Eire in Abberation II

[MattyG]

Abberation 1 gave Eire a ten year explorer in 1426, enabling them to explore the whole East coast of North America and discover up to 16 provinces. I found this implausible, especially that Eire would explore and colonise for two full generations before the rest of Europe begins to care. And in terms of game balance, this was way too early, especially with the built-in EU2 hyper-colonising engine.

In Aberration II that explorer is currently delayed until 1435 and lasts 18 months, enough to discover Greeland or Newfoundland/Acadie. I would prefer to see that explorer not happen until the 1470s. This might better explain why the rest of Europe does not begin exploring until the early 1500s.

This would mean two significant changes to Eire in the early game.

1. They can be more easily conquered or DiploAnnexed (ah, the hated DA beast again).

2. The cool Henry the Navigator storyline would need to change.


Here's the alternative storyline I offer.

1. Henry arrives in Eire. If he is accepted as an advisor, then he grants the bonuses and gets a short trip himself to discover a few sea zones, before dying at sea. If he is not accepted, then there are no bonuses, but Henry finances his own trip, but still dies at sea.

2. Basing himself on the 'failed' trip of Henry, Finn Tuohy realises Henry's dream of exploration and sails west in 1470 with the partial maps Henry built. He discovers either Greenland or Newfoundland.

3. Finn Tuohy is granted another exploration in 1492. His further discoveries kick off the spate of explorers from the rest of Europe beginning in about 1505.

4. If the Eir-ish discover Vinland in 1470, the Vinlanders will get an explorer themselves in 1478. Otherwise, they get one in 1492, the same year the Eir-ish do. Otherwise the possibilities are waaaaay too cooky.

 

[Reveilled]

But if Henry had financed his own expedition, wouldn't he have sailed south to round Africa?

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I don't think it's a problem that Eire gets an early start on exploration. Even if Eire manages to discover lots of land in New World before others, they don't really have the income to monopolize New World before the others come to share. This early start is really the big thing to make Eire viable. If it starts alongside with others, it's weak position to expand in Europe ensures it's going to get trampled in any heated competition for colonies, leading it down to the path of second-rate power.

Also the slow ships of early years ensure that while Irish might be able to explore North America before others, the scarcity of explorers later on makes them less able to discover Asia and it's riches.

 

[Reveilled]

The problem I see with these year-or-so Explorers is that it would make it impossible (or so it seems to me) to actually play Ireland "historically" (if you'll forgive the term). If the explorers only last eighteen months, will it actually be possible to use them to round the cape of good hope like Henry would have had them do? I know that when I've played Ireland in the current version, I haven't been able to start exploring the Americas until my fourth explorer because it usually takes the first three just to reach Indonesia.

 

[MattyG]

It's only Finn Tuohy who lasts that length of time. And many of the other early explorers. Otherwise they simply explore too much too easily, leading to a 5K city in the Yukon about 400 years before it happened (1960s).

Later explorers will last longer and longer, enabling them to travel greater distances.

I get your general point, Byahkhiaiam (rright ssppelliing?), but I don't think gameplay needs to be sacrificed in order to create a less ludicrous situation. They still get the jump on colonisation, and we can give them explorers later on, as well. Our hands are not tied in any way. Eire would be able to find the orient too.

Plus, the addition of Vinland calls out for later exploration by Eire. Maybe we could start them in the 1450s?

 

[MattyG]

But if Henry had financed his own expedition, wouldn't he have sailed south to round Africa?

The real Henry or ours? This is Aberration and he's working for Eire.

The problem with these historical explorers is EU2 allows them to explore five times what they could historically (conquistadors are event worse). And players are not held back by historical precedence. So if you create someone who can round the Cape of Good Hope in 1425, players are going to say "Screw that, I'm going to spend those ten years mapping the whole of the East Coast and Caribbean and taking the righ sugar islands."

It becomes a serious issue of game play, and exploration and colonialism are the most abusive parts of all of EU2. Yes, even worse than DiploAnnexation.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

1450s sounds reasonable compromise.

 

[MattyG]

1450s it is.

You are right about Eire and its late game, and this will be doubly so in the Aberration II late game with the intensity of rebellions on the East coast and formation (possibly) of the RFA. Quebec is now also a handful, as it has a great leader and president/dictator.

