“Embrace the Challenge” - Skirmish Hero Lances (HM SPOILERS)

[Havamal]

@Havamal, I am intrigued by @ronhatch ‘s response. Can you please move this entire thread to the Mod Subforum? I believe this topic is more of a Modding Community opportunity than anything else.

Yep.
Charging Jump Drive...
...

Edit:Transit to new system complete.


Thank you.

 

[Hobbes__]

That is a very definitive listing. Thank you Good @ranger101 :bow:


Hmm... this raises the question of whether or not our Modding Community can reach into HEAVY METAL far enough to lift and shift the two “Hero” Lances already in the game and move them (in a Mod) to Single Player Skirmish Mode.

@ronhatch, @Amechwarrior, @CWolfs, @Hobbes__ and any others who may come across this post, is HEAVY METAL malleable enough to make the Bounty Hunter’s and Black Widow’s Command Lances available in Single Player Skirmish Mode?

My gut instinct tells me that since both Lances are behind the HEAVY METAL Pay Wall that this just might be a bridge too far.

To my knowledge, the only Heavy Metal assets behind the paywall are the bundles that contain the models for the 8 new 'Mechs. The Black Widow and BH lance abilities coding is present in the 1.8 release, so you should be able to use those in any other 'Mech.
The only reason why the BH/BW 'Mechs don't appear in Skirmish mode is because they have a <BLACKLISTED> tag, the same as the SLDF Highlander, Black Knight, Atlas and Griffin. Remove the tag and they'll appear in Skirmish mode, although that also means that those 'Mechs can appear as reinforcements during contracts.

But then that brings me full circle and back to @ranger101 ‘s post, is it possible to replicate HEAVY METAL’s “Hero” Lances and Lance-level Special Abilities without delving into HEAVY METAL’s code? Is it possible to craft our Modding Communities very own versions of BattleTech “Hero” Lances, complete with Lance-level abilities across any number of historic or fictional Lances?

I'm almost sure that at least RogueTech has already created unique 'Mech abilities, although they're not applied at a lance level. Creating those abilities requires a deeper knowledge of coding that greatly exceeds my skills, so I'm not really an expert, but I'm already creating some unique 'hero' Mechs and lances (like the pirate captain 'Mechs in the Hyades Rim), although I haven't considered yet any specific abilities for them.

 

[Kereminde]

although that also means that those 'Mechs can appear as reinforcements during contracts.

... I'm going to admit, suddenly that sounds kind of frightening and awesome. But mostly terrifying to have the idea the Bounty Hunter is coming for you, specifically.

 

[ronhatch]

I'm almost sure that at least RogueTech has already created unique 'Mech abilities, although they're not applied at a lance level. Creating those abilities requires a deeper knowledge of coding that greatly exceeds my skills, so I'm not really an expert, but I'm already creating some unique 'hero' Mechs and lances (like the pirate captain 'Mechs in the Hyades Rim), although I haven't considered yet any specific abilities for them.

Using abilities that already exist shouldn't be as hard as making new ones. On the other hand... AI abilities have to be handled a bit differently than player abilities, and while the code for skirmish mode is mostly the same as career/campaign mode there's no guarantee that the relevant bits work at all with skirmish mode.

 

[Hobbes__]

On the other hand... AI abilities have to be handled a bit differently than player abilities, and while the code for skirmish mode is mostly the same as career/campaign mode there's no guarantee that the relevant bits work at all with skirmish mode.

Interesting... while I agree that there's no guarantee that everything works in skirmish as in career/campaign, I think it would be a curious design decision not to allow Skirmish mode to use and test every feature related to 'Mechs in combat.

But since testing is the best way to answer the issue, I've done some testing of my own using Skirmish mode and this is what I found/confirmed:
1) Those 'Mechs can be added to Skirmish mode by removing the <BLACKLISTED> tag;
2) Those 'Mechs don't possess the BW/BH lance abilities, it's the pilots (Natasha and the Bounty Hunter and all their lance mates on the final FP contract) that have those skills;
3) If you give the BW/BH special skills to one of the Skirmish pilots, they'll work on Skirmish, as my poor Locust discovered after being hit by an AI pilot with the Widow's Kiss ability;

Although in vanilla these special abilities are assigned only to the BW/BH pilots, it should possible to create an Upgrade that gives those abilities to the 'Mech where it is installed, in alternative to issuing those abilities to other pilots.
However, getting the whole lance to have them is slightly more complicated since either all the pilots or the 'Mechs would need to be assigned those skills.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Interesting... while I agree that there's no guarantee that everything works in skirmish as in career/campaign, I think it would be a curious design decision not to allow Skirmish mode to use and test every feature related to 'Mechs in combat.

