Emperor can't upgrade to kingdom or empire

[rizla7]

The terms imperium/imperator or empire/emperor were often employed for the German kingdom and its rulers, which indicates a recognition of their imperial stature but combined with "Teutonic" and "Alemannic" references a denial of their Romanitas and universal rule. The term regnum Germaniae (literally "Kingdom of Germany") begins to appear even in German sources at the beginning of the fourteenth century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany#Terminology

end of debate? the emperor in waiting was also called 'king'. someone who rules over multiple kingdoms/duchies cannot be an archduke.

i'm only right because i'm the emperor. l'etat c'est moi, or something to that effect.

 

[I'm gaming]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany#Terminology

end of debate? the emperor in waiting was also called 'king'. someone who rules over multiple kingdoms/duchies cannot be an archduke.

King of Rome or king of Germany were 'King' without 'Kingdom'.

And although 'Archduke of Austria' has several king titles, it doesn't mean that 'Archduchy of Austria' should be 'Kingdom of Austria'.

 

[zsImmortal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany#Terminology

end of debate? the emperor in waiting was also called 'king'. someone who rules over multiple kingdoms/duchies cannot be an archduke.

i'm only right because i'm the emperor. l'etat c'est moi, or something to that effect.

The title of King of the Romans or King of the Germans is an honorary title. It has no associated lands.

You're also mistaking the title of Archduke with that of the Emperor. The Archduke part is ONLY of Austria. It is the archduchy of Austria, but the Habsburgs would also kings of Bohemia, kings of Hungary, dukes of Burgundy, etc. But through all this, they were Holy Roman Emperors, which was the most important title. So even if your title as Austria is 'duchy' or 'archduchy', you're in actuality the Emperor. If you pop up the HRE thing, you'll see the benefits of being Emperor : increased taxes, increased manpower, additional diplo slot, additional leader, etc. You get more if you pass reforms.

The game is piss poor at showing the HRE as it was, an actual entity, not a confetti of states (at least, not in that bad a way compared to other 'feudal' states). But on that level, the emperor clearly gets better bonuses than being a simply duke.

 

[rizla7]

semantics... can't you troll somewhere else?

i already outlined emperor bonuses, they are inferior to kingdom rank. waste of time that mess is... just form germany and wipe that useless empire from the face of exploit universalis.

 

[zsImmortal]

semantics... can't you troll somewhere else?

i already outlined emperor bonuses, they are inferior to kingdom rank. waste of time that mess is... just form germany and wipe that useless empire from the face of exploit universalis.

This has to be a joke. Emperor bonus are significantly better than kingdom rank, even empire rank. Like, it's not even close to being comparable. They only lack the extra diplo which they get on second reform (?).

 

[rizla7]

This has to be a joke. Emperor bonus are significantly better than kingdom rank

please list the ones that matter, so we may laugh in unison; unless you do not understand the concept of autonomy.

legitimacy? prestige? who needs those... i have too much to burn... you're basically talking about 5% tax bonus and -10% coring cost vs -0.10 autonomy/month... and an extra diplomat... 150 years earlier (unless you start as elector/austria/bohemia).

 

[zsImmortal]

please list the ones that matter, so we may laugh in unison; unless you do not understand the concept of autonomy.

legitimacy? prestige? who needs those... i have too much to burn... you're basically talking about 5% tax bonus and -10% coring cost vs -0.10 autonomy/month... and an extra diplomat 150 years earlier.

(Before reforms)

+5% Spy offense
+1 Possible advisors
+1 Diplomatic relations
+1 Leaders without upkeep
+1 Yearly prestige

Additional for every member state:

+0.5 Land force limit
+500 Manpower increase

Additional for every Free City:

+2 Tax income
+0.5 Land force limit
+1000 Manpower increase

The member state and free city bonuses dwarf whatever government type bonus you can get.

 

[rizla7]

all garbage bonuses in the face of -0.10 autonomy.

80% of those don't even matter... (and you didn't even list the ones that do: reforms)... facepalm...

i have 150,000 manpower... don't need another 3000...

don't need another 20 ducats when i'm making 300+...

what i need is kingdom rank... you know... to annex provinces? so they're not worth dirt?

