Elective Monarchy

[Oriental Despot]

I've instituted the elective monarchy but none of my electors are voting. Has anyone else noticed this, why is this happening, and are there any workarounds?

I have two Georgian (foreign culture) Dukes who vote for each other (they're members of the same house); but otherwise none of my electors will participate except my heir once I've nominated him.

So basically at any given time a Georgian will have two votes (from himself and his kinsman) and my heir will have two votes (from myself, and from himself once I've given him a Duchy.) The rest just abstain.

All of the electors are duchies I've created apart for the one I started with (which I still hold.) A large majority of electors are inactive, including two are of my dynasty, and three are from various noble houses of my same culture; not sure if those are factors in this, or...?

I was hoping elections would have been a bit more lively than this...

 

[stilgarpl]

I think only electors from "de jure" kingdom can vote, so if their duchies are abroad they can't vote. I have something simmilar in Bohemia - I have many duke-vassals, but I have duchies of Bohemia and Moravia and I am the only one who can vote.

 

[Oriental Despot]

I think only electors from "de jure" kingdom can vote, so if their duchies are abroad they can't vote. I have something simmilar in Bohemia - I have many duke-vassals, but I have duchies of Bohemia and Moravia and I am the only one who can vote.

Now that is a shame.. it's almost enough to make me restart my game. I really wanted to build an elective empire of my own. Not only does that make it easy to rig elective monarchy, it almost forces you to do so in the case of small Kingdoms such as the one I've been playing (Georgia.)

 

[jpr123]

Not sure why you want to be elective. Whenever I have 1 non-family member as a Duke everybody seems to vote for him, including my family members, and I can't seem to get them to change their minds. As soon as my character dies I get the game over screen. Elective seems worse than gavel-kind to me.

 

[Oriental Despot]

Not sure why you want to be elective. Whenever I have 1 non-family member as a Duke everybody seems to vote for him, including my family members, and I can't seem to get them to change their minds. As soon as my character dies I get the game over screen. Elective seems worse than gavel-kind to me.

Well, I started as Duchy of Alania then usurped the Georgian crown; so basically I'm building up a state from scratch and doling out the elector titles to whoever I like. My plan was to set everything up so that a member of my house would be elected almost no matter what; originally I was only going to give duchal titles to members of my dynasty, then I was disappointed to find they weren't voting and that the elective system was giving them a loyalty penalty anyways.

Last time I played Alania/Georgia I set the succession to Primogeniture which worked nicely until a King died which lead inevitably to civil war. I was hoping to avoid that with an elective monarchy.

In fact I haven't had a single vassal rebel with the elective system so I think I'll keep experimenting with it.

 

[Fargham]

The problem is that the election is only for the de Jure Kingdom, not for your entire realm. Why should outside dukes interfere with the crown of Georgia when they are dukes of the de Jure Kingdom of (somewhere else)? Each Kingdom has their own laws, and even though you are King of one, does NOT mean that they are dukes of that same Kingdom. They are your vassals, but not the vassals of the Kingdom of Georgia.

While the de Jure system does create very easy straight forward ways of making kingdoms, it also forces you into not being able to create dynamic ones.

 

[Oriental Despot]

The problem is that the election is only for the de Jure Kingdom, not for your entire realm. Why should outside dukes interfere with the crown of Georgia when they are dukes of the de Jure Kingdom of (somewhere else)?

Because they're de facto Dukes of Georgia? But alright, so in my case most of my dukes are in the de jure Kingdom of Khazaria. Let's say I snatch that title; would I then see my holdings split into two independent states by an election? (e.g., Dukes of Georgia elect one King, Dukes of Khazaria elect another?)

 

[unmerged(452060)]

Not sure why you want to be elective. Whenever I have 1 non-family member as a Duke everybody seems to vote for him, including my family members, and I can't seem to get them to change their minds. As soon as my character dies I get the game over screen. Elective seems worse than gavel-kind to me.

Well if you have more than 1 duke title, even if you lose the election, you just lose your primary duke titles. You still play as your heir you vote with another duke title, all of your count vassals AND a CB to get back the duke title you lose in election (Pretender CB for 1st and 2nd runner-up) while poor El Presidente just get a duke title on top of his/her petty little country.

 

[Wezqu]

If I'm not wrong Khazaria is not creatable for some reason. Its marked on the map but its creation requirements state never.

 

[Oriental Despot]

If I'm not wrong Khazaria is not creatable for some reason. Its marked on the map but its creation requirements state never.

That's too bad; but for the sake of example.. say, I create Kingdom of Armenia or something, could that be split off in an election?

 

[stilgarpl]

Because they're de facto Dukes of Georgia? But alright, so in my case most of my dukes are in the de jure Kingdom of Khazaria. Let's say I snatch that title; would I then see my holdings split into two independent states by an election? (e.g., Dukes of Georgia elect one King, Dukes of Khazaria elect another?)

Yes, under "Laws" menu you'll have two shields on top, one for each kingdom and you can set different laws for each kingdom ( for example, you can have Absolute Authority in one kingdom and Autonomous Vassals in the other )

 

[unmerged(383991)]

Because they're de facto Dukes of Georgia? But alright, so in my case most of my dukes are in the de jure Kingdom of Khazaria. Let's say I snatch that title; would I then see my holdings split into two independent states by an election? (e.g., Dukes of Georgia elect one King, Dukes of Khazaria elect another?)

