Elective Succession Problem

[tuareg109]

Okay guys so I have Elective Succession in the County of Carrick.

My character had a son, half-brother, and uncle who were all the same age; they all turned 16 in the same year, and I wanted to name the uncle successor.
BUT, for some unknown reason, he wasn't in the "Nominate" screen/list, while the son, half-brother, another son, two courtiers, two mayors, one bishop all were.

I can make neither heads nor tails of the exclusion of the best guy in my realm. He was of my dynasty (though that doesn't seem to matter, see the mayors, bishop, and courtiers), he was of age (doesn't matter, one son was underage), IN MY REALM (in case any of you thought I just didn't see that), and my direct courtier (just like some of the other candidates).

So, what gives? I can't figure it out.

 

[Mehmed2]

Possible nominees are the children of the current ruler and in the case of a county the mayors and bishops. and for example If you were holy roman emperor the possible nominees would be your children, the dukes and kings of the realm.

 

[tuareg109]

Possible nominees are the children of the current ruler and in the case of a county the mayors and bishops. and for example If you were holy roman emperor the possible nominees would be your children, the dukes and kings of the realm.

Then why was my half-brother available to nominate?
In fact, he became the Count after his half-brother died; now the son of Count1 is his heir. Still no uncle in the equation.

This mechanic doesn't make sense to me because if you think about it, a dynasty could die off so easily then, with elective. There's a boy-king with no brothers, his father is dead, and the only available heirs are non-dynastic vassals. It would make much more sense if he could also elect his uncles.

 

[Eldorian]

Possible nominees are the children of the current ruler and in the case of a county the mayors and bishops. and for example If you were holy roman emperor the possible nominees would be your children, the dukes and kings of the realm.

Dukes and kings of the DEJURE realm. At least, in my experience.

 

[Claudius8110]

Use Seniority successsion in this case and he will be eligible to inherit.

 

[tuareg109]

Use Seniority successsion in this case and he will be eligible to inherit.

Yes, he'd be eligible, but his great-nephew (my current Count's nephew) would be first in line, as he is 8 months older.

Dukes and kings of the DEJURE realm. At least, in my experience.

De Jure doesn't matter in this case, it's 3 counties ruled by one man. I have 3 mayors and 3 bishops voting.

 

[eumelbear]

Possible nominees are the children of the current ruler and in the case of a county the mayors and bishops. and for example If you were holy roman emperor the possible nominees would be your children, the dukes and kings of the realm.

No, any dynasty member should be eligible. I have been able to nominate dynasty members even when they were outside my realm (but not title holders). However, he did disappear from the list after a while despite still being alive... That rather confused me. Come to think of it, I think I was able to nominate dynasty members who held foreign titles as well.

 

[tuareg109]

No, any dynasty member should be eligible. I have been able to nominate dynasty members even when they were outside my realm (but not title holders). However, he did disappear from the list after a while despite still being alive... That rather confused me. Come to think of it, I think I was able to nominate dynasty members who held foreign titles as well.

What the hell then!
He's NOT matrilineally married, if that matters at all; and he has GREAT stats (why I want him to be Count, of course).
The only other thing I can think of is his being Homosexual?

 

[Eldorian]

De Jure doesn't matter in this case, it's 3 counties ruled by one man. I have 3 mayors and 3 bishops voting.

I was responding to the second example in his post.

 

[tuareg109]

I was responding to the second example in his post.

Ah, okay.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

No, any dynasty member should be eligible. I have been able to nominate dynasty members even when they were outside my realm (but not title holders). However, he did disappear from the list after a while despite still being alive... That rather confused me. Come to think of it, I think I was able to nominate dynasty members who held foreign titles as well.

I could use a definitive explanation myself. As King of Italy, I'm able to nominate some of my dynasty from the King of England to a lowly courtier female, yet conversely can not nominate some of my kin who are dukes and in upper HRE. Out of 208 living dynasty I can nominate maybe 19 and sadly this last 100 year stretch is replete with stress traits, illness and some unelectable traits. Hopefully, I have awhile before I die -- if anyone makes sense of this, I'm listening. It may change who I elect as well.

P.S. To the OP:
tuareg109 if you have to use Senority to survive that's one thing, but I've found it torturous with factions if the heir and pretrenders have less than optimal traits-- though maybe early game you'd be OK. Just my 2 cents. I turn the homosexuals into bishops (snarky comments avoided) ...so I'm not sure. I'll see if I can load a save and find out as one just made bishop.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

Updated Post: What I show so far (and you'd have to scale down) is that I can nominate any child of a prior king in my dnasty, the dukes of the dejure kingdom, and it appears the dukes heir and/or eligible heir if they are part of my dynasty (this part is inconsistent among the dynasty/non-dynasty dukes in my kingdom, trying to figure it out) and, of course, my kids. I still feel I'm missing something but from a nominal look that is what I've discovered as to relationship.

Ok tuareg109 -- confirming you can nominate homosexuals...in this case it is my son. I then loaded the prior heir and I could not elect any grand kids (including the aforementioned) and the list is much shorter, I notice. I want to say it has something to do with agnatic-cognatic succession underpinnings but haven't confirmed this.

 

[Alyiakal]

The way elective works is that you need to be the child of a current monarch (or grandchild ONLY if said parent is deceased), hold an elector title, or have a claim to the throne in some way.

