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unmerged(148774)

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Child labor is an issue that could be dealt with in Vicky 2. Political reforms could be expensive but it could effect population growth and the desirability of your country to immigrate to.

You could start to see female sprites after the Women's suffrage movement or perhaps when you elect a socialist government.

However, even if there are no sprites, I am sure the women's position in society should be correctly abstracted for.

I must say, I am all for gender equality in this present day and age. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case in Victorian times. To try and change that radically is historical revisionism at its finest.
 

Therion

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You can imagine POPs to be consisting of whatever gender you'd like. Seriously, the only problem seems to be those small POP graphics? Perhaps they could make them more androgynous to suit your tastes? :rolleyes:
 

QQ01

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Why not have upper, middle and working class POPs of women represented simply for flavour.

Also if such a thing were to be implemented, the working class women should be able to work on "farm" RGOs, at least in the beginning of the game, since it wasn't until the industrial revolution and the urbanisation process really took place that the womans role as the child upbringer were solidified.
 
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RedRalphWiggum

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Reactionary is just the extreme form of conservative. The reactionaries and anarcho-liberals would likely get a more exagerated increase in militancy/consciousness than their less extreme counterparts in such an instance as granting female suffrage.

Yeah, sounds fair. Maybe to simulate their having more spending power, their could be a slight increase in demand for consumer goods too?
 

Zelvik

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IMO, dividing POPs by gender creates unnecessary complexities but I guess it wouldn't really bother me anyway.

For most of the timeperiod the question of gender wasnt that important but with industrialization and the following transformation of societies it became relevant in terms of tapping available workforce. It was especially important during times of war (WW1 saw many women in factories). So having that process represented in some way (triggering some events if pluralism and conciousness is high enough in a pop) that it will either increase your productivity from that pop if you meet certain conditions like universal suffrage for women, or it could give you a + on militancy if you dont meet them.
 

The Andy-Man

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Why not have upper, middle and working class POPs of women represented simply for flavour.

Personaly, I think they should do that for pops in general,.

For most of the timeperiod the question of gender wasnt that important but with industrialization and the following transformation of societies it became relevant in terms of tapping available workforce.

Well, the game runs 1836-1936 (I think), womens rights and other related things started becoming issues around the 1890's, which is to say, for nearly HALF the time period it was an issue.


Also, I didn't start the thread because I wand to see tiny pictures of pretty girls on the POP icon :mad:
 

ashandresash

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The best is sometimes a foe of the better

Perhaps the effect of women would be best represented through POP efficiency. Moreover, in countries where a female workforce is allowed, POPs become more efficient (due to more of those POPs from the 1:4 ratio being involved in working).

The same thing could be applied for child labour. In such a case, there could be all sorts of literacy/research penalties if you have children in your workforce - they're not at school, afterall.

I find it fair, but we'd have some problems with balance:

a) I If you increase POP efficiency, you're increasing production maintaining costs (wages). Product prices would slow down, demand of the products would increase and net effect would depend also of workforce reduction because of higher production efficiency. I would find it correct if it was the consequence of increased productivity (as tech development would do), instead of the consequence of more people willing to work.

b) In the other hand, if you instead increase POP size (from 1/4 to 1/3 of total population because of women and children working for example), there'd be more unemployment. Depending of previous situacion (workforce shortage or abundance) it would affect on production and/or wages. I find it WAD, and better than increasing POP efficiency.

Problem comes in "b" with full employment and POP needs: demand wouldn't work as suposed. If two wages come home you don't demand double of life goods, like bread, but increase your saves or your demand of luxury goods. Otherwise, it could be considered negligible, because of low wages.

c) Of course, best solution would be representation of female POPs (and children). But maybe too much complex.

As three possibilities give complications, I think it should be better managed as a political issue (increasing militancy on conservatives or in progressives, depending your election), economic consequences be abstracted like a little boost in production, and as Palisadoes suggested, affecting in literacy growth in lower classes (increased if women work, reduced if children do).

And the same for women suffrage: if there's no female POPs, effect should be abstracted. I'd do it affecting issues while there's no a decision about it (alienating conservatives overall till things are decided; once done, maybe increasing religiousness in poorer classes).
 

Andrelvis

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Will we get to see hordes of POPs of housewives rising up in rebellion in 1845? :D
 
Nov 22, 2009
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Will we get to see hordes of POPs of housewives rising up in rebellion in 1845? :D

Why not, it happened during the French revolution (and many other places... usually when there's too much hunger).

I think a good solution to this one would be embedded pops(women and children), part of a pop that would be in the population count but would be active for vote and workforce only after (or before) certain reforms.
 
May 29, 2007
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That means more work for Paradox however, not to mention a massive amount of additional research and work. Paradox would be better served I think if they went an ethnic route, after all those Ethiopion capitalists did not look much like their British bretheren!

Common - we're talking about a few sprites here, which would be a good start. This is perhaps the easiest part of making a game, since that kind of graphics do not need any sort of debugging. I find the idea mentioned earlier good: the possibility to enact female work-rights. In the ledger, you could see the difference, in that a new sprite shows up for pops, at least in upper classes (since the mining-industry didn't make any difference from the beginning on), showing some women. Also, this could be reversly used for child work: once the laws agains childwork are passed, paf: new sprite and no more kids shown in lower classes.
Should time be an issue, I hereby volonteer doing the sprite this afternoon, if provided with a palette.

And while I'm posting on this thread, do you guys realise how disgustingly offensive some of your posts are toward women in general?

Totally agree: this is shocking or ridiculous. In the Hoi forum, they kick you if you even jockingly put some swastikas. And here we read about presumely guys would argue that women are unable to study history or geography. Do you realize that it's like joking about the rich jews who control the fate of the world ?
Mods ? Where are the mods when you need them ? Or are all the people in here men ...
 
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OHgamer

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Thread closed. The degree of misogyny being expressed by some of the posts in this thread is really rather shocking, and this thread will be reviewed for potential disciplinary action.

We have several female players in the Victoria community, and I will wager many more who are simply lurkers, in large part due to some of the attitudes of male players that have been expressed in this thread.

Until such time as Paradox decide to make a development diary that would address some of the issues raised in the original post, this topic will remain closed.
 
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