Elective reverting to Gavelkind

[unmerged(617710)]

Hey guys. Picked this up on Steam sale a few days ago and am loving it so far.

One quick question I've been searching for answers high and low and getting a mixed response. I have been using Elective Succession but it keeps reverting back to Gavelkind when I upgrade my title (When I go from Count to Duke or Duke to King). Is this WAD or a bug? I have not read that elective does this anywhere in any tutorials or anything but it keeps happening. Any help is appreciated. I have a 72 year old leader right now and want to form a kingdom but don't want everything split up when he kicks it because I doubt he will last another 10 years.

 

[TheSupernatural]

You can still create the title without losing land. The King title will become your primary title, and be higher than all duke titles or lower. You'll just end up with more vassals

I'm not sure if that's a bug or not, though.

 

[unmerged(617710)]

Thanks for responding super. That info will help me work around it so thank you.

Found posts of this dating all the way back to January. Some saying it was always like this others saying it started after a patch. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[FromasterG]

I think gavelkind is the standard inheritance law for all titles, so if you are creating duchies and this kingdom out of nothing, then the inheritance laws default to gavelkind. Since the new title outranks your old one, its inheritance laws take precedence. If you were to create a same-tier title when you already have one (ie making a kingdom when you are already a king) the new title will match your current inheritance laws. You probably won't be able to change the law before your character dies, but since you will still be king after he dies, you can revoke the titles you lost since you will have claims on the lost titles and your siblings should still be your vassals

 

[shypixel]

This is how I understand it, though I mainly play ck2+, so it might be different:

When you usurp an existing title from someone, it retains whatever laws they had.

When you create a title, it will be created with whatever laws your primary title now has.

I try to never make my duke titles elective, as when i move on to a king title, this leads to massive super-dukes forming.

So what to do when you want to be king, but the CA is minimal? I destroy the title and reform it, i think the -50 malus for one ruler is worth the multiple generation raised CA malus that would be needed to move from min to max...

 

[TheSupernatural]

This is how I understand it, though I mainly play ck2+, so it might be different:

When you usurp an existing title from someone, it retains whatever laws they had.

When you create a title, it will be created with whatever laws your primary title now has.

I try to never make my duke titles elective, as when i move on to a king title, this leads to massive super-dukes forming.

So what to do when you want to be king, but the CA is minimal? I destroy the title and reform it, i think the -50 malus for one ruler is worth the multiple generation raised CA malus that would be needed to move from min to max...

I don't think the usurp part is right. I've usurped duchy titles and county titles without my laws changing at all. I'm not sure if you can usurp king titles or higher.

It sounds like a bug. As far as I know your laws shouldn't change on their own.

 

[ryousei]

I don't think the usurp part is right. I've usurped duchy titles and county titles without my laws changing at all. I'm not sure if you can usurp king titles or higher.

It sounds like a bug. As far as I know your laws shouldn't change on their own.

bug with new version.

 

[Snaggleooo]

I've noticed this too. I thought it might have just been a Dawn of Kingdoms problem. I've noticed that when creating a Kingdom when you're Elective (at Duke level), it reverts to Gavelkind. However, if your Duchy is Primogeniture, your Kingdom goes Primo too.

 

[Djieh]

I think gavelkind is the standard inheritance law for all titles, so if you are creating duchies and this kingdom out of nothing, then the inheritance laws default to gavelkind. Since the new title outranks your old one, its inheritance laws take precedence. If you were to create a same-tier title when you already have one (ie making a kingdom when you are already a king) the new title will match your current inheritance laws. You probably won't be able to change the law before your character dies, but since you will still be king after he dies, you can revoke the titles you lost since you will have claims on the lost titles and your siblings should still be your vassals

This is what I would have said as well. Creating titles at the same (or a lower) level as your primary title will result in the same inheritance law, "upgrading" to a higher level will change it to gravelkind. I consider it WAD since proclaiming yourself king would probably result in a lot of changes all-around.

Usurping or inheriting titles will retain the existing laws. Kind of annoying when you managed to murder your way to three crowns in Spain as you can't afford to die until you changed all the inheritance laws, but that's where the challenge lies.

 

[TheSupernatural]

This is what I would have said as well. Creating titles at the same (or a lower) level as your primary title will result in the same inheritance law, "upgrading" to a higher level will change it to gravelkind. I consider it WAD since proclaiming yourself king would probably result in a lot of changes all-around.