In the case of your uncle, the common ancestor would be your grandfather/his father. Was this grandfather of yours ever the count of Carrick, and does your uncle actually have a claim in his character profile (considering his age, I don't think he would if he was born after your grandfather died, which is a possibility here...)?

 

[tuareg109]

Ok tuareg109 -- confirming you can nominate homosexuals...in this case it is my son. I then loaded the prior heir and I could not elect any grand kids (including the aforementioned) and the list is much shorter, I notice. I want to say it has something to do with agnatic-cognatic succession underpinnings but haven't confirmed this.

Okay! Thanks for all your help.

In the case of your uncle, the common ancestor would be your grandfather/his father. Was this grandfather of yours ever the count of Carrick, and does your uncle actually have a claim in his character profile (considering his age, I don't think he would if he was born after your grandfather died, which is a possibility here...)?

The grandfather was never Count of Carrick, but he WAS Earl of Isle of Man; perhaps if I made that my primary title....
The uncle was born before the grandfather's death; in fact, he was 13 when the grandfather died. I'll have to check if he has a claim though, but I seem to remember he has a positive opinion of my Count, so I think not.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

The biggest problem with Feudal Elective is that England doesn't have it.

 

[Alyiakal]

The grandfather was never Count of Carrick, but he WAS Earl of Isle of Man; perhaps if I made that my primary title....
The uncle was born before the grandfather's death; in fact, he was 13 when the grandfather died. I'll have to check if he has a claim though, but I seem to remember he has a positive opinion of my Count, so I think not.

Yeah, your uncle would need a weak claim on your primary title to be eligible to be elected. I guess you inherited it through a consolidation of titles?

 

[tuareg109]

Yeah, your uncle would need a weak claim on your primary title to be eligible to be elected. I guess you inherited it through a consolidation of titles?

Actually I started as Earl of Isle of Man, whose son is Count of Galloway; that SON's son is the Count of Carrick.
So the uncle might have gotten a claim on the Isle of Man (in which case, changing that to my primary title should work). This doesn't explain, though, how the half-brother was eligible for election to Count of Carrick, as that half-brother's father had only ever held the County of Isle of Man and the County of Galloway. He doesn't and shouldn't have a claim on Carrick.
One other idea: the uncle has the Content trait. Does that affect electivity at all?

 

[unmerged(512626)]

Actually I started as Earl of Isle of Man, whose son is Count of Galloway; that SON's son is the Count of Carrick.
So the uncle might have gotten a claim on the Isle of Man (in which case, changing that to my primary title should work). This doesn't explain, though, how the half-brother was eligible for election to Count of Carrick, as that half-brother's father had only ever held the County of Isle of Man and the County of Galloway. He doesn't and shouldn't have a claim on Carrick.
One other idea: the uncle has the Content trait. Does that affect electivity at all?

Tuareg, what was the succession law prior? Could it be he was 2nd or 3rd in line of succession at some point before his dad passed on, thus giving him a claim? I'm assuming the son and grandson, of the two countries respectively, were given titles by the Earl? And if not, either way, the half-brother is/was still brother/half-brother to the Count of Carrick right? I think this would give him a claim or make him eligible for succession until there are enough heirs (e.g. enough males/heirs etc. born of the Count of Carrick) If he has a claim (I missed if you said) then it won't matter how many heirs there are. If I muffed that up I'm sure someone will correct me, but that is my impression.

As for Content -- it's not a terrible trait (other than not helpful for a leader much). There appears to be no neg. malus for it in and of itself. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?592932-djCynic-s-Guide-to-Achieving-Realm-Stability

 

[Akikonomu]

Eligible nominees for heirs in elective succession are basically:
1. Your immediate family - your brothers and sisters as well as your immediate sons and daughters.
2. Any landed kinsmen, including 'foreign rulers'.
3. Any other direct vassals.

To nominate your uncle, grant him a county or barony.

 

[tuareg109]

Tuareg, what was the succession law prior? Could it be he was 2nd or 3rd in line of succession at some point before his dad passed on, thus giving him a claim? I'm assuming the son and grandson, of the two countries respectively, were given titles by the Earl? And if not, either way, the half-brother is/was still brother/half-brother to the Count of Carrick right? I think this would give him a claim or make him eligible for succession until there are enough heirs (e.g. enough males/heirs etc. born of the Count of Carrick) If he has a claim (I missed if you said) then it won't matter how many heirs there are. If I muffed that up I'm sure someone will correct me, but that is my impression.

The prior law was Gavelkind. I remember well because I had to change it three times; once as Earl of Man, once as Count of Galloway, and again as Count of Carrick.
The uncle could never have been second or third because the Earl's grandson (Count of Carrick) was second in line, and HIS son (an ugly guy who actually has amazing stats for this early in the game but one dwarf son and one hunchback son) was third.
So, no claim.
In any case, I've created the Duchies of Galloway, and now Ulster, so I'm off that path.
I think I'll go with Akikonomu's suggestion in the future (when my demesne gets too big).

Eligible nominees for heirs in elective succession are basically:
1. Your immediate family - your brothers and sisters as well as your immediate sons and daughters.
2. Any landed kinsmen, including 'foreign rulers'.
3. Any other direct vassals.

To nominate your uncle, grant him a county or barony.

Alright, the man (son of the old uncle) is getting a county as soon as my demesne gets too big.
His stats and those of his wife just beg for great kids (especially if I tutor them).