In fact, if you paid attention - Victoria's colonization model was broken and never got fixed...colonial buildings basically didn't have their side effects (I mean missions and trade posts), there was no native unrest, and you couldn't really interact with other nations diplomatically outside of forming alliances.

EDIT: Of course it appears that they took a page from the latest updates/expansions to EU3, so diplomacy is no longer a complete waste of time, but there's still nothing known about colonization/diplomatic options only available towards uncivilized states that's reassuring.

 

[unmerged(91061)]

Hopefully the spheres of Influence system will allow for an "informal empire" like what Britain had over China, Argentina and Siam, where they have extensive "soft power" in a nation that gives them control or huge influence over various elements that they desire. Example: British gaining Opium from China.

 

[Sarmatia1871]

Yeah, I'm anticipating the dev diary concerning the "gunboat diplomacy" more than any other. When you throw in what they mentioned about your investors demanding intervention to protect their overseas investments, it could be pretty promising.

I would actually really like to see some sort of coherent overseas investment model, which was a hugely important aspect of economic development, international relations, empire-building and diplomacy in this period, but was completely lacking in any way in the first game.

It would be difficult to balance, but it would be really great if your capitalists could start building railways and factories in other countries (as historically happened all over this place), and this having big effects on their wealth, your diplomatic relations (and casus belli options), and the invested country's economy and political options (i.e. nationalize foreign factories and railroads, and risk war or blockade).

 

[unmerged(56465)]

I would actually really like to see some sort of coherent overseas investment model, which was a hugely important aspect of economic development, international relations, empire-building and diplomacy in this period, but was completely lacking in any way in the first game.

It would be difficult to balance, but it would be really great if your capitalists could start building railways and factories in other countries (as historically happened all over this place), and this having big effects on their wealth, your diplomatic relations (and casus belli options), and the invested country's economy and political options (i.e. nationalize foreign factories and railroads, and risk war or blockade).

That would be fantastic.

I guess this kind of goes along with immigration, but will it be possible to send colonists to your colonies, along the lines of EUII, EUIII? It would be nice to have some POPs of your dominant culture going to the colonies.

Apparently there will be some kind of "national focus" feature that will encourage people to move to the flagged area somehow, yes. I look forward to using it. The possibilities are endless...

 

[ComradeOm]

I guess this kind of goes along with immigration, but will it be possible to send colonists to your colonies, along the lines of EUII, EUIII? It would be nice to have some POPs of your dominant culture going to the colonies.

No thank you. The EUIII model works quite well for settling the new world but would be a terrible fit for the Vicky period

 

[unmerged(36774)]

No thank you. The EUIII model works quite well for settling the new world but would be a terrible fit for the Vicky period

And isn't that also that kind of micromanagement most players wouldn't like? When I tried playing EUIII or EUII this was one of those tasks I hated. Basicly it was something you had to do as often as it was possible. I really like micro management of Victoria I, but sending colonists isn't one of the things I would like to do.

That doesn't mean I don't want to have better way to control where my pops are moving than we had in Victoria I.

 

[ComradeOm]

And isn't that also that kind of micromanagement most players wouldn't like? When I tried playing EUIII or EUII this was one of those tasks I hated. Basicly it was something you had to do as often as it was possible. I really like micro management of Victoria I, but sending colonists isn't one of the things I would like to do

It was actually nicely streamlined in later expansions when you only had to send one colonist to a province and could later ignore his process if you wished