EEP Byzantium

[unmerged(9314)]

Just a smidge east of the capital - yourself?

 

[unmerged(4990)]

Right next to West Towne

 

[driftwood]

whymc - not really. A few have been discussed, but they never really made much progress. The best idea was for two Gibbon events - if England and Byzantium have poor relations, Gibbon writes the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire as we know it, with Vol. IV-VI devoted to lambasting the morally corrupt Byzantines. If relations are good, he writes a different version, reflecting history more accurately.

Please feel free to share/code your ideas.

driftwood

 

[unmerged(8523)]

hey everybody

hey everybody, i'm new to this forum, so many of the ideas i've come up with myself you have either already done (pretender to the throne), or are already considered inappropiate. anyway, to try and touch up on as many things as possible: i'm greek, so i have the 'what if' disease for byzantium, but i also disable the events i made sometimes to see the porte rise to power. i made an event that elects a new patriarch once in a while - it lowers innovative, and gives a missionary, in addition to increasing relations with other orthodox. i agree with people suggesting that a 'justinian revival' is too much. since this is all ahistorical, it's hard, but i think an evolution of political thought is necessary. my byzantium starts out greek/slavonic, and only adds romanian and serbian provinces as core when these governments are gone. save albania and athens, the catholic balkans are left alone. there's a 'respect your neighbor' thing, so georgia is left alone, and trebizond is given a choice to re-unite, or she can make a new empire if i fall. i know that historically, the byzantines tried to conquer these states, but i think the ottoman conquest would have changed their thinking. with respect to venice, a sack is too much, but i took advantage of the (many) revolts in crete (one of which was very successful pre-euII) to force venice to hand over her greek possesions (save cyprus and corfu, taken by war; they are too important). a coalition against byzantium would be realistic only if she went too far west, as long as she goes east... anyway, the great thing is we can all disagree and make our own events. my byzantium is a great patron; she establishes armenia and cilician armenia (armenia minor) as royal duchies, converts the kurds, and helps georgia and the armenias expand as a bulwark against her enemies in the east. with france and england, she re-establishes the kingdom of jerusalem (an anglo-french state vassal to byzantium, as a balance of power). eventually things will get ugly with russia over who will be the great orthodox power. be careful with the event giving the choice to turn into greece - the old formula was roman = christian, greek = pagan. many greeks call themselves romans to this day. the idea of 'greece' was born in western europe, from scholars of greek descent who romanticized ancient greece. it was the patriarchy's fear of what that would mean that delayed the revolts hundreds of years. (my greece can't revolt until 1721). the formula changed to orthodox = greek, moslem = turk only after the revolution. one last thing about the neo/nea thing: it has nothing to do with infinitives or possessives, it has to do with gender. nea is feminine, or also neuter plural, hence nea athena. in the greek of that time, 'athens' was plural, so it would have been 'neai athenai'. neo is neuter singular, and also the form used for making compound words, regardless of gender; hence, neopatras. the reason you found 'neos' is because all adjectives in greek dictionaries are listed masculine singular.
i appreciate all of your ideas,
stephanos

 

[unmerged(9314)]

For events, I was thinking of a few of these (mostly flavor):

A reconsideration of Galen, in response to Harvey and his contemporaries - perhaps a larger version of the medical profession event.

A scholarly response to Hobbes, in the Byz context, with options to suppress or support the author, support leading to a creation of a university event in a few years.

Some plague events to mirror those lost if the Turks are taken out, perhaps with an option to introduce quarantine - producing revolt/unrest but reducing casualties

Responses to some of the religious events in Russia - the Raskolniki and Peter's messing about with the church.

I love the gibbons idea!


Thoughts?


Constantine: Eeek! Almost suburbia!

 

[unmerged(4990)]

There, listen to Stephanos about the Greek.

And Steph, have you made any events? If so plz do send them my way

bethel608@charter.net


Ack! Suburbia? That's Middleton/Monona!

 

[BYZANTINOS]

I played with EEP 0.1beta is there a 0.2 beta Arround Where Can It be downloaded???

I read the Byzantine Code Thread and I saw a lot of interesting events. However , I haven't seen many of those in the Game and I am in 1700 by now. The Monarcs are very Good but I see no leaders!!!! Not even one!!!! (ok one after a special Event with Zoe) I see no Intrigues!!! Where are all the Byzantine Intrigues , and shady dealings treasons and revolts just for the fun of it...