But since testing is the best way to answer the issue, I've done some testing of my own using Skirmish mode and this is what I found/confirmed:
1) Those 'Mechs can be added to Skirmish mode by removing the <BLACKLISTED> tag;
2) Those 'Mechs don't possess the BW/BH lance abilities, it's the pilots (Natasha and the Bounty Hunter and all their lance mates on the final FP contract) that have those skills;
3) If you give the BW/BH special skills to one of the Skirmish pilots, they'll work on Skirmish, as my poor Locust discovered after being hit by an AI pilot with the Widow's Kiss ability;

View attachment 537628

Although in vanilla these special abilities are assigned only to the BW/BH pilots, it should possible to create an Upgrade that gives those abilities to the 'Mech where it is installed, in alternative to issuing those abilities to other pilots.
However, getting the whole lance to have them is slightly more complicated since either all the pilots or the 'Mechs would need to be assigned those skills.

Thank you Good @Hobbes__! :bow:

This is highly encouraging. I just can express how enthused and exciting your news is here. For a variety of reasons, boosting the AI has been a special focus for me. Something like what you describe above will add priceless tools to the AI’s kitbag, especially when used in conjunction with @Amechwarrior ’s BETTER AI Mod.

One question though, when BH/BW Special Abilities were added to one of the Skirmish Pilots, did all or only a 1 in 12 subset of AI MechWarriors pick up the Special Ability?

 

[Hobbes__]

One question though, when BH/BW Special Abilities were added to one of the Skirmish Pilots, did all or only a 1 in 12 subset of AI MechWarriors pick up the Special Ability?

Only 1 - I gave the abilities to Apex.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Only 1 - I gave the abilities to Apex.

This is intriguing. I’ve never thought of it before more seen it referred to here but doe the AI in an unattributed manner, make use of the 12 Skirmish MechWarriors as its baseline of AI MechWarriors?

 

[unclecid]

actually...what I would like to see is our modding community bring these 'hero' lances more inline with their weapon loadouts from the various scenario books that match the games timeline.
i mean ok..i get it...they wanted to showcase the new toys in HM.
and while i can kinda live with BW/BH lances loadouts...mostly.....what they did with the BHs Marauder is well...disappointing.

Marauder
Originally Natasha Kerensky's personal 'Mech, her Marauder subsequently became the Bounty Hunter's signature 'Mech of choice between 3014 and the Clan Invasion, triggering a well known animosity between them both. Shortly after acquiring it, the Bounty Hunter customized it following heavy damage it sustained during a Periphery mission, mounting a lighter 225-rated engine to mount jump jets to offset the lower speed and replaced the GM Whirlwind AC/5 with another Magna Hellstar PPC and three addition Magna Mk II Medium Lasers. A swap to Star League-era double heat sinks from a cache found in that same mission allowed the improvement of its armor by three tons.

this could have easily been done.
i know...i did it myself back when Flashpoint came out using Solhama Joe's MAD as the base.

at the very least....they could have dropped the ac5 and added JJ....what they gave us was NOT the Bounty Hunters MAD it was just some random customized mech.
the BH MAD is supposed to be a heavily modified one-of-a-kind mech.

probably gonna work on the BHs mad this weekend for my next run-thru.

i mean i LOVED the mini-campaign....it was great fun and a decent challenge and was very happy until i actualy encountered the BH in his MAD and its configuration TOTALLYtoo the wind out of my sails.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

actually...what I would like to see is our modding community bring these 'hero' lances more inline with their weapon loadouts from the various scenario books that match the games timeline.
i mean ok..i get it...they wanted to showcase the new toys in HM...

I agree with you completely.

My thought was that if we can achieve Skirmish Mode “Hero” Lances worming with the exact same Lances that are already in the game, then we can most likely extend that success to all manner of “Named” and “Faction Typical” Hero Lances.

And of course a third phase just might see all these Hero Lances available in Multiplayer for some truly spectacular PvP reenacting famous battles throughout the length and breadth of BattleTech’s timeline. Each Lance can be evaluated and assigned a Cbill Value which would be visible to players just as Cbill Values are already visibile in BATTLETECH Multiplayer.

Then our friend-based BATTLETECH matchmaking in the game’s lobby or in a BATTLETECH discord could see our trim but active BATTLETECH Multiplayer Community Spot each other this Hero Lance it that Hero Lance as a sort of handicapping system. : )


That’s what I’d like to see and work toward. :bow:

 

[unclecid]

well this weekend i plan on 'adjusting' the BH-MAD to be more in line with what it should be for my next career run thru

 

[Hobbes__]

This is intriguing. I’ve never thought of it before more seen it referred to here but doe the AI in an unattributed manner, make use of the 12 Skirmish MechWarriors as its baseline of AI MechWarriors?

No. The AI uses generic pilots, chosen according to the difficulty level of the mission and the definitions of each lance used by the AI:

 

[Prussian Havoc]

No. The AI uses generic pilots, chosen according to the difficulty level of the mission and the definitions of each lance used by the AI:
View attachment 538282

Ahhh...

Please bear with me as I try to understand an earlier comment you made reference an AI MechWarrior with Widow’s Kiss.

When you have Apex Widow’s Kiss, it unexpectedly propagated over to an random AI MechWarrior?