EEP 1.1 Readme, bugs and suggestions

[unmerged(7564)]

In these events in the eep_bur, shouldn't the commands regarding HOL in options A and B, be for U10, not HOL?

Otherwise, I don't think they would work as intended.

#The Treaty of Delft # 
event = { 
	id = 88004
	random = no 
	country = BUR 
	name = "The Treaty of Delft" 
	desc = "In 1428 Jan VI died. Jacqueline was now fully the Countess of Holland and free of her uncle.   Unfortunately she was also a captive of Philip III of Burgundy in Ghent.  Philip wished to avenge the indignity she caused his cousin John IV of Brabant.  She escaped but submitted after a struggle. The treaty of Delft recognized her as nominal countess and Philip as her administrator and heir." 
	style = 1 

	date = { day = 11 month = april year = 1428 } 
	offset = 0 
	deathdate = { day = 12 month = april year = 1428 } 

	action_a ={ #Force her to capitulate# 
		name = "Force her into subservience." 
		command = { type = vassal which = HOL } 
		} 

	action_b ={ #Imprison her# 
		name = "Imprison her, and take Holland for yourself." 
		command = { type = addcore which = 339 } 
		command = { type = addcore which = 340 } 
		command = { type = inherit which = HOL } 
		} 

	action_c ={ #Let her go# 
		name = "Ransom her for money." 
		command = { type = relation which = U10 value = 75 } 
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 88005 } 
		command = { type = treasury value = 200 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 88013 } 
		} 
}

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Annibale
The largest additions seem to be French provinces like Maine, Poitou, Normandy, Armor, Bretagne, Limousin, etc. -Seems a little overboard to me...
In combo with the Lotharingia CB shields, I have to say that is waay overboard.

Why on earth do Burgundy have CB on Normandy and Bretagne?

 

[unmerged(7564)]

Anyone care to comment on whether or not a Russian change to the latin technology group is justified? In ANY option, much less all three. I personally think not...

#Peter the Great and the Army Reform#
event = {

	id = 40067
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME3423"
	desc = "EVENTHIST3423"
	style = 3

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1700 }
	offset = 600
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1703 }

	action_a ={				#Reform the Army and Navy#
		name = "ACTIONNAME3423A"
		command = { type = DIP which = 1 value = 240 }
		command = { type = ADM which = 1 value = 240 }
		command = { type = MIL which = 3 value = 240 }
		command = { type = land value = 1500 }
		command = { type = naval value = 1000 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = OFFENSIVE value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = 2 }
		command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons }
		command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = navalequipment }
		command = { type = INF which = -2 value = 20000 }
		command = { type = CAV which = -2 value = 10000 }
		command = { type = ART which = -2 value = 30 }
		command = { type = manpower value = 20 }
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = 2 }
		command = { type = technology which = latin }
	}

	action_b ={				#Only Reform Army#
		name = "ACTIONNAME3423B"
		command = { type = land value = 2000 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = OFFENSIVE value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = 2 }
		command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons }
		command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons }
		command = { type = gainbuilding which = -1 value = barrack }
		command = { type = INF which = -2 value = 20000 }
		command = { type = CAV which = -2 value = 10000 }
		command = { type = ART which = -2 value = 20 }
		command = { type = INF which = -1 value = 20000 }
		command = { type = CAV which = -3 value = 10000 }
		command = { type = ART which = -3 value = 20 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = 2 }
		command = { type = technology which = latin }
	}

	action_c ={				#Only Reform Navy#
		name = "ACTIONNAME3423C"
		command = { type = naval value = 2000 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = MERCANTILISM value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = -3 }
		command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = navalequipment }
		command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = navalequipment }
		command = { type = gainbuilding which = -1 value = shipyard }
		command = { type = warships which = -1 value = 30 }
		command = { type = transports which = -3 value = 10 }
		command = { type = galleys which = -1 value = 50 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = 2 }
		command = { type = technology which = latin }
	}

}

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Annibale
Anyone care to comment on whether or not a Russian change to the latin technology group is justified? In ANY option, much less all three. I personally think not...

I don't think so either. Russia gets much to powerful as it is, with it's many CB shields and cultures.

 

[Jayavarman]

The 18th century saw Russia grow in power. I think it's perfectly justified. It's how they started wipping around the Ottomans historically. We need Russia to catch up to the latin west. But then again, if it is unbalancing....

 

[Solmyr]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
Peasant War - This coupled with some other high serfdom revolt events makes going to serfdom a very bad choice. I understand that high serfdom should cause more revolts, but I count three negative serfdom events already, and I'm not even through looking this over yet. Completely unbalances this slider setting.

I would almost argue that having free subjects should cause revolts, since your newly freed people may get some republican ideas

Originally posted by Captain Krunch

Heart over State - What if I don't have 50 ducats at that moment? I would like to see a choice b with a stability drop or something, so I don't necessarily have to take a loan.

Seasonal Flooding - forces me to pay 25 gold, which I may not have. I would like to see a choice b with greater negative effects, if I don't have the money.

FWIW, there's at least one event in the standard GC (End of a Great Feud) that also forces you to pay 50 ducats no matter what.
And of course, the ever-favorite Corruption event (pay 100 gold and -1 stability, or suffer 10 percent inflation... I know I'll take a forced loan before inflation every time).

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Solmyr
And of course, the ever-favorite Corruption event (pay 100 gold and -1 stability, or suffer 10 percent inflation... I know I'll take a forced loan before inflation every time).

I'd take a loan too, except when I am playing a country which is too poor to pay it back anyway... If you can't pay the loan back, you go bankrupt and get even more inflation (30% as opposed to the 10% in the other choice).