 

[Taase]

While I mostly agree with how it is in game due to how it was in history I agree with the immersion breaking of going directly from duke to empire. Also the benefits given to other kingdoms feels punishing not to have.

What about giving the Emperor of HRE kingdom rank after claiming Erbkaiserum. At this point the emperor has surpassed any historic counterpart and its not unthinkable that declaring himself king would be accepted by the dukes.

 

[rizla7]

What about giving the Emperor of HRE kingdom rank after claiming Erbkaiserum. At this point the emperor has surpassed any historic counterpart and its not unthinkable that declaring himself king would be accepted by the dukes.

if the dukes have a problem with it, i can just slap them around again... they've already felt the heel of my boot multiple dozens of times. l'etat c'est moi! and that's just that... if i just conquered the king of england, you will call me king, or i will bury your mother alive, eat your children, and kill your sisters - as constantine would often say.

problem with erbk, is that for a nation like holland, who doesn't start as emperor, and under a PU, you can't reform before religious leagues unless you pull out all the hacks. as for obtaining 300 dev, that's easy... not sure how long, but 100 years?

 

[zsImmortal]

all garbage bonuses in the face of -0.10 autonomy.

80% of those don't even matter... (and you didn't even list the ones that do: reforms)... facepalm...

i have 150,000 manpower... don't need another 3000...

don't need another 20 ducats when i'm making 300+...

what i need is kingdom rank... you know... to annex provinces? so they're not worth dirt?

At that point of the game, it doesn't even matter whether you're a duchy or an empire since you're beyond the AI's reach. Getting 26 bonus force limit and 30 000 manpower is pretty significant in 1444, not to mention a free leader and bonus diplo slot.

 

[rizla7]

At that point of the game, it doesn't even matter whether you're a duchy or an empire since you're beyond the AI's reach. Getting 26 bonus force limit and 30 000 manpower is pretty significant in 1444, not to mention a free leader and bonus diplo slot.

again, how do you pass reforms that early if you're holland? you can't even prevent austria/bburg/bohemia/etc... blobbing in the first 50+ years... not to mention, emperor may live for 50 years... those bonuses are peanuts when you're another nation who inherits the mess the empire is 50-100 years later, at which time protestant reformation fires, and you're left with another 100-150+ years of no reforms... bad game design is what it is... RNG PU mechanics...

inb4; viewing this from the lens of a single country is a fallacy. just like condensing feudalism to 400 years of history is...

 

[Taase]

problem with erbk, is that for a nation like holland, who doesn't start as emperor, and under a PU, you can't reform before religious leagues unless you pull out all the hacks. as for obtaining 300 dev, that's easy... not sure how long, but 100 years?

Well as Holland you can form Netherlands and become Kingdom that way.
But the combined forces of Austria, Bohemia and Brandenburg or other powerful princes would object that you would still be part of HRE though and hence why you are removed from the Empire.

If you want to stay inside to play the "Game of Thrones" and eventually end up as a true emperor.

 

[zsImmortal]

again, how do you pass reforms that early if you're holland? you can't even prevent austria/bburg/bohemia/etc... blobbing in the first 50+ years... not to mention, emperor may live for 50 years... those bonuses are peanuts when you're another nation who inherits the mess the empire is 50-100 years later, at which time protestant reformation fires, and you're left with another 100-150+ years of no reforms... bad game design is what it is... RNG PU mechanics...

inb4; viewing this from the lens of a single country is a fallacy. just like condensing feudalism to 400 years of history is...

Maybe it's because Holland isn't cut out to be emperor until it can actually protect the princes, so if you're maneuvering your way into the seat, make sure you can actually do something. You still get a nice bonus to manpower and force limit, get some allies and beat the princes out of people. It's hardly difficult to achieve significant power in the first 100 years.

Calling it bad game design is just dumb. The HRE should be much more cohesive and passive, and the throne should always go to Austria. But they made it so that you can play princes and have fun with them, so if you don't like HRE mechanics, don't play in it. You can just leave the HRE and raise yourself to kingdom or empire rank and get elected emperor, so you get all the bonuses of being emperor and the empire rank.

 

[Pornek]

all garbage bonuses in the face of -0.10 autonomy.

