EEP Scandinavia (part deux)

[Arilou]

I'm not really decided, choosing Karl Knutsson should sleep the Murder of Engelbrekt (with him out of the way there is no reason) While choosing Engelbrekt... Well, I'm not sure what effects that should have. (a different "murder" event perhaps?) In any case I think KKB should still have a chance to be king...

Another possibility is using the "setflag" options, but I'm not really sure how they work, so that if Karl Knutsson is dismissed enough times (IE: Not made Marsk, not given command etc. etc.) another event fires without an option of making him king...

 

[Arilou]

I'm just now running my events through the parser, errors will be fixed

 

[Norrefeldt]

Sute]{h, would you mind run your events through the parser, there are so many errors? You could also remove the worst by loading them in the game. I corrected some but got fed up after 25 fixes, many serious ones., like missing } and iD conflicts.
Many 'relations', should be without s.

 

[Twoflower]

Not needed anymore; events are fixed now and will be in EEP 1.4.

 

[Sute]{h]

Originally posted by Twoflower
Not needed anymore; events are fixed now and will be in EEP 1.4.

Thank you very much. It will not happen again, now I have the parser up and running.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Engelbrekt rebellion

As my first EEP 1.4 game I'll try Sweden, to see your new events, and I am going to post my observations. First an original event serie, not working very well.

A Danish event triggers this rebellion between 1434 and 1436. You get three options, with the first two the leader Engelbrekt is sacrificed and the leader is slept. Third option breaks vassalage and Engelbrekt is not murdered and not slept, he becomes a national leader of Sweden. This is the idea, as far as I can tell.


The problem is you get Engelbrekt as a leader between 1431 and 1436, always, since you cannot sleep him, once he's in the game.
I suggest that the Danish event occurs earlier, 1433-1434. The leader Engelbrekt then get a lifespan between 1434 and 1436, he could be considered outmanouvered by the nobility if not murdered, as all leaders should die when they did, so to speak. Then the 'sleep' command will work, and the leader will be there for two short years only if the option with break vassalage is chosen. He shouldn't be a leader available to use in foreign wars if he's just a rebel leader.

EDIT: Sut]{e, PM for you.

 

[Sute]{h]

Hmm... The Engelbrekt rebellion isn't part of my events... I could have a look at it though. However I have made corrections in my events which is why I sent them to you last saturday. Currently I'm still ironing out some minor problems, but these corrections must wait for 1.4.2.

 

[Norrefeldt]

I know, I just posted here since you are the one that have done most Scandinavian stuff recently.
I just looked through the Danish monarchs, and there are times when there is no ruler, mostly the dates doesn't fit together exactly. What happens if there is for instance two months between the death of one king and the coronation of the next? In Paradox monarch files the old one die and the next one get coronated the same day.

EDIT: I see that your new submission of events are not based on EEP 1.4, but on you submission before that. This means I will have to do the same fixes again. Always base on latest EEP release, otherwise bugs tend to reappear again and again. (I would have written this in a PM; but i know you read them very infrequently, so it have to be in public.)

 

[Sute]{h]

Actually the changes are based on EEP 1.4. I havn't used my old files at all. What seems to be the problem?

As to monarchs the file seem to work on my machine. The deathdate isn't terrible important it seems. The only thing that matters is that the monarchs IDs is in sequens. The old monarchs keep their reign until at new is appointed.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Originally posted by Sute]{h
Actually the changes are based on EEP 1.4. I havn't used my old files at all. What seems to be the problem?

As to monarchs the file seem to work on my machine. The deathdate isn't terrible important it seems. The only thing that matters is that the monarchs IDs is in sequens. The old monarchs keep their reign until at new is appointed.

OK, then I might have seen something that was about to change, but never did, sorry.
If the monarchs work, I'm happy to use them, just wondered.

 

[Sute]{h]

Well I havn't encountered problems... but the required change in their IDs might cause some in the future. I'm currently running a game to check this. Don't know if there is a faster way of doing this? But the ID's in question are from 1229-1234. I kind of hoping that they aren't used by another country. If they are all the Danish monarchs must be moved as they have to be in sequens.

Also there is still some minor issuses with the events, but I will submit the corrected files as soon as the corrections has been tested. Perhaps they will make it to 1.4.2?

 

[Norrefeldt]

Should be possible to search the monarch directory for a certain available ID range, search foir 'id = 123' and you have a hundred numbers if you get no hit. Just tell me what range you want, so I can post it in my list!

 

[Sute]{h]

Well I tried the search but it doesn't get any hits. Not even when I know it should at least find my modified monarchs.dan. I suspect the search isn't able to read files with unknown extension.

The monarch.dan I sent you uses 1220-1235 plus 6356. I don't expect that I'm going to need more than this. The original Paradox file used 1220-1228 plus 6356.

 

[Sikker]

There was a discussion in the EUII discussion forum (mainly between Arilou and I) on the Scandinavian leaders.
We agreed (after some time ) that a total revision of the leaders were needed.

For instance Engelbrect (the first Swedish leader IIRC) only participated in sieges (in which he was somewhat succesful), so instead of giving him 2/2/3 it would make more sense giving him 2/2/2/1.
Also the Danes need to get more leaders - especially in the beginning. Many of Danish monarchs participated in quite a number of battles and it would not be unreasonable to give them leader status as well (and perhaps add a well known leader here and there).
The Norwegian leaders have crappy stats ... were they really that crappy? And so forth.