You dont have to do all that to make a dutchy part of your kingdom but it will take time. In my game, I was king of lithuania and i conquered all of a de jure dutchy from rus. Eventually that dutchy became part of my kingdom after ruling it for 100 years. The kingdom of Rus was shrinking and my kingdom was growning de jure realms from it. Check on the map to look at de jure kingdoms and dutchies and it will give you a time table on how long before it merges but you have to own all of the de jure lands first

 

[Yenzen]

I do think that vassals in your non-de-jure territory should always get a vote in their liege's primary title as well as their de-jure one (esp is this title is singular and superior to their de-jure duchy/kingdom).

It makes no sense that all Spain would be a-OK with the king of "Navarra" not creating Hispania ruling it all and calling the kingdom elective, if there are no other electors because they're not "de-jure"

 

[Flamestalker]

I do think that vassals in your non-de-jure territory should always get a vote in their liege's primary title as well as their de-jure one (esp is this title is singular and superior to their de-jure duchy/kingdom).

It makes no sense that all Spain would be a-OK with the king of "Navarra" not creating Hispania ruling it all and calling the kingdom elective, if there are no other electors because they're not "de-jure"

don't you get the "to many elector titles held" penalty with all your vassals if you do something like that? Or do only de-jure vassals get that?

 

[Yenzen]

That can be circumvented by simply only holding the kingdom title in a small realm, or restricting yourself to one ducal title in a bit larger one. The downsides don't make up for being able to elect any far off third cousin twice removed genius midas touched / grey eminence with a claim on two empires.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

My favorite succession types are Elective and Seniority, though it usually depends who I'm playing as to which I'll choose. For example, I like playing Seniority as Denmark so I go thru all of Svend II's sons as kings before it becomes the turn of any of his grandchildren. Elective is great in the Empire (though I often see it become Primogeniture -- even for the AI, which is odd, and should be really, really difficult to achieve) and Anglo-Saxon England, but as has been mentioned there is an issue with it being easily exploitable if you have only one or two people who can vote.

There probably ought to be a stricter requirement for Elective monarchy (a certain number of potential vassals/voters), and I dislike the fact that Seniority will unite lands from other kingdoms. To me, it sort of ruins the whole experience. For example, in my current game as Poland (first time I've ever played as them) I tutored a couple of Premyslid boys in my court and raised them as Poles. I then married them off to Polish courtiers (one was a younger daughter of mine) and they started their own Polish cadet branch of the Premyslid family, which I thought was pretty interesting. They were nowhere near the line of succession back in Bohemia because they had older brothers and cousins with loads of kids, so I gave them each one of the two provinces in Samogitia. They eventually turned those provinces Polish / Catholic and were generally really good vassals, until...

...all of a sudden I notice that my nice new Samogitian vassals are part of Bohemia, with the elder brother as king. Apparently Bohemia went Seniority succession at some point, and for some reason all the heirs by Primogeniture were passed over. I'd never considered this. He then formed the duchy and gave it to his younger brother, and it began a de jure transition into Bohemia.

I realize if I'd had High centralization then this may not have happened because lands can't pass from outside your realm (does that work in 1.07?) but I still think it's really annoying. Putting that situation into an historical context, surely the new king of Bohemia would just have handed those lands to a younger brother as one of my vassals. Why would they have become part of Bohemia, a territory with no border to Samogitia? I gave them that land to rule anyway.

Oh well, I just think it's really annoying. I get why it happens, but I think inheriting lands by Seniority should only happen within the same de jure realms. I once saw a game in which an AI king of England with Seniority managed to inherit a three province duchy of Slesvig, which naturally became his vassal. Now, how the hell would that have happened in real life? Clearly the duke would have remained as a vassal of the king of Denmark, even if he was of the king of England's dynasty. That was always what happened in situations like that. It's different with lands which border two different realms.

 

[JonStryker]

I have stated that already elsewhere but elective is awesome. Especially with a kingdom that's built from scratch / cleansed of non family members. Family members will always vote for the kinsman you choose. Game over is veeeeery much impossible with such a setup.

I usually de-jure drifted tons of duchies into my kingdom to increase the number of voters for my title. It's really nice to have 30 people voting for the guy I chose. And then, when I change my mind shift over to my new candidate of choice. With 1.07 doing that is not that optimal any more, though.

It really doesn't matter how much they like you. As long as your candidate is awesome and a kinsman they WILL vote for him. Only once in the 100+ ruler changes I have seen my candidate wasn't elected. Instead another kinsman with 24 diplo got chosen instead. He was one of the best rulers I ever had

Bottom line: Don't shy away from building a huge sprawling elective kingdom / empire.

 

[MasterOfGrey]

The other awesome part about elective monarchy is that if you have many diverse lands and want to throw a spanner in the works you can use it to "elect" a duke-level republic to an independent kingdom.

 

[Jadelith]

Elective + all dukes are bishoprics = win. %100 stable realm with 0 succession problems

 

[unmerged(471935)]

A question on elective.If my primary tittle is elective all my other tittles will be elective as well...all my counties will go to the elected person??Bc i ve seen several times that the when a new HRE emperor is elected each time he has a new set of holdings irrelevant to the previous emperor