80% of those don't even matter... (and you didn't even list the ones that do: reforms)... facepalm...

i have 150,000 manpower... don't need another 3000...

don't need another 20 ducats when i'm making 300+...

what i need is kingdom rank... you know... to annex provinces? so they're not worth dirt?

If you dont need ducats and manpower, what exactly is the problem with provinces being worth dirt ?

 

[rizla7]

Calling it bad game design is just dumb.

pretending like archduke is the sovereign of multiple kingdoms and duchies is the better joke.

If you dont need ducats and manpower, what exactly is the problem with provinces being worth dirt ?

let me rephrase (no wait, you just misread my statement)...: i don't need 3000 manpower... i need 300,000 manpower. which kingdom rank -autonomy bonus can give you, while emperor cannot. better?

you know what would be the better option here: just obliterate the entire HRE to prove how pointless this discussion is... because if you can, then they have no right to object to your emperorship... elector or not, fancy PU and brie cheese or not... when you die, it doesn't matter if you're wearing an armani tuxedo or a pink knitted sweater... a dead noble is as good as a dead peasant... actually worth less, since you can use the peasant as fertilizer.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

let me rephrase (no wait, you just misread my statement)...: i don't need 3000 manpower... i need 300,000 manpower. which kingdom rank -autonomy bonus can give you, while emperor cannot. better?

Awesome news. The new patch will fix this problem for us. According to the latest dev diary, Noble estates will no longer apply autonomy to manpower and force limit. Powerful nobles will soon mean bigger army.

 

[illathid]

Actually, in my Fremperor game it was the ducal 25-year cooldown on national focus change that was by far the biggest loss. As you said, you get the diplomat back with the 2nd reform, plus more diplomats from ideas. Autonomy schmautonomy, doesn't matter that much. But the cooldown...

That's actually one thing I would add to the HREmporer. I think it would help a lot of the complaints.

 

[zsImmortal]

pretending like archduke is the sovereign of multiple kingdoms and duchies is the better joke.

Are you serious? I explained it to you before. The Holy Roman EMPEROR is an EMPEROR. He gets bonuses as the EMPEROR of the Holy Roman EMPIRE. The ARCHDUCHY of Austria is a title. The ARCHDUKE of Austria can also be EMPEROR of the Holy Roman EMPIRE. They are not mutually exclusive titles. Go read up on the period instead of looking at rigid game mechanics.

Here's what Charles V's résumé looked like :

Charles, by the grace of God, Holy Roman Emperor, forever August, King of Germany, King of Italy, King of all Spains, of Castile, Aragon, León, of Hungary, of Dalmatia, of Croatia, Navarra, Grenada, Toledo, Valencia, Galicia, Majorca, Sevilla, Cordova, Murcia, Jaén, Algarves, Algeciras, Gibraltar, the Canary Islands, King of Two Sicilies, of Sardinia, Corsica, King of Jerusalem, King of the Western and Eastern Indies, of the Islands and Mainland of the Ocean Sea, Archduke of Austria, Duke of Burgundy, Brabant, Lorraine, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola, Limburg, Luxembourg, Gelderland, Neopatria, Württemberg, Landgrave of Alsace, Prince of Swabia, Asturia and Catalonia, Count of Flanders, Habsburg, Tyrol, Gorizia, Barcelona, Artois, Burgundy Palatine, Hainaut, Holland, Seeland, Ferrette, Kyburg, Namur, Roussillon, Cerdagne, Drenthe, Zutphen, Margrave of the Holy Roman Empire, Burgau, Oristano and Gociano, Lord of Frisia, the Wendish March, Pordenone, Biscay, Molin, Salins, Tripoli and Mechelen.

 

[Pornek]

Let me rephrase (no wait, you just misread my statement)...: i don't need 3000 manpower... i need 300,000 manpower. which kingdom rank -autonomy bonus can give you, while emperor cannot. better?

Use the 50k manpower and 30 forcelimit from becoming emporer to decrease autonomy upon conquest and use a dedicated stack against rebels.

Though at 150k manpower extra manpower doesnt even matter. That in the area of at least 800 development. At that point manpower is just a number.