 

[unmerged(6159)]

A few comments on some of the detailed stuff.

I want to thank Max for the details he's posted here. I'm not sure how they should be used, given that he's chosen a bunch of changes, but the results are very interesting and need to be considered in further revs.

Annibale's observations are good - I'd like to make sure we don't lose sight of the BUG in the Burgundy file - HOL to U10. An easy fix. On the Burgundyy events - if the Lotharingia event is ever toned down the way Aniibale is suggedting I's suggest removing my 'response' events, or at least reducing the whopping great hordes of cavalry I had appear to keep Burgundy in check. I suggested these events to try to prevent a mega Burgundy, which wa a problem in Paradox 1.04 anyway.

The Peter the Great event switching to Latin is a Paradox event. As such it has been tested pretty seriously and I'd imagine it's there for a reason. I'd be leary of changing them because they would HAVE to change the balance somewhat. I admit that they proably mess up the 1700 scenario more than the GC, but I think caution is in order for such a big change.

Finally, if there is anyone out there who thinks that the Paradox serfdom slider is balanced for a country with 10 or more provinces they are well and truly kidding themselves. The stability bonus so massively outweighs the morale loss that it's ridiculous. I firmly believe that this is one area where the Paradox version needs tweaking, to make free subject slightly attractive, and I really like random events that address this. To me it's one of the best effects of the EEP.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Originally posted by Solmyr

And of course, the ever-favorite Corruption event (pay 100 gold and -1 stability, or suffer 10 percent inflation... I know I'll take a forced loan before inflation every time).

But the AI should never do that. Almost all (AI) countries recover stability in no time at all, and their inflation goes away in a few years (unless they have lower inflation than the humans). Let's help the AI, not hurt it.

 

[unmerged(7564)]

Originally posted by Phillip V
The 18th century saw Russia grow in power. I think it's perfectly justified. It's how they started wipping around the Ottomans historically. We need Russia to catch up to the latin west. But then again, if it is unbalancing....

From everything I have ever read regarding Russian history/technology, it is unrealistic to have them on par with the latin west. I don't think they deserve latin tech group, or if you must have it, remove after the death of Peter the Great. Just my opinion.

Additionally, I was wondering if anyone more familiar with Russian history would care to comment on the increased number of CB shields available to the Russians in the eep. It was my understanding the eep was generally against awarding additional CB shields. (Unless of course you are Burgundy, England, Russia, or Atjeh )

 

[Jayavarman]

Originally posted by Annibale


From everything I have ever read regarding Russian history/technology, it is unrealistic to have them on par with the latin west. I don't think they deserve latin tech group, or if you must have it, remove after the death of Peter the Great. Just my opinion.

It is not unrealistic to have them on par in beginning of 18th century. Otherwise, they would get whooped by the West, and that did not happen until the Crimean War.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

And they might not beat up the Turks so badly/often in the 18th century. Which they certainly did.

 

[suo]

with penalties to trade and production that are included properly high serfdom is no longer that necessary.
With the bonus-income you can invest a lot more into research- and if it is necessary relocate it to stability.
And you can use the stability bonus to go quantity or naval.

 

[suo]

ehem. the moral bonus...

 

[unmerged(6159)]

My understanding is there is no trade bonus/penalty. According to the FAQ it's +- 10% to production efficiency, +-50% to stability, +-2 d to infantry cost and +-.25 morale.

10% bonus to production efficiency is rarely if ever going to be worth paying double for stability increases. In round numbers, reallocating an additional 10% of production income (something like 3% of total income?) only works out to your benefit if less than 5% of your income on stability increases throughout the game.

The morale definitely has an effect in 1419, but much less of one by land tech 10 or so, because morale goes up so quickly. And stability affects morale too. I don't know how much, but I suspect that +.5 morale isn't doing more than a few levels of stability.

 

[suo]

You are right. I did not look up the Serfdom-slider detailled enuff.

 

[unmerged(7564)]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
And they might not beat up the Turks so badly/often in the 18th century. Which they certainly did.

I just don't recall anywhere that I've read about the Russians, or any 'orthodox' area being technologically on par with the 'west' during the time frame of the game (and further as well). That is a separate matter from who beat up who. The Russians still have leaders and CB shields...

Question: Is orthodox tech group superior or inferior to Muslim? I just can't remember...

If orthodox is superior-leave it alone-one time army reform events, or periodic army reform events should do the trick, and there is no reason to boost their tech ahistorically high across the board.

If Muslim is superior-that may be a reason for the switch to latin group (or temporary switch, which I would prefer if this has to be part of the eep).

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Orthodox is faster than muslim. But the Ottomans are orthodox, not muslim. What you're proposing is a very big change. It has to change the balance of play from 1700-1820. Unless you're seeing AI behaviour in the late game that demonstrates there's a problem here (and I don't see how the AI could do better than Russia actually did 1700-1820 without conquering most of Europe) I really think it's best to let this one go. If it is going to be changed I think that it needs to be tested extensively - I don't think Paradox left it in there without some idea from beta tests of what the effect would be.

 

[unmerged(7564)]

I am not proposing a change, I am proposing going back to the old/ non-eep version of an event. I'm sorry, I was not clear about that...

The EEP version of Peter the Great's military reforms changes Russian tech group to latin.

The original paradox event does NOT change tech group to Latin.

I want to know if there is a good reason for this change. I do not personally think so. As you said, it is a major change that should have been tested extensively & so on...

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Woops. I hadn't checked, that one had been in there for a while. You are, of course, 100% correct about this issue. It ought to go.