Emperor's Kings Cultures....

[bodhi]

Hi!

I'm playing as the Emperor and King of Italy and my culture is Italian. But I would like to maintain a variety of different cultures within my Empire. So, for example, in Western Hispania I want to have a Portuguese Kingdom.....to the East of Hispania I want a large Basque Kingdom of Navarra. In Egypt I want to maintain Egyptian culture, etc, etc.

So, despite being an Italian Emperor, I thought I could achieve this by placing Kings and Dukes of the respective culture I wanted to rule those kingdoms for me and maintain/convert the culture there. So for example, after conquering Andalusia (which had mainly the Andalusian culture) from the Muslims I split it into the two Kingdoms of Portugal and Navarra, and placed Kings and duke of the respective cultures (Portuguese and Navarran) to rule.

It has been 40+ years now but I do not see the cultures changing. If I had put Italian kings on the thrones I'm pretty sure the many of the provinces would have flipped to Italian by now.

Is what I'm trying to do even possible?

 

[RagingJaws]

40 years isn't that long of a time. MTTH for even the brightest stewards (Culture change is tied to stewardship level) is 31 years at any level of stewardship above 15.

I'm fairly certain that culture can change though, as it's tied to province ruler and not overall liege. It just takes a very long time, unless you're tribal.

 

[bodhi]

Ok, so I guess I just have to wait a lot longer. The reason I doubt is because to the north of Hispania I have an Italian King/Dukes ruling the Kingdom of Asturius and they are converting a lot quicker despite being established for only ~20 years and having just as terrible Stewardship as the Kings/dukes of Portugal and Navarra, who have both been ruling for ~40 and haven't converted a single province. Maybe they get some kind of "same culture" boost from their Emperor as all of my Italian Emperors have excellent Stewardship.

 

[kurthakon]

Looking at the events in question the triggers seems to suggest that you can only convert provinces to the top liege's culture (your character). I might be misinterpreting how the triggers works, but it seems like this is the case unfortunately.

Spoiler: Province culture conversion events

trigger = {
owner = {
top_liege = {
culture = PREV
}
NOT = { culture = ROOT }
religion = ROOT
}

# Province culture changes
province_event = {
    id = 55000
    desc = "EVTDESC55000"
    picture = GFX_evt_stone_church

    trigger = {
        owner = {
            top_liege = {
                culture = PREV
            }
            NOT = { culture = ROOT }
            religion = ROOT
        }
        any_neighbor_province = {
            has_owner = yes
            ROOT = {
                owner = {
                    culture = PREVPREV
                }
            }
            owner = {
                ROOT = {
                    owner = {
                        culture = PREVPREV
                    }
                }
            }
        }
        NOT = { # No flipping back to Norse culture before 1150
            AND = {
                owner = { culture = norse }
                ROOT = {
                    OR = {
                        culture = swedish
                        culture = norwegian
                        culture = danish
                        culture = norman
                    }
                }
                NOT = {    has_global_flag = norse_culture_flipping }
            }
        }
    }

    mean_time_to_happen = {
        months = 1200

        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 2 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 3 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 4 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 5 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 9 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 11 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 13 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 15 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = {
                OR = {
                    primary_title = {
                        conquest_culture = PREV
                    }
                    ROOT = {
                        county = {
                            conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                        }
                    }
                    ROOT = {
                        duchy = {
                            holder_scope = {
                                character = PREVPREVPREV
                            }
                            conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                        }
                    }
                    ROOT = {
                        kingdom = {
                            holder_scope = {
                                character = PREVPREVPREV
                            }
                            conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                        }
                    }
                    ROOT = {
                        empire = {
                            holder_scope = {
                                character = PREVPREVPREV
                            }
                            conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }

    option = {
        name = "EVTOPTA55000"
        owner = {
            ROOT = {
                culture = PREV
            }
        }
    }
}

# Bring in some settlers
province_event = {
    id = 55001
    desc = "EVTDESC55001"
    picture = GFX_evt_stone_church

    trigger = {
        owner = {
            top_liege = {
                culture = PREV
            }
            NOT = { culture = ROOT }
            capital_scope = {
                province_id = ROOT
            }
      