I believe the events lack a Byzntine Flavor.

Also In my game I expandaded trade (Ghange to PlutoCracy with the -6 Nobility Special Event) and Colonized many Parts of Africa and America. Also due to internal problems of the Spanish Empire I took over Mexico!!!

Are there no events of the Type - He who has X province gets Y effect??? So who ever got mexico gets an effect like Plague -10,000 all Mexican Provinces (Don't forget that the Aztecs were wiped out from flu , and turtured to death of course)

Also I have noticed that in the Game I am playing Hapened 2 unlikely events . One is that Bradenburg took the Place of Prusia. And that the French Catholics when the French!!!

Should they have events like / We have Paris Shall we now Be Called France??? Or Germany is united start the 2nd Reich or something?

I also would like to Mewntion the Matzurian Event that they take China. In the game I was playing China had a land Tech of 16 when the Matzurians ANEXED it , China had a Land tech of 3!!!!!
Well comeone they annexed it should they get some of the Tech?? Like to go to 7-8 ???

Also If any of this are adreesed in later versions of EEP can I have a zip with any of it (especially with the Byzantines leaders)

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by BYZANTINOS
I played with EEP 0.1beta is there a 0.2 beta Arround Where Can It be downloaded???

The EEP v.1.0 can be downloaded here

 

[driftwood]

Byzantios - many of your gripes occur due to the standard 1.05 (? - I haven't check if 1.05 is released yet, I'm playing Tropico instead) events. Manchuria is HEAVILY favored to annex China. Actually, the events are *quite* cool.

As far as a "byzantine" flavor goes ... most of us are more concerned with the historial Byzantine empire than the rather inaccurate Gibbon/Siecle des lumieres revisionist/corrupt version of Byzantine history. All the same, you should have a few opportunities to dump your monarch in favor of another.

If you have any specific suggestions, unique to Byzantum and not the game as a whole, please share them.

driftwood

 

[BYZANTINOS]

As a matter of Fact I have some events for Byzantium the French Catholics and the Aztecs in Mind , the problem is I don't know how to make events... as I am a Rookie yet is there a program I can use or can I write the Idea and if you like it you make the event?
(What about the Byzantine Leaders is there only one?)

 

[driftwood]

Everyone should feel free to post their ideas here. Someone will code them up, if feasible.

whymc - those are all good ideas.

driftwood

 

[unmerged(9314)]

First time coding these things, so there may be some horrible errors in here. These are a few later byz events. Tell me what you think, folks. (They ended up being a bit more than flavor, I fear)

#Galen vs Harvey
event = {
id = 90300
random = NO
country = BYZ
name = "Galen versus Harvey"
desc = "Galen, the greatest figure in old Byzantine medicine, was a truly remarkable man, whose investigations did much to further the practice of medicine, particularly surgery and pharmacy. There were, however, serious flaws in his work, one of the most notable being his misunderstanding of how blood circulated in the body. Although not entirely modern in their approach to medicine, Harvey and his followers had, by this time, raised serious questions about Galen's theories. Scholars and healers in the Empire were forced to decide whether to preserve the status quo, or reform the medical profession."
date = {day = 1 month = january year = 1650}
offset = 360
style = 3

action_a = { #Medical reform
name = "Encourage medical reform throughout the empire"
command = {type = provincemanpower which = -1 value = 1}
command = {type = provincemanpower which = -1 value = 1}
command = {type = population which = -2 value = 5000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = 2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = 2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = 2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = 1000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = 1000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = 1000}
command = {type = stability value = -2}
command = {type = sleepevent which = 90301}
}

action_b = { #status quo
name = "Preserve the Galenic tradition"
command = {type = stability value = 1}
command = {type = innovative value = -1}
}
}

#Plague for Byzantium
event = {
id = 90301
random = NO
country = BYZ
name = "The great plague"
desc = "In the last years of the 17th century, a great plague swept across the Byzantine empire. As citizens and soldiers alike fell victim to disease, the government was forced to decide whether or not to impose strict but unpopular quarantine measures to limit the damage."
date = {day=1 month = january year = 1690}
offset = 720
style = 3

action_a = {#draconian measures
name = "Implement draconian measures for the public good"
command = {type = stability value = -1}
command = {type = domestic which = centralization value = 1}
command = {type = revoltrisk which = 24 value 5}
command = {type = population which = -2 value = -2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -1000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -1000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -1000}
}

action_b = {#hope for the best
name = "Pray that the plague will end, but do nothing"
command = {type = population which = -2 value = -10000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -5000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -2000}
command = {type = population which = -1 value = -2000}
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
}
}


