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Mar 14, 2004
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I'm pretty irritated with the way education during regencies is handled. Right now the player has zero opportunity to influence the education of his own character. This doesn't come up often, but it's really not acceptable.

When you're playing an adult, you have great control over the education of your children. When you're the child, you have zero control. If anything, you ought to have more control. It's your character. You're playing this person. Why doesn't the player get to respond to event choices? Why doesn't the player get to decide how to handle education events for himself? Why don't I, the player, get to decide how I react to what happens to me? Why is this treated the same way, with the same events, as some random child, some other person, educated outside my court by someone else?

This is always ridiculously frustrating for the player. This is my king. It's me. I'm going to be playing this person for perhaps the next fifty or sixty years or more. Perhaps one eighth of the entire game. How I'm educated is pretty important to me. I'd like to have some input. Wouldn't you think?

Why is some AI entity deciding for me how I'm going to react to things that happen to me that I'm going to have to live with for fifty years of gameplay in a game that only lasts 400 years?

Maybe I don't want the AI to make my king content? Because maybe I don't want to be completely unable to plot, losing an important feature of the game, for the next fifty years of the game? Maybe I don't want to be arbitrary, because it's an awful trait for a ruler? These are things that most players would take action to remove a child from the line of succession completely, even if it meant bringing out the assassins. Yet when you're the king, there's really nothing you can do about it.

This is really just a terrible solution. I can only imagine it's this way because someone didn't want to write events for children during regencies because the stock ones wouldn't work when you're the child. This really ought to be a priority in a patch.
 

Kurospidey

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I don't agree with you.

The point is- and I think the developers got it right- that when you're a child you can't decide what's right or wrong, thus your regent does. When you're an adult you can, in certain instances choose an option than gives you one or other trait. When you are educating children, you can also influence their traits. But if you're the child and you can also influence your own personality, then what's the point of education on the first place?

EDIT: BTW, the events for children are different as you are the one narrating what you're doing, you gain a trait depending on that and then your ward can take a decision upon it. For me it makes perfect sense.
 

Olaus Petrus

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I don't really see the problem here. Education events always fire to guardian of the child who makes the decision. It's no different than how your heir raises his own children if he has landed title. In similar manner you have zero control to who those grandsons will marry, but your heir will make that decision (or grandsons make the decision themselves if your heir has given them landed titles). In fact most of the time you don't have the choice, unless your king is young so he doesn't have grandsons or great grandsons or unless you decide to revoke landed titles from your descendants.
 

Ahaz Flagg

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I also disagree,it seems to be right for me also. I mean you are a child, you do not have the know how to educate yourself. *shrug* Not like you cannot survive a horrid ruler, after having an imbecile for a king for 30 years, nothing else bothers me about bad kings. :)
 

NoobRage

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I don't agree with you.

The point is- and I think the developers got it right- that when you're a child you can't decide what's right or wrong, thus your regent does.

Yes, but when a decision hits us, its the child who decides how to act, not the guardian. The arbitrary event is caused by smashing vases, what if i DONT want to smash vases?
 

markmid

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At the moment it makes more sense if the adult decides, as children have to mature to get a firmer understanding of not only the world but more importantly - themselves. Which is of course a lifelong quest for many people.

If it was based on child's decisions, the options should be different certainly. So you'd have more emotional swings till they hit maturity, wroth, greed, brave, kind etc. Then that would be realistic, but should also carry some kind of penalty above and beyond that. Maybe arbitrary could be more frequent, drops in stats as you try to go your own way, that kind of thing making it risky but possible to override the mentors decisions.
 

NoobRage

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If the only act available is smash vases, this is what your child king does.

Ok, but what if i dont want to smash vases? Its me who decides if i smash the vases. The game shoudnt give us only one option.
 

Iron Chariots

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I seem to remember being able to choose my educator as a child, am I remembering incorrectly? I often run elective so I don't end up in many regencies.
 

Anthropoid

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Even if you don't really like it, it seems like a fairly small thing to be honest. Moreover, you don't have to argue that no one has any agency prior to age 16 for the present system to make sense.

Adults are more powerful than pre-adults. The extent to which that is true obviously varies between individuals but it is generally the case that an adult in a sanctioned role as caregiver will (if they choose to) be able to exploit, manipulate or thwart the agency of a child under their supervision. Given we are dealing here with Medieval European aristrocratic courts, I think it is safe to assume that someone who was younger than the recognized age of man- woman-hood WOULD have been subject to being manipulated, if not subverted and thus, the regent's decisions as executed by the AI should take precedence.

In an ideal game, that might not be an absolute, lots of interesting narratives could emerge based on themes of the child ruler conflicting (or synergizing) with the actions or interests of the regent and this could embroil other members of the court, etc.

But that sounds like something pretty difficult to represent in a computer game and certainly far beyond what we have in the present game.
 

Vasious

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I don't agree with you.

The point is- and I think the developers got it right- that when you're a child you can't decide what's right or wrong, thus your regent does. When you're an adult you can, in certain instances choose an option than gives you one or other trait. When you are educating children, you can also influence their traits. But if you're the child and you can also influence your own personality, then what's the point of education on the first place?

EDIT: BTW, the events for children are different as you are the one narrating what you're doing, you gain a trait depending on that and then your ward can take a decision upon it. For me it makes perfect sense.

I agree, and yeah I would imagine the regent wouldnt always do what is best for you
 

NecroRenegade

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Perhaps something in the middle?

Random events would pop up when your char is a kid and you are given several different options to proceed. Each option will cater to different skills. After the event your tutor decides either to encourage you, discourage you etc.
 

icon41gimp

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Either the educator controls or the child controls, but not rigged to whichever the player is playing at the moment. Just turn on cheats if that's how you want it.

If you want the child to have more input on its own development then you must accept the same from children who you are educating.
 

Bigheeed

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I think the issue isn't with how the education works its that the negative traits have no positives....
I won't discuss the rule through fear/tyranny again but from what i remember its really only Pride and Greedy that have positives to the negative in the form of prestiege(?) and a national tax bonus. This should be extended further maybe with things like craven giving you a health bonus (from hiding in safety) and others giving you a better chance to assasinate/plot/revoke titles whatever.
Not only would it introduce new play styles it would also lessen the need for creating green traited super soldiers.
 

Aardvark Bellay

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Valinn remember you as a kid.
You haven't seen your traits/actions as what you've seen them later/now and that's why it makes perfectly sense to take control away from the conscious player.