EEP The Americas

[Jools]

Welcome to the Americas Thread!

The following regions/nations will be dealt with here.
-Pirates! ARGH!
-Natives
-Revolters/Colonists

The THREADMASTER is SHRINEGUARD

It is up to HER and the interested in how you should be organise. Each of the geo-regions/nations SHOULD have their own Mod Team though you can link some if it will ease work.

Each Mod Team should have:
a)scripter
b)event tester
c)historian

Events submitted in the thread, if worthy, will be implemented into the game and tested by the Mod Team members. Next, they should be sent to the THREADMASTER who will assemble a america.zip file and send it to the EEP Supreme Command which assemble the master mod.

It will be much better if you will co-operate and help each other. No flaming, no nationalistic remarks. Only solid proven historical facts.

THIS POST WILL BE EDITED ONCE IN A WHILE... like today 28-11

old threads
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20741

 

[Niptium]

Natives

I think you'll have to rethink the way you deal with American Natives.

I'm not fond of the way the Natives are implemented in EU2 right now.

First, when I play as France or England and I want my colonies to be reflective of my effort. The thing is with the way it's done now, the Hurons and the Lenape control a lot of provinces you'll have to conquer as an European power to expand. I don't like it after capturing Hochelaga, that I have to make a genocide and then having to send a colonist to make the culture french. Hochelaga was colonized by french people in the 1600's and it's now called Montréal. The amerindians, as the years passed by migrated toward toward the Great Lakes. If I own this province, well at least the town should be named MONTRÉAL (I'm talking about the town, not the province, so no need to redo the board)! Same thing goes for Manhattan. If an european power successfully captures it, the Amerindians should then be gone and leave the land for European colonization.

So the solution I propose, is when you get a province from the Amerindians in a peace treaty, the land would then be free : no city, no people, just a trading post marking your posession. The "disapearing" amerindian locals would symbolize the migration toward the inner continent. That way, we'll be able to colonize the land the way it was really happening in these times.

There never was any Huron culture in Montréal city, neither Lenape culture in New Amsterdam ! Because if I follow the way it's implemented right now, there would be a freaking lot of dancing-around-the-fire-feather-wearing new yorkers and montrealers nowadays.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Perhaps one solution might be to use an event that triggers a change of cultures in certain New World provinces that start out owned by Native nations, such as Manhattan, Delaware, and Hochelaga. An event would occur in, say 1650, that would change the province culture to match the state culture of whomever owned the province. This would allow the colony to adapt to whomever owns it, and doesn't punish the Native nation if it still owns the province.

 

[Jools]

Indeed, that is a good solution...

 

[Niptium]

Yeah.

But you'll have to repeat that event in 1650, 1700, 1750 and 1800 just to make sure that every New American colony adapt itself, not just the one before 1650.

 

[Jools]

I guess it would be just one event triggered every time a foreign power has conquered Indian lands. After say a city is built next to the indian culture province and x years have passed the province changes culture.

 

[AllonEU]

I could handle some events for the U.S. and Latin American revolters.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Re: Yeah.

Originally posted by Niptium
But you'll have to repeat that event in 1650, 1700, 1750 and 1800 just to make sure that every New American colony adapt itself, not just the one before 1650.

I was thinking that only Native provinces that were heavily colonized by 1800 would be converted to the new culture throughevents in 1650, 1700, etc., such as the Atlantic seaboard, the St. Lawrence, etc. The problem with this is that it assumes that the colonization of North America proceeds at roughly the same pace (i.e. no major colonization beyond the coast before early 1700s). Is there any way to code the event so that the culture changes occurs, say, fifty years after conquering it?

 

[Niptium]

No... it doesn't work !

After putting much thoughts on this I came to a conclusion.

You just cannot "CHANGE" de culture of the province. First of all, the city wouldn't appear on the City Window... that solution wouldn't answer that problem. And second of all, as we can see in history, the indian of captured land didn't stay there and even if they'd wanted to, the europeans wouldn't have accepted. A peace treaty meant, in those times that the amerindians had to leave the country for european colonization. So from that angle, it doesn't make sens to have a colony of 5000 pagans. I think the best solution to answer this is to come back to the first one I gave : when you win a province from the Iroquois, Hurons, Cherokee, Delaware or whatever... the only thing that would remain is a trading post marking your posession. That way, the first colonist sent would be able to establish the culture, the religion and finally the name of the city of the province.

 

[unmerged(5000)]

it would be fun if natives in different colony had different aggresivity rates toward different european nations. So if you are england and have annexed iroquis and you try sending colonist to some "empty" north american province natives should be more aggresive towards you than towards french who havent conquered or waged any wars against north american nations......

this is most likely not possible to implement

 

[ShrineGuard]

Just an idea I thought about for a possible revolter in the Americas.

Being from Louisiana, I remembered of a short-lived 'country' so to speak, that arose from the confusion after the Louisiana purchase. In 1804, due to tensions with English-speaking people in the spanish lands to the east of the Mississippi that were left out from the Louisiana, there was a small revolt, followed in 1810 by the formation of The Republic of West Florida. It didn't last long, because the US then annexed them. Perhaps West Florida can be included as a potential revolter in Biloxi? Make some revolts in that prov if the Louisiana purchase occurs?

