Education, Education, Education!

[aniuby]

Hi all, I'd like to ask for help on the best way to educate heirs.

Basically, I know that a child is likely to gain stats and the education trait based on the attributes of their educator, and being the educator yourself allows you to determine the traits that the child receives. That's why I always ask to be the educator of my heir (or my heir's future heir).

However, what I realise is that my dynasty is now essentially trapped in a spiral of decline as a result of the dice basically not rolling my way. I had a long run of Midas Touched kings who had the bad luck one day of educating a heir which is the next rank lower. When that king became the educator, the child he educated adopted his rank or became the next rank lower, until eventually my kings turned out to be Indulgent Wastrels educating the next generation of Indulgent Wastrels. Idiocracy in action.

What's the best way of breaking out of this spiral of decline? I could just ask one of my courtiers to do the educating, but I'm absolutely terrified that the heirs will get saddled with really stupid good-for-nothing traits like Arbitrary, Slothful, Craven, Gluttunous ... the works, because the computer doesn't realise (or care) that you're trying to create someone good rather than destroy them. Alternatively, I tried switching out the educator at a certain point in the child's life, but testing with random courtiers' kids gave really mixed results - sometimes they got a completely different education trait from my king or their new educator.

I don't save/reload when it comes to creating kids, so I'm not all that bitter (maybe a bit miffed) as to why the brides I handpick never pass on their Genius traits while practically every wretch the wilful heirs decide to wed passes on their shortness, lisping, syphilis, and so on. Eventually I manage to breed it out. But my control-freak nature when it comes to education has trapped my dynasty in a spiral of mediocrity. So ... any ideas?

By the way, my mini-house rules are no save/reloading regarding kids and education, no kinslaying, and preferably not sticking kids in bishoprics - they tend to run out after a while (both the kids and the bishoprics). Succession laws are primogeniture only.

 

[Malvius]

I tend to switch the education of my heir to a Midas Touched/Grey Eminence some days before they turn 16

 

[The_Blind_One]

I suffered from the exact same problem.

Hashi I was a brilliant ruler, Hashi II was a great ruler. Abdul-??? was a good ruler, Muhammed would have been a magnificent ruler if he hadn't died of some freak accident at age 15...Now Hashi III is ruler but he's only mediocre and so are all his heirs...

I should really pay more attention to the education of my potential heirs rather than just the main line I picked, but I already utilized the best teachers for every heir. I have to make sure that all those muslim sons get good education because I don't want to land them any/too much land and instead have to use them as councillors or suffer major decadence increases. Second problem is that at game start...there is almost no one you can decently invite...specialy not as muslims. Probably even worse for some cultures/religions.

 

[Beagá]

Hi all, I'd like to ask for help on the best way to educate heirs.

Basically, I know that a child is likely to gain stats and the education trait based on the attributes of their educator, and being the educator yourself allows you to determine the traits that the child receives. That's why I always ask to be the educator of my heir (or my heir's future heir).

That approach is bad.

It´s better to have an AI educator that has a chance to counter bad trait acquisition than using the random events that happens when you are the educator. Unless your traits are very good.

 

[Sir Tornado]

I tend to switch the education of my heir to a Midas Touched/Grey Eminence some days before they turn 16

This...

My characters tend to be GEs... my oldest sons are also usually GEs, but my daughters and younger sons are Midas Touched and Brilliant Strategeists respectively. I still educate as many of them as I can, but switch them over just before they turn 16, giving me control over both their traits and their education.

 

[barny]

That approach is bad.

It´s better to have an AI educator that has a chance to counter bad trait acquisition than using the random events that happens when you are the educator. Unless your traits are very good.

You normally can always avoid bad traits as long, as your character isn't a complete moron and I would always recommend to educate your heirs yourself. Switching them off to someone with a better education at the end is a good idea, if your king doesn't have a high education level (like midas touched or grey eminence) himself.

But giving your heir to someone else is always like Russian Roulette.

