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Firehound15

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"Señor Presidente,

"My concern lies not in the legislation, although it should be said that I heartily disapprove of its passage, given its arbitrary restrictions upon a role which derives its authority from the Crown, rather than this body. Rather, it lies in the question of whether it is right to reject it outright, and the impact upon the powers of His Majesty, should this be the case.

"If the Honorable Count is to be believed, is it not the case that he is arguing for a reduction in regnal power? Certainly, as it stands, His Majesty has the authority to override any proposal of his choosing, and just the same, to pass. This is the normal order in this Spanish System, so I must ask the Count of Pontevedra whether he believes that His Majesty has the power to reduce his own power without being under duress, and if he holds this power, whether refusing to allow him to exercise his power would be an infringement upon the Crown's role in our current political system."
 

Riccardo93

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The Monarch, theoretically, can choose to reduce his own power; however, I do not believe that permits any body or person to suggest that he does so, nor do I believe that such utterances are at all legal. Therefore, I see no contradiction in my arguments and with royal supremacy. I do however see a vast gulf between this present motion and royal supremacy, as I have stated already several times.

~ Pontevedra

((It's also Marquis now, FH ;p ))
 

liefwarrior

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Senor Alvarez del Toro stood from his seat surrounded by fellow members of the Liga. He had watched with increasing trepidation as the Marquis of Pontevedra grew increasingly angered with the supposed traitor whom he had engaged in cross-floor debate. He knew that the Marquis was a dangerous man and that to anger him was to put not only one's life but also one's family in peril. Deciding that if he waited longer the situation would only deteriorate further he began to speak, his voice wavering slightly as some of the most powerful men in Spain turned to look at him.

"Perhaps the Marquis of Pontevedra is correct, it may be so that the good Senor & the People's Party are in fact traitors but this august body has not been gifted the right to make such a decision. Instead we must leave it to His Most Catholic Majesty and his courts to conclude whether these men's actions are in fact treacherous as such I would like to propose the following motion."

The Motion to Ensure the Proper Execution of His Most Catholic Majesty's Will in Regards to Those Whom Would Seek to Betray Him (TAtEtPEoHMCMWiRtTWWStBH)

RECOGNIZING the possibility of members of this assembly committing treasonous acts.
RECOGNIZING that His Most Catholic Majesty has many responsibilities of far more import then dealing with such people.
BELIEVING that it is in the best interest of His Most Catholic Majesty and the Kingdoms of Spain that such people be dealt with by the law.
RECOGNIZING the need for fair execution of the law in the interest of ensuring its rule.
BELIEVING that His Most Catholic Majesty is capable of concluding whom would be able to stand in his stead in such rulings.
BELIEVING that to attempt to limit the powers of His Most Catholic Majesty is to commit treason against Spain itself.

THIS ASSEMBLY WOULD ADVISE that the Secretariat of Loyalty (SoL) be formed. The Head of the SoL would be appointed by His Most Catholic Majesty to ensure that we loyal members of this most august body would have our loyalty ensured so that no false claim of treason could be made. The Head of the SoL would have the right to judge whether a member of this most august body was guilty of treason. The only person who might overturn his ruling would be His Most Catholic Majesty; to ensure that no treachery could be involved His Most Catholic Majesty would be required to declare his will in person.
Any person found guilty of treason by the SoL would serve a minimum of 15 years imprisonment, be stripped of all titles, be barred from serving in any of His Most Catholic Majesty's Governments body's and, at the discretion of His Most Catholic Majesty, may be banished from the Kingdoms of Spain or executed.

~ Senor Antonio Juan Alvarez del Toro y Suárez de Urbina, President of the Indies and Africa Council

((Private: Riccardo93))

Marquis of Pontevedra,

I have attached a copy of the motion I proposed recently. I find myself agreeing with you in many things, foremost that we should eradicate the scum that would see His Most Catholic Majesty removed from his throne. I believe that the traitors who have infiltrated the Asamblea Real will oppose my proposal and prevent it from being placed before His Most Catholic Majesty. Knowing you to be a fellow servant loyal to HMCM of far greater power & influence then myself I have decided to place this request before you, if my proposal were to fail would you be capable of ensuring that it was placed before HMCM regardless of the schemes of our enemies? That is all I ask of you and in return offer my assistance & support in any attempt to remove the People's Party and/or Movimiento from HMCM's advisory body unless it be tantamount to treachery.