Also, one of my own little hobby horses (as Peter Ebbesen says ) is the high stats of the later Swedish leaders, so I'll certainly start a debate on that too.

Anyway, my main concern is if we should take this discussion up here, or if this thread is too crowded, start a new one.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Sikker
There was a discussion in the EUII discussion forum (mainly between Arilou and I) on the Scandinavian leaders.
We agreed (after some time ) that a total revision of the leaders were needed.

For instance Engelbrect (the first Swedish leader IIRC) only participated in sieges (in which he was somewhat succesful), so instead of giving him 2/2/3 it would make more sense giving him 2/2/2/1.

If he never fought a pitched battle - why even give decent battle stats? How about 2/1/2/1 ?

Many of Danish monarchs participated in quite a number of battles and it would not be unreasonable to give them leader status as well (and perhaps add a well known leader here and there).

The EEP has added two early 16th century Danish leaders: Otto Krumpen (4/2/4/1, 1519-1570) and Johan Rantzau (3/3/3, 1523-1565)

The Norwegian leaders have crappy stats ... were they really that crappy? And so forth.

Well, most of the early ones were crap

- Amund Bolt (2/1/2) was a nobleman/rebel leader who took a few minor castles, but never AFAIK fought a real battle...
- Olav Galle (2/1/2) was a nobleman/captain of Akershus castle and AFAIK he never fought a real battle...
- "Engelbriktsson" (sic) (3/1/1) I assume is Olav Engelbrektsson, the last Catholoc Archbishop of Norway who first fought a feud with Vincent Lunge (a danish leader, btw) and later led the rebellion against the Danish king Christian III (and lost). He never AFAIK commanded an army (but he built fortresses). He had a military commander though, Kristoffer Rustung, who should have been represented in the leader file.

 

[Arilou]

If we have enough IDs I think at least Christian I (didn't we add him already?) And Erik VII (as a naval leader) should be added.

 

[Sikker]

Well, Erik VII did fight a few battles in Sønderjylland (which is to say Southern Jutland and Holstein) against the local nobility (they were never too happy with the central governement).
However they ended in a draw (well, a slight victory to Erik actually) and a peace was made. A peace where the conditions weren't kept by the nobility and another war broke out. This time the nobility was aided by the Hansas and there was a major sea battle at Copenhagen which the Danes won. However at land much was lost, and the concessions gained at the first treaty was lost. Erik then got fed up with being king and became a pirate operating from Gotland.

This means that the main operations at sea was after he descended the throne - so maybe one should just give him some mediocre stats and make him a land leader?

Christoffer of Bavaria .... he had some serious battles with the peasants of Northern Jutland ... at first he lost, then he negotiated, and the ones left were crushed big time.

Anyway ... I think that was all of the leaders of the 15th century ... when there is an agreement here we can move on

Christian I led an assault on Stockholm personally and was soundly defeated ... not much to brag about there I'm afraid. - But according to Arilou he had a general (well, a noble of cause) of some sort who appearently were quite succesful.


The Swedish King Karl Knuttson Bonde, did a whole lot of rebelling but never to that much avail. He made some raids into Skåne but never did much damage except some random looting. He never sieged anything either. I could easily see som low leader stats for him (if he should be kept at all).

Engelbrecht. Well, he never really got the chance to fight anyone I guess. So the fire and shock values would pretty much be anyones guess. So I think we might as well keep them at average (2/2/2) - and then the one 1 siege value. However he was a rebel leader, so he should be given the lowest rank possible (if he hasn't already got that).

 

[Arilou]

Yes, he was a rebel leader, but he was also appointed Rikshövitsman (IE: Commander-in-chief) (although the latter position he shared with KKB)

 

[Norrefeldt]

Originally posted by Sikker
that a total revision of the leaders were needed.

For instance Engelbrect (the first Swedish leader IIRC) only participated in sieges (in which he was somewhat succesful), so instead of giving him 2/2/3 it would make more sense giving him 2/2/2/1.
Also the Danes need to get more leaders - especially in the beginning. Many of Danish monarchs participated in quite a number of battles and it would not be unreasonable to give them leader status as well (and perhaps add a well known leader here and there).
The Norwegian leaders have crappy stats ... were they really that crappy? And so forth.

Also, one of my own little hobby horses (as Peter Ebbesen says ) is the high stats of the later Swedish leaders, so I'll certainly start a debate on that too.

Anyway, my main concern is if we should take this discussion up here, or if this thread is too crowded, start a new one.

This is decent mission, I was very surprised when I saw all the late-game Swedish leaders as well. If Sweden deserves leaders during that period, than many other countries should have loads more. I think some of these leaders could be left out. A new thread could be the best, only for Scandinavian leaders.

 

[Arilou]

A few suggestions:

The Tott's might make for good leaders, I was mostly thinking of Olof Axelsson but there are more of them

Magnus Gren (first a supporter of KKB, but he fell out of favour and joined Christian I) might make for an average or slightly better danish naval leader (he made several raids from his base on Gotland and pillaged and burned)

BTW: The name of Christian I's commander was Claus Rönnow,