 

[Alyiakal]

You normally can always avoid bad traits as long, as your character isn't a complete moron and I would always recommend to educate your heirs yourself. Switching them of to someone with a better education at the end is a good idea, if your king doesn't have a high education level (like midas touched or grey eminence himself).

But giving your heir to someone else is always like Russian Roulette.

Yeah. I would second not handing off your heir to anyone else. The trait giving events have options where, even if you don't get a good trait, you have a very high chance of having the bad trait removed (or 100% removal chance if you beat it out of them). So you can pretty much keep your characters red-free (except for maybe proud if that's your sort of thing; I find prestige rolls in a lot easier than piety, so yeah...).

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Yeah. I would second not handing off your heir to anyone else. The trait giving events have options where, even if you don't get a good trait, you have a very high chance of having the bad trait removed (or 100% removal chance if you beat it out of them). So you can pretty much keep your characters red-free (except for maybe proud if that's your sort of thing; I find prestige rolls in a lot easier than piety, so yeah...).

Keeping characters "red-free" never works out for me. I suppress all the bad traits during their education, but then they get tons of bad traits as soon as I let them have a county or so somewhere.

I think it's because they end up having too few traits, if you try the "red-free" education, and the game keeps throwing them random events that add some.

Better to let them develop their character, than to suppress everything. They are going to get a character one way or another anyways...

 

[Sir Tornado]

Keeping characters "red-free" never works out for me. I suppress all the bad traits during their education, but then they get tons of bad traits as soon as I let them have a county or so somewhere.

I think it's because they end up having too few traits, if you try the "red-free" education, and the game keeps throwing them random events that add some.

Better to let them develop their character, than to suppress everything. They are going to get a character one way or another anyways...

I am a control freak, so I don't let them have a county of their own... that way, I am always in control of all my PC at all times, ensuring they have only green traits + gregarious/brave/just/zealous if I can manage to swing them...

I like to combine that with GE, which means you end up with a ruler who is loved by all and has amazing diplomatic skill to make others not hate him too much...

I am a bit divided on ambitious trait... it gives you a good boost, but ambitious vassals end up hating you even more...

 

[noobermenschen]

But giving your heir to someone else is always like Russian Roulette.

Concur. I once noticed my 13 year old granddaughter with the lustful trait - there's one Bishop who would have gone to the obliette if I could have gotten my hands on him...

 

[Blond_Knight]

I like to educate my children to be soldiers (especially now that the last patch made it possible for females to lead armies).

 

[Pinstar]

Ok, I've got a question. I just had my Dax game go completely to hell because I've been spreading occitain culture rulers all over my kingdom, and then I take over as an excommunicated Castillian culture guy.

I'm ruler A (occitain) Ruler B is his son. (Also Occitain)
I notice Castille is being ruled by a 20 year old queen with NO children or husband.

I marry Ruler B to the queen...so that their children will not only get my titles, but the kingodm of Castille (I was playing as Aquitaine, so the lands were nice and close).

By the time I take over as Ruler B, Ruler C (The son between ruler B and the Queen) is already full grown....and of Castillian culture. I take over as him and the whole kingdom tears itself apart due to him being a -20 foreigner to literally every single vassal in the realm. (Combined with the -20 short reign, the arbitrary trait and low diplomacy)

Is there any way I could have controlled the mentoring of their child? (Ruler B moved out of my court when he got married to the queen, since she was landed and he wasn't)

 

[barny]

Not that I would know. I had similar problems in two games. Once I (king of France) married my heir to the daughter of a Scottish Duke (she had nice stats), but he and his son must have died and suddenly she was the Duchess and my heir moved to Scotland with her. Their son (my grandson) than actually conquered the kingdom of Scotland without me doing anything and so I ended up with a Scottish King of France and Scotland and it took me like two generations until I was lucky enough to get one of my sons turned to Frankish culture again.