~ A Humble Servant of His Most Catholic Majesty, Antonio Juan Alvarez del Toro y Suárez de Urbina
 

Korona

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Upon the announcement of Señor Alvarez del Toro's Motion, the Duke stands in anger.

"Señor Alvarez del Toro would see us return to the era of absolutism that plagued our great country before His Most Catholic Majesty granted us our current democratic status. This Secretariat of Loyalty would only serve as a mechanism for the absolutists and reactionaries to institute their agenda and to tear down the democratic institution that Spain has prospered under. I urge all those who support democracy to strike down this relic of a bygone era."
 

Michaelangelo

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I fully support this law, for as a loyal law-abiding citizen and a member of the most loyal party in support of His Majesty, we always do what we're told. Long live the King!

- Random Socialist
 

Duke Dan `the Man`

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Letter to Barnaby Whiterose [Scrapknight]

I sent this letter to offer cooperation of our companies in trade or the development of industry. I believe cooperation between us will only serve to strengthen our control of wealth in the Isles and further our wealth. Spanish Philipines is a great source of wealth, with its trading relationship with the rest of Asia, and securing more of this market for both of us will only increase our current riches.

I hope you will consider this message,
Simon Mercando
 

liefwarrior

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Señor Alvarez del Toro, not one used to being challenged, was rather caught out by the Duke of Seville's outraged reply. Having not been prepared to formulate a reply he sat as silence permeated the room. Blushing with embarrassment he shakily got to his feet and opened his mouth, before promptly closing it. For a couple of seconds he just stood there, thinking, before finally formulating a reply.

"Well, um.... you see the thing is.... that the, um, Duke of...." he turned to one of his neighbors and held a whispered conversation before looking up again, "Seville is wrong in calling absolutism a plague. That is, uhhh...." he coughed nervously, "all of the events that threatened our great nation where caused by those who seeked to end absolutism in Spain. Now I'm not saying that democracy is absolute rubbish," he turned to address his fellow members of the Liga and said rather loudly, 'it really is', "but the only 'democratic' part of our government is the election of the advisory bodies such as this assembly.
The Duke claims that the Secretariat of Loyalty would 'only serve as mechanism for absolutists and reactionaries to institute their agenda and to tear down the democratic institution'; I'm not sure if the Duke actually read my proposal but it quite clearly states that the Head of the Secretariat of Loyalty would be appointed by His Most Catholic Majesty. So any act of the Secretariat of Loyalty would be done in His name & at His discretion therefore following His will; are we not tasked with performing His Most Catholic Majesty's will? If the Duke is not, would he be so kind as to inform us now so that we might imprison him for treason without much fuss." this statement was met with laughter by several members of the Liga and with growing confidence Alverez del Toro spoke on.
"The Duke of Seville has made an impassioned cry to all the supporters of democracy, telling them to 'strike down this relic of a bygone age'. Well to this I say: all you traitors out there, those of you who care not for Spain & her people, I tell you to say 'nay!' to this motion but all of you loyal Spaniards, who believe in their King, who want to make Spain great again, this is your chance to show your loyalty to your King! A vote for T-M-tE-t-PEoHM-C-M-WiRt-T-W-W-S-t-B-H is a vote for Spain! It is a vote for the King! It is a vote for greatness!"

Having expended some energy in his impassioned speech Alvarez del Toro lowered himself into his seat, a grin spreading across his face.
 
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Riccardo93

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The matter of absolutism is not a matter the matter in dire need of being addressed at the moment, though I am certainly eager for just such a discussion to be had in a meaningful and fair way - we are, of course, a democracy, and dare I say it, if outright treason can be advised here - as it seems many opposed to myself believe it can and should - then surely a complete restoration of the monarch's power is within the purview of this body.

I will not comment on Senor Alvarez' motion for the nonce; it can be discussed in greater depth later. However, his latest statements are, by and large, true, and their intent is one I can find myself in agreement with. Should such a body be formed along the lines of that proposal, it would act in accordance with the sovereign's will, and would be bound in turn by the king's oversight.

However, believing that the discussion of the moment should be the treasonous motion advocated by de Valle and his cabal, I would suggest that this other bill fall by the wayside, if only for the moment, and only in regards to discussion. I am of course away that the opposition is most eager to transition the conversation away from themselves, as they of course have no leg to stand upon, but I am not particularly willing to grant them leave to do so.

