Egypt

[bombshellboi]

Hi guys. Couldnt find the relavant thread so im just starting this.

Ive noticed after recently downloading AGCEEP that Egypt has Georgian culture...
And im curious to know if this was done intentionally or by accident?

If it was intentional it seems rather mad to me...

 

[unmerged(9404)]

It's better than giving them Shiite religion...

It is another way of hampering the Mameluks but in a teensy bit more historic background than the way the vanilla scenario handles it.

 

[unmerged(25696)]

Historically, the Mameluks came from that area (Caucasus, though I don't remember where exactly). So, this depicts the fact that the upper class are foreigners.

 

[unmerged(9146)]

Historically, the Mameluks came from that area (Caucasus, though I don't remember where exactly).

Actually, they came from various areas in Georgia, Caucasus and Balkans (though the Egyptian Mameluks in the EU2 period are indeed mostly of Georgian and Circassian origin).

 

[Norrefeldt]

Hi guys. Couldnt find the relavant thread so im just starting this.

Ive noticed after recently downloading AGCEEP that Egypt has Georgian culture...
And im curious to know if this was done intentionally or by accident?

If it was intentional it seems rather mad to me...

Actually they have caucasian culture. In the game files it's called georgian, but in the game it's displayed as the wider group caucasian.

 

[saskganesh]

they colonise and then you see "georgian" culture establishments in the Horn. odd that, but no biggee.

 

[crash63]

It's explained in the Read me.

 

[unmerged(31542)]

They probably should get arab culture eventually (late 16th century) as the Mameluke elite became integrated. I'm assuming they didn't speak Turk/Circassian forever.

 

[unmerged(21523)]

They probably should get arab culture eventually (late 16th century) as the Mameluke elite became integrated. I'm assuming they didn't speak Turk/Circassian forever.

Well, their state was annexed by the Ottomans in 1517, so such an event would be pure fantasy.

 

[unmerged(9146)]

Well, their state was annexed by the Ottomans in 1517, so such an event would be pure fantasy.

The state might have been annexed by the Ottomans, but the Mameluks themselves stayed in power in Egypt (although as Turkish subjects now) well into 19th century, so speculating about what could have happened to Mameluks after 1517 isn't really pure fantasy.

 

[Garbon]

The Mameluks have an event that can make them return in the late 18th century, although they still return without arabic culture.

 

[Norrefeldt]

The Mameluks have an event that can make them return in the late 18th century, although they still return without arabic culture.

If there are tags enough I'd prefer two different nations here. The starting one would have caucasian culture and the cores the have now. It would be called Mamelukes since that's how they are known nowadays, to separate them from the Fatamids and the modern state.
The other one, a late game revolter, could be called Egypt, with cores of the modern (20th century) state and arabic culture.

EDIT: We have already reserved two tags for this, the EGY and the MAM one. We should discuss it further before possible implementation though.

 

[Garbon]

If there are tags enough I'd prefer two different nations here. The starting one would have caucasian culture and the cores the have now. It would be called Mamelukes since that's how they are known nowadays, to separate them from the Fatamids and the modern state.
The other one, a late game revolter, could be called Egypt, with cores of the modern (20th century) state and arabic culture.

EDIT: We have already reserved two tags for this, the EGY and the MAM one. We should discuss it further before possible implementation though.

Alternatively, since in general we don't want the Mameluks revolting once they've been taken out, the revolter could simply be the late game revolter Egypt. Of course, now without a tag crunch it couldn't hurt to split them.

 

[Norrefeldt]

I agree. Even if there historically were old Mameluke structure left in the state that revolted, it would be better to separate them, due to cores and culture.
The scenario file for the MAM tag have no cores I notice.
I suggest cores between Cyrenaica and Sinai and down to Nile and Cataract for EGY.

 

[Arturro]

Cyrenaica is, and almost alvays was part of Libia, not Egypt. More - Cyrenaica is rather berber, than arab.

 

[unmerged(21523)]

The Egypt that revolted away from the OE late-game actually did away with many of the remaining traces of the old Mamluk system, such that Egypt the late game revolter and Egypt the Mamluk Sultanate are two completely different countries deserving of seperate tags. Late-game Egypt should have Arabic culture and no Syrian cores. And if you'll pardon the linguistic purism, does anyone mind if we use the spelling "Mamluk" instead of "Mameluk" as the former is much better transliteration from the Arabic.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Leaving Cyrenaica out of the cores makes sense. And it should be Mamluk, I agree. So does google.

 

[chegitz guevara]

Why no Syrian cores? They conquered Syria from the Ottomans in the early 19th Century.

 

[Hive]

Why no Syrian cores? They conquered Syria from the Ottomans in the early 19th Century.

They also conquered Crete around the same time.

 

[unmerged(21523)]

Why no Syrian cores? They conquered Syria from the Ottomans in the early 19th Century.

True--but they didn't keep it very long.