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Orinsul

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I said I would post up my idea of the Cyrodil Duchies I have always been frustrated with the area on the east side of the Niben River, and the Nibenay Basin. In Oblivion there was only a couple of settlements, and the area just seemed completely abandoned. If I was in charge of the developing team I would have added a city over there somewhere, but then again maybe the wilderness is what they attended. I would make these areas in a CK II mod fairly undeveloped and poor in comparison to the other duchies, or maybe invent some towns that would be located on the various rivers. Of course this is a rough sketch that would need significant alteration.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii285/JAck-Da-RipperT/CyrodilDuchies.jpg

I would say ignore Oblivion populations and cities wherever possible, as theyre not reasonable, the devs didnt care about the setting its just a backdrop. It doesnt have enough settlements for a duchy let alone a kingdom, let alone the central province of the empire. Theres definetly alot of room for new cities and etc to be added to fill the void. We should make it compatible with the lore, not the game as the game is an abstraction, not what it is but how it is reflected on a simple model in the game. In the lore Cyrodil is highly populated and rich.
Your map looks great!

Should the Cyrodil not have more duchies than the other provinces? beignt he central, cosmopolitan capital? It would be easy to do, splitting Blackmarsh either side of the bay or road, putting a new one in between the two arms in the basin, taking from upper, lower and valley. etc. Or maybe the important Duchies could just have higher province density than your average duchy.
 

JackTheRipper21

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There are some mods I would like to consider using as a base for Cyrodil, off of Vanilla Oblivion as they add alot of good locations and things too the game, such as surrounding Chorrol with farms, and few houses, a watermill, and a low lying wall protected by watchtowers manned by Chorrol County Militia, or Skingrad which had iron mines, Bruma that had lumberjacks etc. Plus other neat mods that added in villages and towns and really fleshed out the map. I would say we could use stuff like that as an abstraction and scale it up. a small village would become a town, an abandoned church or shrine a monastery, abandoned Imperial Legion forts castles.

Also I liked your suggestion of separating Blackwood along the road line so I modified it to create the Lower Niben Duchy, which would include Leyyawin. Otherwise I think everywhere else fits fairly well and we can just make the Cyrodil Duchies really wealthy like Italy, or the Holy land with plenty of delicious baronies. With the Imperial City itself being Equivalent to say Constantinople.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii285/JAck-Da-RipperT/CyrodilDuchies-1.jpg (A couple of small changes, made a new Duchy and changed the borders and name of the Colovian Highlands)
 

Maukka

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I think the map was showing hypothetical Duchies not Counties, so they would still be separate I think.

But are there dukes in Cyrodil or are the counts directly responsible to the council of elders and thus to the emperor?

*edit* Come to think of it it would make sense if the Council of Elders was made up of dukes of the land, tho I've never heard any specific information about other members than Ocato.
 
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xGhost4000x

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But are there dukes in Cyrodil or are the counts directly responsible to the council of elders and thus to the emperor?

*edit* Come to think of it it would make sense if the Council of Elders was made up of dukes of the land, tho I've never heard any specific information about other members than Ocato.

It could be as simple as counts being cyrodils equivalent to dukes...kinda like the different uses of earl in medieval time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl
 

Tyddyner

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Hi guys! I have independent planned Tamriel mod since CK2Demo have been released. So now I have finished work with cultures.txt and finish rivers.bmp on maps, Now I'm painting terrain map (Summerset Isles and the half of Hammerfell have been finished).
Some more about my progress:
In cultures file I have created Ten cultures groups (nine you know like the playable races of tamriel and the new one is tsaesci). Names for Races me brought from UESP.net
Cultures:
Nord_group
- skyrimian - the title nation of the north province, high and strong barbarians, who go to Sowngard after death and adore to Nine. They love Talos, ex-hero of nords, stronger than other Gods.
- skaal - the aborigin nord population of the Soulstheim Isle. In different of skyrimians, them believe in their own cults of the ancestores.
Breton_group
- Ilician - the bretons, who live near the Ilician bay and in the west part of High Rock. You now them from the games of TES Series.
- Reachmen - the nation of bretons, who live in the Reach - rocky, non-friendly part of Tamriel, which is divide by Skyrim and High Rock (so east part, located in skyrim, called West Reach and the west part called East Reach. Good, good). Some Reachmen Males have names, which a ended to "-ach" (like Madanach).
Cyrodilic_group
- Colovian - traders, spyes and diplomats, born at the Colovian West.
- Nibenayan - or "true" imperial. They are officials of the Empire and soldiers, the bones of the Imperial Legions.
Dunmer_group
- Dunmer - just Dunmers. Dres, Indoril, MushroomTelvanni, Hlaalu and Redoran Houses, Bruma and other enclaves from the Morrowind-borned elves.
- Ashlander - Dunmers, who live like tribes in the inner part of Vvanderfell Isle, like their fathers, by the old laws of Velothi.
Another Races (culture groups) have only one culture.

