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Henry V

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I think this game is probably the best that Paradox (or anyone else) has ever produced because you actually learn something useful from playing it. I don't have TIME to play many computer games but I'm addicted to EU II, perhaps because European history was one of my favorite high school courses. It even prompted me to take out and read the textbook I used in that course LONG ago.

EU II is not only like a history book (until you change history so it no longer follows its original course), it simulates the economic, geopolitical, and social driving forces that made things happen the way it did. Its potential as a high school and college teaching tool is far underutilized and EU III provides a perfect opportunity to change this.

Even something as horrific as the Spanish Inquisition becomes understandable, if not acceptable by modern standards, when the player has to implement it to convert the southern Iberian provinces to Catholicism. The Shiite vs. Sunni automatic casus belli shows why people are killing each other in Iraq right now, while the Mughal Empire and Delhi (Sunni) should tell us why Pakistan and India don't get along today.

Meanwhile, the "Empire: Considerable Assembly Required" aspect of France, Spain, and Russia is enormously educational. The first time I tried Muscovy or Novgorod, I discovered not only that "Russia" consisted of five or six different countries, they also hated each other! The same for France, in which the France of 1419 is the mortal enemy of Burgundy. What are now Belgium and France were once the Duchy of Burgundy, and so on. The Treaty of Tordesillas is meanwhile recognizable to anyone who has read or seen James Clavell's Shogun, in which John Blackthorne tells Lord Toranaga that the Portuguese have the "right" to conquer his country.

Here are a few pointers for bringing its educational power to a level that could in fact get teachers and professors to require their students to play it.

(1) Clicking on a monarch (yours or someone else's) should bring up a biography. The same for military leaders. The option could even be extended to provinces, where clicking on an icon could bring up the history of that region. As an example, Lebanon's "naval supplies" are of course the country's famous cedar trees that were sought after by shipbuilders from the time of Gilgamesh. The "furs" from the Everglades (Southern Florida) have to be alligator skins, and so on.

(2) When you have to make a historical choice, such as the Ottoman Empire's decision as to whether to implement the Sheikh-al-Islam office, you should then be told what the country actually did in real history. I always reject the Sheikh-al-Islam but (as shown by a later event) it seems that the Ottoman Empire implemented it.

(3) Identify fabricated events as such. As an example, I often find myself in possession of the Netherlands and I get the Duke of So-and-So (depending on my country) and the Edict of Blood. Now I know that England's Duke of York was never involved in the Edict of Blood but this could confuse someone who doesn't know that it was actually the Spanish who were involved. I like the way you handle the situation in which the player chooses to make the Yorkists rulers of England during the Wars of the Roses, though; Richard III wins the Battle of Bosworth (again, this should be identified as a fabricated event based on the player's decision versus actual history) and agrees to leave the kingdom to Henry VII. (The game does identify fabricated leaders with a *.)
 

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Not that i disagree with your three points, although #2 is already somewhat implemented. But i think that playing the educational card too much would hurt sales.
 

Owl

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Registered said:
Not that i disagree with your three points, although #2 is already somewhat implemented. But i think that playing the educational card too much would hurt sales.
Yes - the points are good, but marketing a game as eduactional is a bit like marketing a new whisky as 'low alcohol'.
 

Jayavarman

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Owl said:
Yes - the points are good, but marketing a game as eduactional is a bit like marketing a new whisky as 'low alcohol'.
Marketing such an educational game should be more "behind-the-scenes". Copies should be sent to affluent history professors and important education people or something.
 

Owl

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Jayavarman said:
Marketing such an educational game should be more "behind-the-scenes". Copies should be sent to affluent history professors and important education people or something.
Affluent history professors? :confused:
Oh - did you mean influential?

(Affluent just means "rich")
 

Carmagnola

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Great ideas, and they are in a direction Paradox has already been going, with the Country profile at startup, for example. Btw, thanks for solving the puzzling effect of seeing furs in Florida for me: obvious once you know!

This would also contribute to improving the game in another way. So much historical research goes into making this game, and sometimes tough decisions have to be made about an item that cannot but leave someone discontented (as seen from forum posts). This would allow to provide a rationale for such decisions.

On the marketing side, think of a game that would allow you to tell your parents (or spouse, for that matter): "I'm not wasting time! I'm studying here, OK?" :)
 

unmerged(11600)

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Carmagnola said:
On the marketing side, think of a game that would allow you to tell your parents (or spouse, for that matter): "I'm not wasting time! I'm studying here, OK?" :)
I can just see the TV ads now:
The Scene: an electronics store
Cast of Characters: a set of parents with their teenage son and daughter
One of the kids picks up a copy of some computer game "Can we get this one?" "No, kids, you already spend too much time on computer games." The other child picks up a copy of EU3 "How about this one?" "What did I just tell you?!" "Aw, but mom, it's, um, {kids exchange knowing looks} educational!"


Lets parents know that it's educational, while letting the kids think they're being sly. :D

-Pat
 

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Owl said:
Affluent history professors? :confused:
Oh - did you mean influential?

(Affluent just means "rich")
Influence leads to affluence :D
 

unmerged(5145)

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I like the concept, but remember that the more on-screen text is involved, the more text has to be translated into various languages for the different international versions of the game. This gets expensive.

It might be sufficient for the developers to simply add a few biographies/leader or monarch portraits/country backgrounds/etc., but make it possible for the modding community to add more.
 

TheLand

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spikebrennan said:
I like the concept, but remember that the more on-screen text is involved, the more text has to be translated into various languages for the different international versions of the game. This gets expensive.

It might be sufficient for the developers to simply add a few biographies/leader or monarch portraits/country backgrounds/etc., but make it possible for the modding community to add more.

I'm also a bit concerned about EU ingame text going the way of Civlization's - a rather half-baked attempt to summarise various historical things.

Personally I'd prefer the game had click-through links to Wikipedia articles on the relevant subjects ;-)
 

unmerged(47118)

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spikebrennan said:
I like the concept, but remember that the more on-screen text is involved, the more text has to be translated into various languages for the different international versions of the game. This gets expensive.
Don't worry I would do it for free :D
 

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Another aspect of this game that I'm surprised that people have forgotten to mention:

How long does one typically play this game?
a normal sitting can last anywhere from 1-10 hours :cool:.

And, besides all the other educational stuff...
you're STARING at a map for hours at a time!

This alone helps you to absorb something. Anything at all. Cities, regions, rivers, mountains. Further examination would reveal that certain cities were more important than others in a certain period of time. This gets even more apparent if one plays more than one paradox game, and sees how province importance will shift.
 

Mazyrian

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I think something like the encyclopedia from Civ series would be great for this
 

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AKjeldsen said:
Rarely for history professors. ;)
True true, but they are not always that influential.
Writers now, they can, potentially, rake in tons of cash, especially when universities start using your books (bloody rip offs).
 

Jayavarman

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Carmagnola said:
Great ideas, and they are in a direction Paradox has already been going, with the Country profile at startup
One should also know there is a code line in the EU II leader files for "remarks". Perhaps an unimplemented feature? ;)
 

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If EU3 suits college education, then it's not a good situation. Either it will make the game to be more complex than I like my games, or then the colleges need to severely dumb down. Loose-loose if you ask me:)