Egalitarians and Robots don't mix.

[Disalign]

Just as a PSA that I'd like to see fixed: Egalitarians are upset over any free pops having migration controls.

Synths with citizen rights don't have the option to NOT have migration controls.

Egalitarians are pissed off about this, for some reason.

Can we get a soft fix to make it so that the migration controls part of the egalitarian faction don't take into account robots, even synths with citizen rights?

 

[AmpsterMan]

Two things:

Your title is misleading. I came here ready to tell you how robots are almost mandatory for egalitarians. XD

You should post this in the bug forum

 

[Disalign]

Oh no, you're correct. Robots and Egalitarians is a match made in heaven. The issue is just that though, the egal faction isn't too bright xD

 

[TheRomanRuler]

I have not played as either of them - why are they match made in heaven (without this bug)?

 

[Less2]

I have not played as either of them - why are they match made in heaven (without this bug)?

Egalitarians are penalized by higher CG costs, the most punishing of which is for the worker strata and which is multiplied by low habitability. Robots get around all this.

To put it another way, all races are equal but some pops still need to be more equal than others

 

[Disalign]

I have not played as either of them - why are they match made in heaven (without this bug)?

Theres also the fact that with utopian abundance it's very easy for synthetically evolved empires to reach 100% pop approval rating.

 

[Kaios26]

To put it another way, all races are equal but some pops still need to be more equal than others

Everyone in the galaxy deserves their own personal, full service, butler, toaster, and personal assistant. Plus all those dangerous and tedious jobs in the mines, on the farms, and in a power plant? What right thinking sentient wants to do them? Its the 24th Century, we have automation for that!

 

[Rezca]

I haven't played an Egalitarian empire yet, so this is good to know ahead of time!

It kinda reminds me once upon a time of the Spiritualist factions getting angsty over colonizing Tomb Worlds, and immediately getting upset after finishing the Horizon Signal because of what it does at the end heh.

 

[Shadowstrike]

Better question: why do synths necessarily have migration controls? If I am building a society of Datas, that doesn't necessarily mean I want them all tied down to one location. Droids and robots not being able to move makes sense (and egalitarian shouldn't be upset by the lack of their migration). Strangely, egalitarians are entirely ok as long as I dont give robots citizen rights

 

[Disalign]

Better question: why do synths necessarily have migration controls? If I am building a society of Datas, that doesn't necessarily mean I want them all tied down to one location. Droids and robots not being able to move makes sense (and egalitarian shouldn't be upset by the lack of their migration). Strangely, egalitarians are entirely ok as long as I dont give robots citizen rights

It actually makes sense on a balance level since that would cause just.. rampant declining population for robots, since it would try to reduce pop growth instead of pop assembly (since theres no reason for them to be reducing pop assembly by leaving) and that would reduce it below 0. Since growth for robots is locked at 0. Migration just doesn't make coding sense for robots. Yet egalitarians are pissed that they can't migrate xD

 

[Shadowstrike]

Couldn't you introduce another migration variable simply for synths? I mean if migration numbers were per species, rather than overall, this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Bodaijusawa Takahide]

Oh no, you're correct. Robots and Egalitarians is a match made in heaven. The issue is just that though, the egal faction isn't too bright xD

Which is a natural law and although annoying as in real life, it kinda makes sense.

 

[Tobasco da Gama]

I mean if migration numbers were per species, rather than overall, this wouldn't be a problem.

That wouldn't solve this particular problem (although it would make more logical sense anyway).

Disalign is talking about the fact that Emigration is a penalty on Growth. But Synths are not affected by Growth, they have a totally separate stat called Assembly.

For an organic pop, having an Emigration Push higher than Immigration Pull results in a penalty to Growth. If Growth goes below zero, the planet starts Declining, which eventually causes pops to start disappearing.

But since all organic pops have an innate Growth value of something like 3, so it takes a very large Emigration Push to cause them to decline. Synthetics, on the other hand, have 0 Growth (they can only be Assembled), so any Emigration whatsoever would immediately cause Decline on a planet composed entirely of Synthetics.

The correct solution would be your first suggestion, which is to have Emigration on synthetic pops affect Assembly instead of Growth.

 

[RabbaDooDabba]

It's the same with slaves.

The progressive faction is in dire need of some tweaking, the faction by itself should just care about full citizens.

 

[Cry_Havok]

It's the same with slaves.

The progressive faction is in dire need of some tweaking, the faction by itself should just care about full citizens.

Not really, it should be the abolitionist faction (along with xenophile)

 

[Shadowstrike]

That wouldn't solve this particular problem (although it would make more logical sense anyway).

Disalign is talking about the fact that Emigration is a penalty on Growth. But Synths are not affected by Growth, they have a totally separate stat called Assembly.

For an organic pop, having an Emigration Push higher than Immigration Pull results in a penalty to Growth. If Growth goes below zero, the planet starts Declining, which eventually causes pops to start disappearing.

But since all organic pops have an innate Growth value of something like 3, so it takes a very large Emigration Push to cause them to decline. Synthetics, on the other hand, have 0 Growth (they can only be Assembled), so any Emigration whatsoever would immediately cause Decline on a planet composed entirely of Synthetics.

The correct solution would be your first suggestion, which is to have Emigration on synthetic pops affect Assembly instead of Growth.

So effectively, you have two separate counters: "Growth" for all organics, and "Assembly" for all machines, and both would have separate immigration pull/pushes. But if each species has its own Growth counter, then the Synthetic Assembly mechanic simply becomes like another species.

That said, it could also be viable to treat synthetics as a kind of organic pop that has "natural" growth. You would imagine that sentient AI might want to reproduce, rather than just wait for the state to decide to assemble more of them.

 

[RabbaDooDabba]

Not really, it should be the abolitionist faction (along with xenophile)

A dichotomy like pacifist/xenophobe and non-pacifist/xenophobe would be nice.

I guess with abolitionist faction you mean a faction that has xenophile and egalitarian ethics ?

 

[buglepong]

"Egalitarians want everyone to be equal even if its impossible"
Sounds kind of realistic - emergent gameplay!!

 

[nuyu]

Does robot need to travel physically? We have instantaneous FTL communications. Just upload and download what it need.

 

[Badesumofu]

Turning on AI rights causes this even if you only have Droids. It also prevents you from resettling Droids (which it shouldn't).

You can still get the faction to 60 approval by researching selected lineages and then not turning it on.

Thread title is pretty misleading, though. Robots are awesome for Egalitarian and especially for Shared Burdens. A living standard that makes rulers and specialists cheaper but workers more expensive becomes especially helpful when nearly all your workers are robots. Shared Burdens/Mechanist is a pretty powerful combo and good RP - robotic socialism for the win.