Elective monarchy - there's no need for anti-pope cuz I am God.
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IIRC Archbishops/Prince Bishops and Lord mayors/Doges don't care about Crown Authority so you should be able to bump up to medium with no adverse affects. This will allow you to dump those infidel and heretic vassals when need be.
It's not an issue in terms of the game.
In terms of governing, you can say lots about all the ruling types.
"Castles and kings! Awesome! But everyone's mad, and nobody listens!"
"Theocracy....the best form of government! Everyone loves each other, and God. But let's hope no hateful people show up."
"Cities! We're always in the money!...but we hate kings for no validly explained reason!"
In terms of governing, you can say lots about all the ruling types.
"Castles and kings! Awesome! But everyone's mad, and nobody listens!"
"Theocracy....the best form of government! Everyone loves each other, and God. But let's hope no hateful people show up."
"Cities! We're always in the money!...but we hate kings for no validly explained reason!"
Excuse me? It was my mommy not daddy. Also, not all teenagers are stupid and want to play CoD or BF3 (me being one of them). I would rather play a strategy game any day of the week then one of those FPS games.
If you were to dig through the files, in the exact same ways that Paradox expects you to, you would see that the traits are not random at all. I happen to think it's a whole lot more meaningful for a general to sit around doing absolutely nothing in a city and get a lazy/drunk trait in Medieval, than for Ck2 to ask you if you would rather be active or lazy, and expect you to make the wrong choice for no other reason than to slice off your own nose, so you can't smell the beauties the game might hold with much more refinement. That is just pitiful in my opinion.
I'm not sure I like "gamey" as a description. Paradox games have always been about writing your own version of history; in my opinion, turning the feudal system on its side is an inventive way of doing this, and it's fully supported by the game's mechanics.
As Valinn pointed out, this method has a lot of downsides as well. Above and beyond what he pointed out; Crusades are an absolute disaster for your realm since Bishops like the crusader trait, and if you join in and actively fight in the crusade, your bishops will pick up the crusader trait too. Since the Pope also joins the fight, all your bishops will have a giant +40 to relations with the pope, which can be absolutely ruinous in that they will no longer provide you with levies or taxes if they like the pope more than you (or if you and the pope are BOTH at 100 relations, which is the real killer).
A lousy county seat and troop types were already covered, but since churches provide less troops overall when fully upgraded, this also hurts your maximum levy cap. Granted, the bishops pay taxes by default without complaining (unlike feudal lords, which is one of the strengths of mixing in Prince-Bishops).
If you're running this strategy, you're almost certainly also in Free Investiture, which basically means you won't be able to request invasions unless your target is absolutely despised the pope; the -30 in opinion is pretty hard to overcome. I also frequently find myself hoping for the right trait set to stay out of the negatives and not get excommunicated. Anti-popes and the associated heresy aren't really an effective solution, because heretic Prince-Bishops can spiral out of control even more quickly than your standard feudal lord.
I've tried the full on P-AB strategy once, but it really is boring in addition to everything else, and it does nothing to help your dynasty score. I am not a fan of doges, so I still do use P-ABs, but not exclusively. They provide a nice growing pile of income, which, while modest, really helps you pay for a large realm's retinues. A mix of these guys with your standard feudal vassals makes for a good balance (making sure the bishops report directly to you and therefore pay you). When the Republic roles around, I'll have to consider working in doges, as their benefits in increasing wealth across provinces they don't own might finally be enough for me to stomach their constant whining.
As Valinn pointed out, this method has a lot of downsides as well. Above and beyond what he pointed out; Crusades are an absolute disaster for your realm since Bishops like the crusader trait, and if you join in and actively fight in the crusade, your bishops will pick up the crusader trait too. Since the Pope also joins the fight, all your bishops will have a giant +40 to relations with the pope, which can be absolutely ruinous in that they will no longer provide you with levies or taxes if they like the pope more than you (or if you and the pope are BOTH at 100 relations, which is the real killer).
A lousy county seat and troop types were already covered, but since churches provide less troops overall when fully upgraded, this also hurts your maximum levy cap. Granted, the bishops pay taxes by default without complaining (unlike feudal lords, which is one of the strengths of mixing in Prince-Bishops).