            OR = {
                primary_title = {
                    conquest_culture = PREV
                }
                ROOT = {
                    county = {
                        conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                    }
                }
                ROOT = {
                    duchy = {
                        holder_scope = {
                            character = PREVPREVPREV
                        }
                        conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                    }
                }
                ROOT = {
                    kingdom = {
                        holder_scope = {
                            character = PREVPREVPREV
                        }
                        conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                    }
                }
                ROOT = {
                    empire = {
                        holder_scope = {
                            character = PREVPREVPREV
                        }
                        conquest_culture = PREVPREV
                    }
                }
            }
        }
  
        NOT = { # Exclude provinces covered by event 55000
            any_neighbor_province = {
                has_owner = yes
                ROOT = {
                    owner = {
                        culture = PREVPREV
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    ROOT = {
                        owner = {
                            culture = PREVPREV
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }
  
        NOT = { # No flipping back to Norse culture before 1150
            AND = {
                owner = { culture = norse }
                ROOT = {
                    OR = {
                        culture = swedish
                        culture = norwegian
                        culture = danish
                        culture = norman
                    }
                }
                NOT = {    has_global_flag = norse_culture_flipping }
            }
        }
    }

    mean_time_to_happen = {
        months = 1200
  
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 2 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 3 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 4 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            owner = { NOT = { stewardship = 5 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 9 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 11 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 13 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.75
            owner = { stewardship = 15 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0.5 # Altaic nomad steppe bonus vs non-Altaics
            owner = {
                culture_group = altaic
            }
            OR = {
                owner = {
                    is_capital = ROOT
                }
                AND = {
                    NOT = { culture_group = altaic }
                    terrain = steppe
                }
            }
        }
    }

    option = {
        name = "EVTOPTA55001"
        owner = {
            ROOT = {
                culture = PREV
                if = {
                    limit = {
                        NOT = { religion = PREV }
                    }
                    religion = PREV
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

Also the wiki has some light information on conversion: http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Culture#Province_conversion

Edit: Also want to note that only the ruler's stewardship who directly controls the counties matters in the calculation (MTTH) of the conversion events.
Edit2: Additionally, some CBs attaches a conquering culture (Italian if your character declared war) which makes culture conversion much quicker in the conquered land, and also makes it so that the provinces doesn't need to border another province with culture of the ruler to be able to convert.

 

[bodhi]

Yeah, unfortunately, looks like you might be correct. My observations confirm this also, as none of my non-Italian kings/dukes are converting anything to their own culture.

I was hoping for a variety in cultures all over my Empire. But it probably wouldn't matter anyhow because every single culture simply marries Germanic racial type and everyone in my game is simply looking like Germans, no matter what their culture is.

Pretty bland and simple mechanics all-round. but hey, we got the wonderful new Plague DLC to look forward to....with added diseases! That should help add to the intricacy/depth of Empire management that we all crave.

 

[klopkr]

Provinces can only flip tot he top lieges cultures. It's lame I know.

 

[RagingJaws]

Did a test game. I'm 95% certain that only tribals can spread their culture around even if their top liege is a different culture by using the settle tribe option. This won't help with already feudal realms, so you're best hope for a culturally diverse empire would be in the north or in the baltic states. The proto-Russian cultures (I'm sure some here will lynch me for using that term) have a special culture event that ruins any work on that, so avoid Russia.

Pretty bland and simple mechanics all-round. but hey, we got the wonderful new Plague DLC to look forward to....with added diseases! That should help add to the intricacy/depth of Empire management that we all crave.

Game isn't about empire management. It's a dynastic simulator that has "Empires". Greatly improved with DLC's, for sure, but for a true Empire simulator you should look to EU4 and Vicky. Would be nice for an even more detailed and varied set of options that empires can take advantage of, to further distinguish them from being simply large Kingdoms but I don't think the game really needs it. It'd be nice but it's not necessary.

On the other hand, the prosperity system being added with the next DLC is *very* needed considering how it'll improve the game. For players that enjoy playing smaller kingdoms or ruling empires that are "poorer" in holding size, finally having the ability to add holdings gives the player a chance to build tall for protection. Rather than just wide. So good.