About Titles:
I think divide Tamriel to some kingdoms and Empires. The title of Tamriel Empire will be landless, but Honorary. But now my thoughts of Tamriel title don't have ended form.
 

Geredis

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Tyddyner - as far as I can tell; I think the better demonym for the Nords in Skyrim would be simply that; Nord... Skaals I think would be better noted as Nordic Skaal. THe Illiac Bay is just a region; and in and of itself is adjectival, thus you'd have an Illiac Breton; nor Illiacian or whatever; and most would simply be Breton. Nibenayan are simply Niben (the people being named by the river; Nibenay being the region itself). The rest sound good to me I'd say. Regarding the Dunmer; I like it - however, if you're suggesting that culturally speaking you divide each of the Great Houses into its own cultural sub-group of the Dunmer; I say no. Instead, it may be more effective if we made each Great House a proper dynasty (or set of dynasties instead).

As far as Dunmer in Cheydinhal (not Bruma) go, they are a relatively new occurance, and in fact, there'd be an Imperial on the throne unless we did something post-Nerevarine; since it's clear that ANdel Indarys came sometime between Dagoth Ur's defeat and the start of the Oblivion Crisis, given land and title by the Cyrodiils on account of an incompetent ruler in Cheydinhal prior to his coming, the man's Hlaalu (that is, pro-Imperial, given that King Hlaalu Helseth's mother, Barenziah was the lover of both Tiber Septim and one of his generals, and is thoroughly Imperial in nature) allegiance.

Arvalons: I love the idea of adding the forts in as baronies integral to their respective counties/duchies. I suggest this mostly because, honestly, I don't see magistrate-generals running these territories as being terribly practical.

Speaking of the legion; due to the decentralised nature of the Empire; would the Imperial Legions be used like Religious Orders or Mercenaries perhaps?

Regarding the title of Emperor of Tamriel - definitely use it, and have it in there from the start; perhaps as an elective law with some sort of way to rig it (if possible) to ensure that the Septims stay in power for as long as possible.


======
If I may offer a (partially) revised list of cultures?

Imperial
Nibenay - The "Cultured Eastern" Imperials, and consisting of all lands south of the Jeral Mountains and the Right Bank of the Niben River, the Imperial Lake, and the Imperial City. Those that come from Nibenay, a vast and cosmopolitain area. These people are religious, mercantile, and skilled politicians on the whole whom much of Tamriel look to for cultural matters, as they have been the prime movers of the poltiical situation in Tamriel since teh formation of the Allesian Empire in the First Era for nearly 4,000 years (assuming a late 3rd Era or very early 4th Era scenario).

Colovian - "Western" Imperials, descended from the original Nordic populations who retain their martial traditions. Though the people can be spartan in nature, there are enclaves of culture, including the empire-renowned vinyards of Skingrad and the West Weald. Due to their martial heritage, Colovians have always made excellent generals, forming the bulk of Imperials in the Empire's legions. The Gold Coast, and Anvil in particular, is Cyrodiil's main commercial hub aside from the Imperial City itself; however, due to the difficulty of navigating halfway around the continent of Tamriel, and the innate difficulties of riverine navigation for ocean-going and larger littoral cargo vessels, Anvil is the preferred port for Western and Northern Tamriel.

Highlander - Imperials who have interbred with the Nords beyond the Jeral Mountains and inhabit the highlands and lowlands of northern Cyrodiil, centred on Bravil and the surrounding regions.