Usurping or inheriting titles will retain the existing laws. Kind of annoying when you managed to murder your way to three crowns in Spain as you can't afford to die until you changed all the inheritance laws, but that's where the challenge lies.

I have to disagree. I've created King titles when I was a duke, and my laws have not changed.

 

[Talq]

From what I've seen its a particular issue with getting a higher title & elective. The other three types of succession will carry over, but not elective (which will revert to gavelkind), the issue presumably being the different pool of electors.

 

[unmerged(617710)]

lol....so it seems like it is the same from the first thread I read that some think it's a bug and others think it's WAD. I'm new to Paradox and their forums. Do the devs interact much? If so would be nice to get a word from them on this.

 

[Mutineer]

It is clearly not a bug, it is logical functionality. Some may not like it, but that how it is work. Higher tie titles start in gavekin.

 

[Talq]

lol....so it seems like it is the same from the first thread I read that some think it's a bug and others think it's WAD. I'm new to Paradox and their forums. Do the devs interact much? If so would be nice to get a word from them on this.

They (Paradox) are more interactive than most devs I've seen as a rule (check out the EUIV forum for example). However, for this game in particular they seem to only interact in dev diaries or for a week or so after game release. Expect most questions to remain unanswered (especially now, as they are nearly on Christmas holidays).

Threads with paradox staff posts have the platypus icon on them (eg on the Dev diary thread).

 

[Arnulfing]

It is clearly not a bug, it is logical functionality. Some may not like it, but that how it is work. Higher tie titles start in gavekin.

This is not correct, unfortunately. Higher tier titles do not automatically start in gavelkind. What is currently the case from my experience is that upon creation of a new king title, primogeniture and seniority carry over, but elective does not (the law reverts to gavelkind). That might be WAD, might be a bug.

Case in point: a week ago, I formed the kingdom of Bohemia while my law (as duke of Bohemia and Moravia) was Seniority. The kingdom law was Seniority as well. I know this for a fact because even before creating the king title I wanted to become an elective kingdom, so I kept an eye on the law both before and after creation of the king title. It carried over.

Yesterday, I formed the kingdom of Bohemia again (new game) while my law (as duke of Bohemia and Moravia) was Elective. I changed it before creating the king title, hoping it would carry over as well. After creation, the kingdom law suddenly became gavelkind... Much to my surprise and annoyance, as you might imagine. The duke of Bohemia in 1066, Vratislav (II) usually has many kids over the course of his life. Yesterday, he had five (adult) sons and four daughters.

In my (humble) opinion, the logical thing would be if upon creation of a new title, it either always reverts to gavelkind, or it always carries over the law from the previous level. The last option seems like the most logical to me. Now primogeniture (per a previous poster) and seniority do carry over, but elective does not. It doesn't say this anywhere on tooltips, however - you basically have to find this out for yourself during the game. Which can be a bit frustrating if you find this out with a newly-created 70-year old king. :/

I was in the same situation yesterday. Old Vratislav Premysl was about 65 years old when he became king, and probably (from previous experiences) wouldn't have lasted another decade. As luck (or lack thereof) would have it, he croaked less than a year before the law could be changed (rule as king: nine years and three months), but thankfully the realm and his demesne were left intact to his eldest son because I'd shipped the rest off to the monastery in the meantime. *cackle*

If I'd known before that it'd revert to gavelkind, however, I would have waited until after creation of the king title to try and switch to elective. At least I would have kept seniority that way.

 

[Mutineer]

you correct, I believe, primo and seniority does keep.

 

[unmerged(617710)]

Yes both do carry over. Tested it. It seems only to be an issue with elective. If it is WAD it would be nice there was something that said this about elective in the tooltip for newbies like me. If it is a bug it seems like kind of a big one. Only reason I seem to think it is a bug is because reading in past threads there seems to be some people believe that before a certain patch it wasn't always this way and this change wasn't in the patch notes. Who knows though.

 

[Iron Chariots]

Thanks for responding super. That info will help me work around it so thank you.

Found posts of this dating all the way back to January. Some saying it was always like this others saying it started after a patch. Any help would be appreciated.

Another tip for dealing with gavelkind is that you can disqualify your extra heirs by granting them bishoprics. That way you can keep your demense intact.

 

[NewbieOne]

This night the king took my ducal title following my unsuccessful rebellion and gave it to my previous de iure but not de facto vassal. I claimed it back (I was more developed, so I had more money for mercs) and it was again gavelkind and not primo where I'd set it.

 

[unmerged(617710)]

Thanks for everyone's help on this issue. Nice to see how active these forums are.