Lemme know what you guys think.

 

[unmerged(2540)]

Well, I think that if one chooses to play as an Amerindian nation, the options to them should not simply be:

1)Wait for the Europeans, then surrender because they are so adbanced

or

2) Attack your neighbours, consolidate your power, see the ship coming on the horizon, start to cough, wathc half your pop die off, then surrender

Is there no way that the fact that the Amerindians were very adept at fighting in their lands be shown? No way to have them gain a modifier versus the European colonisers? Perhaps one that can be implemented in an event? A sort of:

"Strange Visitors:

During this period, explorers and adventurers were coming from the Old World. Some were peaceable, others not. The Amerindian tribes were forced to use the element of surprise against the settlers.

Then give a certain modifier immediately. I mean, is it not generally accepted that the American Nations(Iroquois, Huron, Algonquin,etc; ) were very adept at forest warfare? That they used the elemnt of surprise to devestating effect?

Also, since I am on the topic, make it possible for the Amerindian nations to walk in and wipe out colonies. It happened in real life, and should be allowed in the game. Think about it, there are 100, 200, maybe 300 people in a small village in a hostile land. They are surrounded by natives that do not want them there. I do not think that the colonists have a chance.

Also, why is it so easy to colonise the coast of America. It wasn't in real life. How many settlements failed? Granted, after much settling, the lands came under European control, but at the very beginning, it was not so. I doubt this is doable(or perhaps just very hard), but having an event that reduces the pop increase percentage for European nations in any province until it hits level 3 at least. At level 1 or 2, make it a negative or a very low modifier.

Just my two cents

 

[unmerged(4868)]

Originally posted by Johnny Canuck
Perhaps one solution might be to use an event that triggers a change of cultures in certain New World provinces that start out owned by Native nations, such as Manhattan, Delaware, and Hochelaga. An event would occur in, say 1650, that would change the province culture to match the state culture of whomever owned the province. This would allow the colony to adapt to whomever owns it, and doesn't punish the Native nation if it still owns the province.

great idea! this seems like a good solution, as it allows the Europeans and Americans to "assimilate" the conquered native american provinces into their own nations. At the same time, I don't see it as being "intrusive" to the Indian nations themselves. After all, as you stated, the events wont take effect UNTIL the native americans had already lost those provinces to the whites.

 

[ShrineGuard]

Yes I agree with this as well, and to add another dimension to the indians dissappearing further back into the wilds of America, perhaps there could be random events that work like the plauge event and knock down a colonies pop if it is in the central US...This could represent the now-angry indians dissappearing and popping up to kill colonists...Happened a lot IRL, so maybe we can work out the specifics for some event on it.

 

[das]

Could I join?

I got some an ideas for events!
Aztec Event:

#Aztec Relations to Spanish#
event = {
id = 6000
trigger = {
= {
- discovered = SPA (if Aztecs have contact with Spanish) }
}
random = no
country = AZT
name = "Aztec Relations with Spanish"
desc = "After Cortez has established first European contact with Aztec Empire, locals has thoughts that he is a god Quitzcoatl. This however helped him to eventually take over Aztec Empire, and only in rebellion of "Grim Night", his control was damaged."
style = 4

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1492 }
offset = 720
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1535 }

action_a ={
name = "Recognize Cortez as a God and doon't let other Tribes attack him"
command = { type = vassal which = SPA }
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = +100 }
command = { type = stability value = -3 }
}
action_b ={
name = "Recognize Cortez as a God but ignore other tribes"
command = { type = vassal which = SPA }
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = +50 }
command = { type = natives which = 29 value = 35 }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
}
action_c ={
name = "Don't recognzie Cortez as a god"
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = -150 }
command = type = natives which = 29 value = 35 }

Tommorow, I will post "Grim Night" event!

 

[Jools]

WHO Wants TO Be THE Threadmaster?

 

[ShrineGuard]

Hmmm...I'm wondering just what this event does...Well, I see most of what it does, but I'd like a little explaination, just because I'm like that

 

[ShrineGuard]

I sent ya a PM about that, I volunteered

 

[ShrineGuard]

Time to get organized

Ok...as the new threadmaster, I want to start with one thing before we focus on anything else.

We've all been going over how the American Indians work, and what we think of them, how they interfere with colonization and whatnot. We've said yes, they were there, they posed a problem, but one requiring 30,000 European troops for a 100 person colony? No.

So then we talked about possible events to push the Indians back...this would make them pretty unplayable, but the focus of the game is Europe, so I don't see a serious problem with that.

So my question to you is: Would you like to keep the Indian nations as they are and use events to push them back from the coast at first when the European nations begin to colonize, or what? Check out the earlier posts on possibilies for events, and give me some input. Thanks

 

[ShrineGuard]

And on a leadership note, if anyone would like to fill any of the positions for the mod team (Historian, Scripter, Tester) please let me know either by posting here or PM.

We all know the Americas are the best, so let's make them the best