If you're running this strategy, you're almost certainly also in Free Investiture, which basically means you won't be able to request invasions unless your target is absolutely despised the pope; the -30 in opinion is pretty hard to overcome. I also frequently find myself hoping for the right trait set to stay out of the negatives and not get excommunicated. Anti-popes and the associated heresy aren't really an effective solution, because heretic Prince-Bishops can spiral out of control even more quickly than your standard feudal lord.
I've tried the full on P-AB strategy once, but it really is boring in addition to everything else, and it does nothing to help your dynasty score. I am not a fan of doges, so I still do use P-ABs, but not exclusively. They provide a nice growing pile of income, which, while modest, really helps you pay for a large realm's retinues. A mix of these guys with your standard feudal vassals makes for a good balance (making sure the bishops report directly to you and therefore pay you). When the Republic roles around, I'll have to consider working in doges, as their benefits in increasing wealth across provinces they don't own might finally be enough for me to stomach their constant whining.
Actually, the only way that would work is if your ruler has good traits and Pope has bad ones. While feudal vassals work fine as well with good(though other) traits.
And as you can't have any relatives hold any higher than count title — you can't elect someone other than your children. And as soon as every your child is a sinner, or at least an average guy while Pope is paragon of virtue — you are doomed. AI will sense your weakness and crush you.
And as you can't have any relatives hold any higher than count title — you can't elect someone other than your children. And as soon as every your child is a sinner, or at least an average guy while Pope is paragon of virtue — you are doomed. AI will sense your weakness and crush you.
I resent this. Paradox and CA can eat my brown lillies for this kind of garbage.
Also, when a general sits in a town without church, he has a chance to get this and that trait. If there's an inn, he has a chance to get this and that trait. That IS random, in the sense that there is a small chance based on unreasonable factors. If you were to dig through the files to find out all the chances, you'd find that the player COULD micromanage stupid details like moving the general in and out of a town each turn to avoid getting silly modifiers from unreasonable factors. But hey, CA can shove this where the eastern sun doth not shine. What kind of gameplay is that? I tell you: stupid gameplay.
Well, truthj ot be told, the Church holdings were one big reason why HRE, and arguably Russia&Bysantium managed to have so much territory.
Then, IRL bishops were more active than in game, while they themselves can not marry officially, nothing is preventing them from helping their family members and such.
Then, IRL bishops were more active than in game, while they themselves can not marry officially, nothing is preventing them from helping their family members and such.
"Against his better judgement, Lessing decided to commission a painting. COMET SIGHTED!"
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I hope the inevitable theocracy patch/DLC lets bishops have legitimised bastards etc. and that ambitious/greedy/etc. theocratic vassals will seek to make their realms hereditary.
A strategy where clergymen rule the duchies as Prince-archbishops, as explained by the OP.
Why shouldnt it help your dynasty score when the P-ABs are always of your dynasty?
It does help your dynasty score if you do it that way. But you need to hand-pick all of the successors to be members of your dynasty, which can be a tad annoying.
To have them all be of your dynasty (but not powerful superdukes), you need A LOT of people of your dynasty, in a decent sized kingdom.
For that you need the lustful trait.
You get penalties with all clergy when you have the lustful trait, so your taxes are less and there's a higher chance you don't get any taxes from certain people, if they're more loyal to the Pope. Also, wouldn't you have an opinion malus with all title claimants (most people of your dynasty)?
This is why you want an Anti-Pope. Even if you're not liked by your bishops, they may like him.
Be a basque character - pass cognatic succession laws. Revoke *all* noble titles in your realm. Then, hand them *all* out to elderly women with no children or spouse. Hire debutantes regularly, invite elderly women from foreign courts to your realm, also. Whenever a vassal dies, you will inherit their titles, hand them over to a new spinster. Repeat ad infinitum. Enjoy your stable realm ruled by doddering old women... And cats.
As was said by Kimberly and tuareg109, it would essentially be a micromanagement nightmare. Bishoprics are where you dump characters that you don't want reproducing, but in order to have all these dynasty members, you need them reproducing. They also can't hold any lands, otherwise they won't become a bishop, so they have to get married and have kids in someone else's court before you pack them off to a church.
If you're going to bother doing all that, you might as well just make your dynasty members minor dukes in charge of the 2-3 county duchies, while handing the bigger ones off to random P-ABs for stability purposes. The only threat from dynasty members is if they are children or grandchildren to one of your primary title holders; beyond that the claim does not perpetuate, so all you really have to do is pay attention every few years to make sure that two separate duchies aren't going to be inherited by the same person.
