I totally agree. Roussillon should have the same culture as the other catalan provinces. It has been suggested that the canarian culture could be used for the catalan culture. Moreover, if the catalan culture is added, so must be a portuguese one.
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Please don't get me wrong; I proposed that Roussillon should have the same culture as the rest of Catalonia no matter what (i.e. it should immediately become Iberian). I don't want to tie this change to the introduction of Catalan or Portuguese, although this is something I support, too, because this will be very controversial, especially considering the EEP's rather conservative attitude towards new cultures, while iberian (or catalan) culture for Roussillon is a relatively clear case - nobody can seriously reject this.
Conservative or not, but I'm of an opinion that culture is just a parameter limiting the growth of the empires, and not a real thing. I'd prefer to leave those drastic changes to AGC -- they already turned everything upside down on that front.
But, limited changes can be adopted, but splitting scandinavian and iberian -- too drastic for my tatses.
That's why I said that I just want Roussillon to be turned Iberian, since a French Roussillon in 1419 is ridiculous - Spain would never have lost it if Felipe hadn't wanted to punish the Catalonians for revolting against the crown (and Spain should therefore also get a shield on it).
I'm of two minds on Rousillon.
First off, on the map the province is MUCH bigger than Rousillon ever was in real life. Note that the province is PLAINS for crying in the soup- not what Rousillon is in real life. All the extra territory would start French. To me the most accurate solution would be to add Rousillon to French starting territories, leave it French culture, and let Aragon keep the shield there (not sure whether Spain would get one).
That said I think the reason Paradox gave it to Aragon was to promote conflict in the area, which is very appropriate, and to maek France work to get it's homeland. These seem to me to be appropriate goals. Changing the culture of Rousillin to Iberian is historically unwarranted (to me) but it is not unreasonable. The net effect of the change would be to change the balance between Spain and France in Spain's favour, which I like.
So I don;t think it makes the game more accurate, but I do think it makes the game better. I have to abstain on this one.
First off, on the map the province is MUCH bigger than Rousillon ever was in real life. Note that the province is PLAINS for crying in the soup- not what Rousillon is in real life. All the extra territory would start French. To me the most accurate solution would be to add Rousillon to French starting territories, leave it French culture, and let Aragon keep the shield there (not sure whether Spain would get one).
That said I think the reason Paradox gave it to Aragon was to promote conflict in the area, which is very appropriate, and to maek France work to get it's homeland. These seem to me to be appropriate goals. Changing the culture of Rousillin to Iberian is historically unwarranted (to me) but it is not unreasonable. The net effect of the change would be to change the balance between Spain and France in Spain's favour, which I like.
So I don;t think it makes the game more accurate, but I do think it makes the game better. I have to abstain on this one.
Well, as the easternmost province north of the Pyrenees, it simulates fairly well what Roussillon is, although I agree that it's much bigger than the real Roussillon. In general provinces have not an accurate representation according to their names; take Gibraltar, for example, it's a zillion times bigger than the real Gibraltar, but it's there to simulate the control of the Gibraltar Strait, and it works well: if you control Gibraltar you have a very good control of the ships through the strait. So, again with Roussillon, it simulates fairly well a province north of the mountains, controlling french movements.
So... I agree with Twoflower and Havard
So... I agree with Twoflower and Havard
And the city is Perpinyà, which is definitely Catalan (it even was the second biggest city of Catalonia). French possessions in the southwest are reflected by the Languedoc and Guyenne provinces, and if you think that the catalan province of Roussillon (or actually Rosselló) is too big or too wealthy, reduce its tax and manpower and add them to the southernmost french provinces (and I don't really think that the province is much too big. What french territories do you think are in the province? Certainly most of it was catalan and owned by Aragon / later Spain)
I don't think its tax or manpower are too high. As you have said Perpinyà was one of the wealthiest and more dynamic cities of the crown (in fact in 1419 it was only surpassed by Barcelona and València).
I'd say that more or less half the EU2 province is the real Rosselló (in reality it embraces 1/4 of the Pyrenees, in EU2 a half). But, as I've said in the previous post, I don't think that this could be very relevant.
... in other words
: the only change I'd make to the original setup would be to give iberian culture to the Rosselló
As you've noted it's a quarter of the Pyrennes. The width of the province isn't too out of whack with Rousillon, especially if you include the other province further west that also went from Aragon to Spain (can't remember the name). I admit that I hadn't realized that Perpignan was so important at this time. But let me repeat that the EU province is plains. Which Rousillon in real life certainly isn't.
That said, as I've explained I don't really object to the change, as I think weakening France is a good thing to do, and the propose change is certainly reasonable.
That said, as I've explained I don't really object to the change, as I think weakening France is a good thing to do, and the propose change is certainly reasonable.
Well, any progress in the last ideas presented here? Some of them I would like to see included in the next release are:
* The culture and/or terrain of Rosselló/Roussillon as discussed in the last posts.
* The capital of Aragón to Barcelona.
* Alatriste's new AI for Aragón.
* The new language pool for Aragonese & Catalan random leaders
* My colonial events for Spain (revised & enlarged)
All the discussion concerning these points are in the last two pages of this thread.
* The culture and/or terrain of Rosselló/Roussillon as discussed in the last posts.
* The capital of Aragón to Barcelona.
* Alatriste's new AI for Aragón.
* The new language pool for Aragonese & Catalan random leaders
* My colonial events for Spain
(revised & enlarged) All the discussion concerning these points are in the last two pages of this thread.
With the new removecot command I was wondering wether it could be a good idea to begin the scenario with a CoT of trade in Barcelona, removing it few years after the discovery of America. In 1419 Barcelona was still one of the greatest trade cities of the Mediterranean. The shifting to oceanic adventures following the discovery of America, as well as the union with Castilla and the loss of political power ended the preeminence of Barcelona as a CoT.
I support that idea. Generally we can have a much more dynamic and flexible CoT approach now. The impact on the whole timespan doesn't need to be regarded that thoroughly anymore because CoTs can come and go. Hence also e.g. Naples, Lyon or Kurland could start with one that they loose later.
We should not use the removecot command until it's out of beta.
In addition I would move Barcelona to Lisbon in say the 1430's. Even in 1419 Catalonia was past it's prime as a trade hub.
In addition I would move Barcelona to Lisbon in say the 1430's. Even in 1419 Catalonia was past it's prime as a trade hub.
The EEP 1.4 will be released after the final patch, so what's the reason for not using the removecot and badboy commands?
Because it's still only beta and they could be removed. Not very likely, but it could happend. Hence the last part of Isaac's sentence above: "until it's out of beta".