Breton
Breton - The race of men with meric blood (given to them by both Aldmeri and Direnni interbreeding over the centuries) found in and around the Illiac Bay region with light skin and a long feudal tradition.

Reachman - Though they live in Skyrim, the Reachmen are actually Breton by blood and appearance. Putting them in the Breton group would also make the Hold of Markarath more interesting and volatile for a Nordic ruler in Markarth.

Nord
Skaal - The primitive, Nordic inhabitants of Solstheim who live in accordance to ancient Atmoran traditions. Inhabiting the northeastern quarter of Solstheim, the Skaal are a religious people that worship the land.

Nord - "Generic" Hold Nords that live both in Skyrim and abroad.

Cyro-Nords - The Nords that lived south of the Jeral Mountains prior to the establishment of the Provinces as known in the contemporary period.

Trans-Velothi Nords - The Nords that live/lived east of the Velothi Mountains prior to their expulsion by the Chimer/Dunmer prior to and after the Battle of Red Mountain. After the expulsion of the Nords, sizable enclaves remained in Redoran territory, particularly up north, along the coast of the Sea of Ghosts, and Blacklight

High Elves
Direnni (High Rock Altmer) - The rulers of the Isle of Balfiera, but also (from what I've gathered) an almost generic term for Altmer living in the Iliac Bay region.

Altmer - Tall, gold-skinned elves, highly cultured, livign in the Summerset Isle. They have a strong magical affinity, but that same affinity makes them succeptible to that very power they wield.

Dunmer
Dunmer - The dark-skinned meric race of Morrowind, cursed by the Tribunal's betrayal of Nerevar Moon-and-Star at Red Mountain. They are divided into five Great Houses and dozens of Houses Major and Minor that are aligned to these Great Houses on the mainland. The position of King of Morrowind is largely symbollic in nature and exists almost solely as a means to interact in a smooth way with the White Gold Tower.

Ashlander - The dark-skinned meric race of Vvardenfall, living in a tribal manner in accordance with old Velothi traditions, opposed to the colonisation of "their island" by the mainland.

Khajiit
Ohmes - Often mistaken by Bosmer (Wood Elves) from afar, the Ohmes often tatoo their faces to avoid this mistake. These were the most common species of Khajiit found abroad during the Imperial Simulacrum.

Ohmes-raht - Larger than the Ohmes, but of the same general appearance, the Ohmes-raht can be mistaken for a man at distance, until the fine coat of fur that covers their body can be discerned. Many of this race of Khajiit settled in the Illiac Bay Region and were the most common species foudn during the chaos that lead to the Warp in the West and its subsequent Miracle of Peace that finally ended the perpetual feudal conflicts in the Illiac Bay Region.

Suthay - Of the same appearance as the Suthay-Raht, listed below, but somewhat smaller in stature.

Suthay-raht - The most common race of Khajiit, and make up the vast majority of the Khajiit species that live outside of Elsweyr. Of similar heigh and build to a man, they come in a vast range of colours. Often called "Young Khajiit" ("Ja'Khajiit", also an appelation given to Mehrunes Dagon according to "Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi", an examination of Khajiit cosmogony)

Cathay - Bipedal Khajiiti race of greater stature and strengh compared to the Suthay-raht.

Cathay-raht -

Tojay - A race of Khajiit living in the Tenmar Forest and the marshes of southern Elsweyr.

Tojay-raht - Larger than the Tojay-raht.

Alfiq - A mute, very small, race of Khajiit, often mistaken for common housecats. Though unable to vocalise and unable to write, the Alfiq have a keen understanding of language. Their small size likely makes them skilled observers and spies. According to Codus Callonus in his "Mixed Unit Tactics", an examination of the Five Years War (3E 394-3E 399, during the Imperial Simulacrum), the Alfiq served as a reconaissance force and as battlemages for Elsweyr's armies.

Alfiq-raht - An extremely uncommon breed, Alfiq-Raht are larger than the Alfiq, and likely just as smart, though likewise mute.

Dagi - Uncommon breed, they inhabit the Tenmar Forest along the western border to Valenwood. They are natural magicians of a sort.

Dagi-raht - Larger than their Dagi coousins, the Dagi-raht are just as skilled in magic and just as nimble on the ground but unable to inhabit the higher branches of the Tenmar Forest.