Now, any player in control of Eire will of course find other ways to get hold of maps, but I will still note that they require an explorer and conquistador in the 1600s.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

Suggestion :-

Eire in my opinion is another version of the British Empire, perhaps Eire should become the Gaelic Empire close to the end of the 17th century?

 

[unmerged(41665)]

re Calipah

I think, that shield have been better doing in style from EGUFSM.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Calipah, that would be too much like Vanilla.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

Calipah, that would be too much like Vanilla.

It was actually a joke

 

[MattyG]

So, instead of being on the forums I have been working away steadily at a number of projects. Mostly The Abassid Caliphate with Calipah, but also the reconfiguration of explorers and the events that trigger them for Scotland, Hansa and Eire.

So, he's what I have done for Eire.

1. Henry arrives. If you make him an advisor you get some nice (but toned down) bonuses. And you can fund his longer voyage (about 9 months, then he dies at sea). If you don't fund it, he finds other backers and lasts a shorter time. Or, you can make him a military leader. Less cash to do so and fewer bonuses, but you get him as an admiral, and he goes from there straight to the shorter, self-funded voyage.

2. The next explorer is Finn Tuathaigh, who heads out (if you fund his trip ) in 1450 and lasts long enough to find Acadie and(probably) Vinland.

3. 1492, and Eire gets another explorer, long enough to find Hudsons Bay, Flroida, or Florida and Caribbean. This event triggers the rest of Europe to finally start exploring. Eire, however, goes quiet for a while and builds colonies.

4. 1560s and along comes Kebhan Tuathaigh, their finest explorer, who lasts over 11 years, has great stats and can probably explor all the way to India. He has with him a Conquistador who does not last as long.

Then they get two more explorers in total, and a few short lifespan conquistadors (they need to be).

Matty

 

[unmerged(16159)]

Finn and Kebhan Tuathaigh. That would be the gaelic for Finn and Kevin Touhy?

Anyway. good intervention in the Eire file. Anything which controls Eire carpeting america in green by 1500 is a fine thing by me.

 

[MattyG]

That would be it, mikl.

We will have to see how it actually plays out, but I think we have it close. I will try the first 40 years of Eire and push-push-push to abuse their explorers and make sure it isn't over the top. As has been said elsewhere, there's little point giving them too much terrain too early, as they cannot afford to colonise it all anyway.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Remember that basing explorer and conquistador avaibility on good players' best achievements, when focusing on exploration, is not perhaps the best way to determine amount of explorers. If explorers are scarce enough that good player discovers only a small amount, when focusing on it, think how it will work on a poorer player or in a game where you can't focus fully on exploration in the short timelines of explorers.

So, Eire has single explorer for 18 months before 1492 and then another for similiar short while. These guys might be able to find Acadie and Florida respectively in hands of good players who get lucky and / or have time and money to waste on exploration. So here, assume that in 1450s, we have Eire embroiled in a war, a long war at that, maybe even one declared on it. Eighteen months can be long time in peace, but if you forget to check that he arrived in midst of war, he can easily die off at port.

 

[MattyG]

Bykaihiamy,

How many newbies actually play mods? If you are playing SP and you mess up and forget your only explorer, you just go back and redo. If you are playing MP and you are not being attentive to such a vital element for Eire as exploration, then you deserved to be flayed mercilessly. There are a lot of capable players out there who play Aberration, I think. And the fewer exploits we have that can lead to game imbalances, the better. I am not in favour of building a mod with safety nets for the inept.

Also, you get two years worth of explorers before 1492, Henry for six months and Finn for 18. But this is just the current model. It all needs to be playtested. Nothing is set in stone and everything can be adjusted. I might be wildly wrong about how long Finnshould last. If so, I will be happy to admit the error and change the dates.

Matty

 

[unmerged(20077)]

There's no K in Irish...

 

[Incompetent]

So, Eire has single explorer for 18 months before 1492 and then another for similiar short while. These guys might be able to find Acadie and Florida respectively in hands of good players who get lucky and / or have time and money to waste on exploration. So here, assume that in 1450s, we have Eire embroiled in a war, a long war at that, maybe even one declared on it. Eighteen months can be long time in peace, but if you forget to check that he arrived in midst of war, he can easily die off at port.

Hmm, I've also worried about this. Perhaps for really critical pioneers such as the early Irish ones, their activation events should have the options 'fund an expedition immediately' and 'wait a while for better circumstances', with the latter activating a pioneer with slightly later dates (say 5 years later).

 

[MattyG]

There's no K in Irish...

Good to know.