In another game, in which I played a very old King of Scotland, I had married my heir to the Duchess of Munster to inherit the last parts of Ireland. In the end, I just killed every one of this branch of the family (four great grandsons, one granddaughter and one grandson) to "inherit" Munster with my old king, not caring for the kinslayer trait, since he would die soon anyway and had a very good second son as new heir.

So I don't know, maybe I'm doing something wrong, but letting your son marry anyone outside the realm, is hardly worth the following trouble in my opinion. As long, as you're not allowed, to educate your grandson, it can ruin your dynasty for generations. Even if you're king in realm A and you're wife is queen in realm B, if the children were born in her realm, you're not allowed to educate YOUR OWN CHILDREN. This is a huge problem, that paradox still hasn't fixed. They could simply ad an "(grand)father ++++" bonus, to the "would be hostage in a foreign realm ----" modification, but for now, you just shouldn't do it.

 

[icon41gimp]

Why should the queen, and more importantly her court, allow you to take their future king out of their country?

 

[Mutineer]

I tend to do realm whide genetic program, but with special empacyc on all my extended famaly. Meaning, I try to marry couriers to any genious/strong et. characters possible. Lacking that, I try to marry them to best stats characters of opposite sex.
then I land them, this keeping them in my court and letting them breed. Any extended famaly and my own I try to educate to best character, mostly loooking on stats. meaning, max Sum(all stats) with special attention to key start I want to cultivate.
I have good results with that, getting +20 key stats kings which do not ahve any special trats. And they tend to have disent other stats.

Basically, create bigger pool of best educators. Educate at best teacher.

 

[Alyiakal]

Ok, I've got a question. I just had my Dax game go completely to hell because I've been spreading occitain culture rulers all over my kingdom, and then I take over as an excommunicated Castillian culture guy.

I'm ruler A (occitain) Ruler B is his son. (Also Occitain)
I notice Castille is being ruled by a 20 year old queen with NO children or husband.

I marry Ruler B to the queen...so that their children will not only get my titles, but the kingodm of Castille (I was playing as Aquitaine, so the lands were nice and close).

By the time I take over as Ruler B, Ruler C (The son between ruler B and the Queen) is already full grown....and of Castillian culture. I take over as him and the whole kingdom tears itself apart due to him being a -20 foreigner to literally every single vassal in the realm. (Combined with the -20 short reign, the arbitrary trait and low diplomacy)

Is there any way I could have controlled the mentoring of their child? (Ruler B moved out of my court when he got married to the queen, since she was landed and he wasn't)

What you want to do basically is to land your son (ruler B I guess), before marrying him to the Queen of Castille. That way they will maintain separate courts. More importantly, the children of the union will go to the court of their primary parent (which is determined by the type of marriage they are in). Since your son is still a noble in your realm, you will be able to request to educate the children (and not be refused for the reason of "child would be hostage of foreign power").

 

[Mutineer]

What you want to do basically is to land your son (ruler B I guess), before marrying him to the Queen of Castille. That way they will maintain separate courts. More importantly, the children of the union will go to the court of their primary parent (which is determined by the type of marriage they are in). Since your son is still a noble in your realm, you will be able to request to educate the children (and not be refused for the reason of "child would be hostage of foreign power").

well does not work this way, as you CAN not marry your son after landing him.

 

[Kimberly]

well does not work this way, as you CAN not marry your son after landing him.

But you can betroth him as a child, and then land him! He is likely to follow through on the betrothal once he comes of age, though that's his own decision.

 

[barny]

Why should the queen, and more importantly her court, allow you to take their future king out of their country?

Because he is your son as well. At the very least, her refusal should give you a cb, but she should only refuse, if she doesn't like you. As it is now, you aren't able to educate your son, even if the woman loves your king.

 

[Alyiakal]

well does not work this way, as you CAN not marry your son after landing him.

Hmm yes, my apologies. Misspoke there. Too used to dealing with claimants.

Well, in this case since you have a Queen of Castille, it would be probably easiest to marry your son to someone who has a claim, land your son, and then push the claim.