Pahmer - Quadruped, tiger-like. Somewhat feral.

Pahmer-raht - Larger than the pahmer, of a more feral nature.

Senche - Steed-like warcats born under the Full moons of Masser and Secunda; as tall as an Altmer and heavy as twenty of them.

Senche-raht - Large and slow warcat used as steeds; sentient however, and while uncivilised can probably serve as excellent marshals or generals.

Mane - the ruler of the Khajiit, born under the alignment of the twin moons.

The -raht suffix implies that the race is much larger and somewhat more feral than their smaller kinsmen.
If I might, the king of Elsweyr should probably be an Elective post since the Mane is the ruler, and the Mane is not necessarily hereditary at all.

Argonians
As a general rule, curiously enough, it seems that Argonians are hermaphroditic, and change their gender depending on age...probably something that cannot be modded, but certain should be looked into.
Argonians - Generic bipedal pseudo-reptilians commonly found abroad outside of Argonia.

Saxhleel - The natives of Black Marsh, divided into five main tribes, the Agacephs (deep Argonia, within the Hist swamps), the Archeins ("traitorous" Argonians that sold their brethren into slavery, much larger and stronger than their brethren), Paatru (likely smaller, toad-like race in appearance), the Sarpa (a 'winged' species, very reclusive, living deep in the heart of Argonia), and teh Naga (a race of snake-like Argonians that tower over most Argonians, and other races, that are pariahs of sorts, even within Argonia, for their reputation as bandits and outlaws).
 

Federalist girl

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It could be as simple as counts being cyrodils equivalent to dukes...kinda like the different uses of earl in medieval time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl

Except there are imperial dukes: Vendam Dren, Duke of Mournhold, holds an imperial title and is the provincial representative of the emperor. I would just ignore Oblivion, because it made a hash of things lore-wise.
 

Geredis

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Federalist Girl: Not quite - Vedam Dren is Duke of Ebonheart; and is the Imperial Representative to Vvardenfell; not the whole of the province. And of course, from what I can gather, he is appointed by the Emperor, but still beholden (as kinsman, liege, and subject) to the King of Morrowind.
 

Tyddyner

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Instead, it may be more effective if we made each Great House a proper dynasty (or set of dynasties instead).
I have spoke about this too; may be, you can't understand mine much-mistakes post.
In your culture spoiler are too many Nords and Khajiits (Khajiits have just one culture - species of khajiits just is their biological specifications which is ruled by Moons Phase: it will by intresting to see, but, I think, Clauzewitz Engine can't do it).

And, I think about the half-blood kids and find intresting script in game: William the Bastard change his culture (and culture group!) from Norman (latin) to english (west_germanic) when he conquer England. I think, it can be used to do script which change race, when child of the dunmer-male (for exampe) and redguard-female (for exampe) will become 16 years old he get the "dun-gada" culture (for example) - black-skinned (to different of the grey father and brown mother) with elven years and african-like face.
 

Geredis

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Tyddyner - fair enough, I was just throwing them all out there in case someone wanted to use them all as either traits (certainly a decent idea I'd say; using the month when tied to the Khajiit culture to create the appropriate race trait(s).
 

Vulgaris

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Did I misread, or did you guys leave out Orsimer?
I support the idea that locations like forts (even ruins) and farms or villages should be raised at least to the level of baronies;
lore wise, the different cities in Tamriel are inhabited by thousands of 'people' each, while in game there are only a few dozen in each city.
Likewise, a simple village or inn that only has 5 inhabitants in game might represent an actual town of hundreds of individuals.

As Orcs have their own camps in Skyrim, these can be seen as towns in their own right. At least include these as baronies, while some other places, like lord Rugdumph's estate might even be created as a county in it's own right, ruled by an Orcish lord.
 

WildPeacock

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Ck2 is only about the upper nobility, do Orcs have a place in that?

For Khajit, surely an abstraction works best.

In Harsh Skyrim (Some Fortresses), Metropolitan Cyrodill (Some "Baronies") and Crazy High Rock (Their own little mountain kingdom) yes.

Also, why not use Arena Maps to make some "made-up" counts? Here is Skyrim
 
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