I shall reiterate my previous statements; the motion brought forth by Senor de Valle, and endorsed by many within this body, is treasonous by way of its limitation of the King's ability to appoint and remove minister's at his discretion, and by making members of the king's government accountable to some other authority than the King - by way of unhelpful intrusion on the part of this body into the inner workings of the secretariats. Furthermore, necessary state documents and policies, presently disclosed or otherwise kept from the public eye for a multitude of reasons, could very well be made known; this too further makes this motion wrong-headed, though not in the same degree as its overt disloyalty does, as it merely makes the policies endorsed therein impractical and potentially dangerous - though no doubt a reasonable argument could be posited declaring that that is "against the ethos of the Kingdom" and therefore illegal as well. I shall, for the moment, make an extremely conciliatory concession and leave that off the table of my critiques for now, and instead focus upon the blatantly illegal aspects for the remaining discussion.

~ Pontevedra
 
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TJDS

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Private

A PP Member of the Royal Assembly whispers to De Valle: "He speaks of treason and this act as if HIS judgement is law; and takes offences from the most banal things, his mind is truly sickened with a grandeurcomplex.
 
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Firehound15

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PROPOSAL FROM THE INDUSTRIAL SECRETARIAT
9xWHBFt.png

Noting with great respect the current industrial situation within the Kingdom of Spain, it is the intention of this Secretariat to put forward an industrial agenda aimed at the long-term goal of improving Spanish industry to such a degree that it may someday rival the world's other leading nations.

Thus, the Industrial Secretariat shall put forward a three-part industrial agenda, on approval of His Majesty, the King of Spain:

1. The reorganization of Royal Industries into confederations, organized under the supervision of a centrally appointed foreman. Each confederation will elect its management with the approval of the foreman, on behalf of the Spanish Crown.

2. The Secretariat, on approval from His Majesty's Treasury, will release funds for the organization of a winery in Catalonia and a glass factory in León-Castilla.

3. The Secretariat requests a cooperative effort with the War Secretariat so as to ensure both a steady stream of jobs in the construction and materials industries, as well as a greater military and naval capacity.


Signed,

Cesc Romà
 

TJDS

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Señor Presidente,

The Marques operates under flawed logic, claiming the act to be illegal solely because he disagrees with it. However, the act is not illegal, nor is the discussion in favour for it, for a legal precedent has already been set on these matters.
Marques de Pontevedra has said it is illegal to limit the powers of HMCM, indeed, he says even the suggestion of limiting - in his eyes - infinite powers of HMCM is treason. Besides the fact that suggesting that HMCM is omnipotent is close to blasphemy, only a few minutes of thought of a simple man could see the flaws in this argument, for besides its reliancy on sophistry, it is quite empty.

If you would allow me, Señor Presidente, I wish to take you back to the Protection of Public Movement Act, which was signed by HMCM into law not so many years ago. This Act disallowed any harrasment of Public Movements by the Crown - noting that the Crown and the Monarch are indivisble - thereby limiting the Monarch's power, for he could not persecute movements simply for existing, thus, in accordance with the Marques' logic on the power of HMCM, HMCM was no longer all-powerful. Thus we now know that the power of HMCM may be limited through law, but could the Assembly suggest such things to HMCM? Yes, for, which you will most probably remember Señor Presidente, it was the Assembly who suggested this act and this limitation of power and it was the HMCM who enacted it. Therefore precedent has been set which allows the Assembly to suggest and support limitations to the power of the HMCM through law and allows the HMCM to sign such a bill into law all without in any way contradicting HMCM's Divine Right to Rule. Which allows for this act to be passed and implemented.

Don de Valle
 

Riccardo93

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Were I even to concede to your points, which I do not, the simple fact of the matter is that the King may, should he see so, agree with my assertion that this is an illegal matter; furthermore, regarding your points, they are thoroughly wrong-headed, as the act you present firstly was presented and discussed and voted upon in a legally dubious matter - the State Council as we all know did not vote in favour of it, and indeed supported its repeal, largely on the grounds presented. Furthermore, the act did not prevent His Majesty from appointing or removing men from his cabinet at his discretion, but rather merely shifted the means by which the nation voted for the members of this body; that, surely, is not a removal of the King's powers, though if you are implying that it is, perhaps that law should come under yet more scrutiny.