#Byzantine enlightenment
event = {
id = 90305
trigger={ exists = FRA
domestic = {type = innovative = 6}
}

random = NO
country = BYZ
name = "A Byzantine Philosophe"
desc = "By 1760, the ideas of Voltaire and other French thinkers had circulated widely within the Emprie, and sparked much debate among scholars. One of the most significant writers of the period was Thomas Mourtzuphlos, the second son of an impoverished merchant. His first work, 'Reflections on Manzikert', was an inspired piece of social analysis, thinly disquised as ancient history. His insightful critique of the Empire's social order had revolutionary potential, and the government was forced to step in to decide his fate."
date = {day = 1 month = january year = 1760}
offset = 360
style = 4

action_a = { #support him
name = "His ideas have merit, and we can use them to aid reform"
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1}
command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = -1}
command = { type = infra value = 500}
command = { type = stability value = -2}
}

action_b = { #ignore him
name = "He is harmless, we will let him publish his book"
command = {type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1}
command = {type = stability value = -1}
}

action_c = { #repress him
name = "His ideas could be dangerous, so we shall imprison him"
command = {type = domestic which = innovative value = -1}
command = {type = stability value = 1}
command = {type = sleepevent which = 90306}
}
}

#The Mourtzuphlos academy
event ={
id = 90306
trigger = { domestic = {type = innovative value = 7}
random = NO
country = BYZ
name = "A new University"
desc = "Thomas Mourtzuphlos became an immensely influential figure in the intellectual life of the Byzantine Empire after the publication of 'Reflections on Manzikert'. A group of bright young people gathered around him, and discussed in earnest the social structure of the empire. They drafted a proposal for a new university, with the intent of spreading education throughout all social classes in the Empire."
date = {day = 1 month = January year = 1765}
offset = 360
style = 4

action_a = { #create, focus on science
name = "Create the University, focus on science"
command = {type = treasury value = -500}
command = {type = domestic which = innovative value = 1}
command = {type = domestic which = infra value = 2000}
}

action_b = { #create, focus on statecraft
name = "Create the University, focus on statecraft"
command = {type = treasury value = -500}
command = {type = provincetax which = -1 value = 2 }
command = {type = provincetax which = -1 value = 2 }
command = {type = provincetax which = -1 value = 2 }
command = {type = provincetax which = -1 value = 2 }
command = {type = domestic which = centralization value = 1}
command = {type = diplomats value = 6 }
}

action_c = { #fund the church instead
name = "Create a religious university instead"
command = {type = treasury value = -500}
command = {type = missionaries value = 6}
command = {type = domestic which = innovative value = -1}
command = {type = converstion which = -1}
command = {type = converstion which = -1}
command = {type = converstion which = -1}
}

action_d = { #learning? we don't need no stinking learning
name = "We cannot afford and do not need a university"
command = {type = treasury value = 150}
command = {type = domestic which = innovative value = -1}
}
}

 

[Jayavarman]

whymc, stability should probably go all the way down along with a massive revolt risk for your first event. Remember, the Empire was intensely religious and was built on the pillars of Christianity. There was a doctor in Byzantine history that said that if peasant/worker quarters were not so tight, cramped, and let in some light and air, they would not die so young and easily. He was excommunicated as a heretic or something like that. Everyone believed that everything happened according to the will of God. Thus, if you got sick, it was because you were bad. Letting go of these traditions and beliefs would not be as easy as the event makes them. You're attacking the people's religion, and they hold dearly to these. Why do you think the two Churches never reunited. The yes/no could not come from the top where the Emperor was. It was the people who decided.

 

[Jayavarman]

Can you give some information on Thomas Mourtzuphlos and his "Reflections on Manzikert?"