Furthermore, the statement that the King's authority is not absolute is an outright lie, and still more evidence of your treasonous thoughts and actions; you supported the overthrow of the King in 1873, and now in 1879 you are supporting the outright usurpation of his powers; indeed, if we are to go by your statements just now, you have been actively attempting to usurpt royal powers for a great deal longer.

From your argumentation, I can reach but a few conclusions; the first, that you mistakenly (and dare I say, intentionally) conflate the issues of the Public Movement Act with this present motion, which are designed, structured, and intended in wholly different fashions from one another, to paint a facade of legality upon this wholly unnacceptable motion. Or, and more nefariously, your previous motion was nothing more than an attempt to facilitate greater cessions of power from the King, by utilising a most roundabout method. In short, you have either lied before this body in comparing the two motions, or you have lied before this body, and the King, about the intent of your previous motion.

In short, I see nothing in this motion before me but the product of a liar, and a traitor. Granted, I'm certain all present were well aware of both of these characteristics of yours some time ago. That they run so deep to your core, however, is quite shameful.

~ Pontevedra
 

TJDS

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In those minutes he spoke, the Marques only produced hot air and no real arguments against the case I brought forward.
 

Alexiuskomenoi IV

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(Private: Alexiuskomenoi IV)

Senor Verdejo,

The recent motion set forth within the Audience has convinced me that my efforts thus far to ensure such laws concerning the wellbeing of our industrial workers are effective and implemented throughout the Kingdom have been lacking. Therefore, I would ask to appoint you as Head of the Department of Worker Safety, to ensure that the laws therefore passed are thoroughly followed.

~ Pontevedra

(Private: Riccardo93)
Senor Pontevedra,
I graciously accept the office you have invited me to hold, and will do my best to operate within the parameters of the law.
-Salbatore Verdejo

((Sorry I haven't been to active, I've been at camp all week and am trying to catch up. I'll be on more soon.))
 

Luftwafer

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((Private))
To father De Valle

You have broken the law and been convicted by your peers, the essential part of the Spanish Justice System.
I in my capacity of Primate of Toledo, have judged that you are not adequately perceived to be a member of the Clergy in Spain or anywhere in the Catholic Church, something that I regret. So in an attempt to save the Catholic church and yourself the embarrassment of disgrace I must ask you to resign your position as Priest.
This is not something I do easily but I feel it is better for the Catholic church's image and it's goal to bring the Light of God to all of God's favoured creations.

Thank you, I beg you consider this and act by doing whatever you feel is best.

In the Light of God
The Primate of Spain
The Archbishop of Toledo
 
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TJDS

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((Private))
To the Primate of Spain,

I shall not resign for my opinions expressed and the work I have done for Spanish Democracy. Father, I must express my sadness that you have become associated with a Secular Inquisition which mercilessly hunted down men, women and children who opposed the horrible war that brought King Carlos V (God bless his soul) to the throne. Father, I must ask you, did you try everyhing in your considerable influence as Primate of Spain and renowned Man of Peace and Compassion - for which every Primate and Cleric should be known - to ask for mercy for these men, women and childern? Did you do everything in your considerable influence to do as demanded in the Works of Charity in Matthew, did you ransom those captives, did you admonish the sinners, did you forgive the offenses willingly, and did you pray for the unsavable living and dead? Oh Father, did you practice what you preached?

Your humble servant,
Don de Valle
 
Last edited:

Michaelangelo

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If this proposed law is so detrimental to His Majesty's powers, then he will simply just refuse to sign it into law, as is his prerogative. This body is designed to advise His Majesty, and such a proposal counts as said advice. Even if this proposal were passed by the Assembly, it would not be legally binding until His Majesty consented to it. Perhaps the Marquis should stop wasting our time by badgering the members of this Assembly and focus more on convincing His Majesty of the supposed flaws of this act, seeing as the latter is the only one with the power to decide whether or not this proposal will be implemented.

- Random MpL member
 

Luftwafer

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((Private))
To De Valle

You have left me no choice
You are to attend the relevant ceremony for laicization at the cathedral of Toledo
((I have no idea what this entails. But even if you don't come, you're no longer a member of the clergy))

May god have Mercy
The primate of Spain
The archbishop of Toledo