 

[driftwood]

At various times, Byzantium showed itself to be more and less willing to innovate, though always cloaking itself in the verbiage of tradition. So abandoning Galen - assuming anyone still had an extant text of his by the 17th century - wouldn't necessarily require -6 stab or something equally radical. Especially if pressure for change percolated up from the bottom, it could have been a non-issue.

whymc - those events all look very good. On the plague, maybe you should either give a silver lining to not quarantining your peasants (-2 serfdom?) or hide the consequences somewhat (if you're praying for the best, you shouldn't know what the outcome would be). If you choose the latter, it would be fairly simple to trigger another event a year later with the population losses.

driftwood

 

[Jayavarman]

Originally posted by driftwood
At various times, Byzantium showed itself to be more and less willing to innovate, though always cloaking itself in the verbiage of tradition. So abandoning Galen - assuming anyone still had an extant text of his by the 17th century - wouldn't necessarily require -6 stab or something equally radical. Especially if pressure for change percolated up from the bottom, it could have been a non-issue.

driftwood

I meant great loss of stability for ACCEPTING Galen. My whole post was on why ACCEPTING him would be so tumultuous to Byzantine society.

 

[unmerged(9314)]

I don't want to be too much of a geek about this, but what got me thinking of the medical event in the first place was that Harvey's big enemies were all pretty strong advocates of Galenic medicine - they still had and relied heavily on his texts in the 17th c.

I figured that, since even autocratic Russia had Radishchev around 1800, it wouldn't be too far-fetched for Byzantium to have a social critic, so I made one up. It seemed to me that talking about what went wrong at Manzikert might have been a good way to criticize social relations in the present.

I like the idea of hiding the consequences of praying for the best in the event of plague - I'll code another event for that. I think that this is already the gentler of the two options, so I'd rather not throw in a silver lining - could make it a bit less brutal, though, I suppose.

 

[driftwood]

Originally posted by Phillip V


I meant great loss of stability for ACCEPTING Galen. My whole post was on why ACCEPTING him would be so tumultuous to Byzantine society.

Sorry, I missed that. Byzantine society, like all post-classical societies that were still aware of Galen, had accepted him since the 3rd century.

When I referred to an extant text, I was referencing the fact that Byzantine scholars enjoyed making brief digest compendia of classical authors and adding their commentary, rather than transmitting the original text intact.

whymc, I think you captured the tone of an 18th century reformer very well with the "Reflections on Manzikert". That's certainly how a reformer, at least one who valued his continued health, would have done it.

driftwood

 

[flyting]

i was thinking about the cb you'll get for having rome not being the pope, as een cathlic country, if the united churches become orthodox, which means no more catholic, you'll have no more catholic countries which get that cb, so the problem would be solved

 

[BYZANTINOS]

Praises

Wymick has posted the best events I have seen , I was about to complain that after 1650 there are not many Byzantine events I would be very happy to 1or2 per 50 years . Also I would like to suggest an event that reduces the churches influence.

As Leon the 3rd had done in the battle for religious paintings , he had recruited most monks (as monks could not be recruited then) burned some churches and took their lands and riches. It is logical that a Religious revolt would happen.
Most probably choosing to be as radical as leon the 3rd would have extreme consequances Something like -3 Stab +5 Rev an some automatic Revolts plus defections. And could give a +2 inove and +1 Centr. Plus 500-1000 dinars. +1 Stability +100-500 dinars church bonus -1 innove -1 Centr if you went with the Church.(plus maybe one or auto revolts in dissatisfied provinces as smerna most probabluy major free trade province and Cyprus)

I would like a Comment this event would be nice around 1680 and could have a triger of having a +5 free subjects (able to voice discontent with the churc) and in the same time a 0 inovetiveness or below ) there would be pressure from the citizens to reduce churches rights.

Other events that would be nice to be included would be events involving the future Neighbors of the Empire.

I have not though of any yet but my important Neighboring Countries are : Huge AustriaHungary , Russia , the Mameluks and Persia are any of you have the same Major Neigbours most of the time? ( also minor neigbors Astrahan , Ukraine ,Moldova and across the sea Sicely and Napoli)

3rdly I would like 5to Mention that Byzantium is probable to have followed the Greek tendency to migrate an colonize (the ancient Greeks has colonies as far a Gibraltar ) Some say they even went to america!!! (unlikely) Nevertheless , they were daring captains and explorers it would be nice to see some especially after 1650
and also some events regarding Colinization. Most probable colonies seem North West shore of Africa and minor left overs of America.

I would be hapy to research the matter further for any of the above ...