Education bug?

[Imgran]

I think the mechanics of the game must change from top to bottom. Nor is understood the mechanics of traffic, using a single lane.

Actually we know what causes that. What causes that is when all the ways cars have to get what they really want to be doing flow through a handful of chokepoints that require all vehicles to be in a certain lane because that's the lane that the AI assigns to cars going to all the roads and intersections that are accessible through the chokepoint. Increase their options for getting to where they want to be (IE create other ways around chokepoints and bottlenecks) and you won't see one lane daisy chaining.

 

[Seny Androide]

Actually we know what causes that. What causes that is when all the ways cars have to get what they really want to be doing flow through a handful of chokepoints that require all vehicles to be in a certain lane because that's the lane that the AI assigns to cars going to all the roads and intersections that are accessible through the chokepoint. Increase their options for getting to where they want to be (IE create other ways around chokepoints and bottlenecks) and you won't see one lane daisy chaining.

That same complained some users, to improve the AI traffic. I understand that the intersections can create big traffic problems, but in real life is like this, in large cities there are traffic problems. They have two options, either to improve the AI cars or increase the time of product demand, for example, trucks and vans, however for much may take much time to reach it's destination, not will be problem.

It looks very ugly that the cars using only lane when they are 5 more.

 

[Seny Androide]

Do you have a university yet? They may need a few University grads. You seem primed to have happened to you what happened to me. I went school happy at the early-mid stage of my city because of my commercial and offices requiring more educated workers. So I plopped down a bunch of schools and already had a university. The problem eventually sorted itself out, but then created another problem... my industrial sector vacated workers. Since industrial will mostly accept uneducated people, it was fine until the last generation of idiots died off. There were no uneducated people left in the city to replace them. Because I had overdone the education system, all the smart people went to fill the educated jobs first, which left my industry areas hurting for workers. This in turn created huge traffic issues because all my goods for my now blossoming commercial district needed goods. Those goods were imported instead of manufactured, spreading my traffic out all over the city instead of concentrating it in my industrial area that was built to handle heavy traffic. This led me to massive re-designs of my road network. After much expansion in the residential area, and no more schools built, I eventually balanced it all out. So if I had to do it all over again, I would say that my first step would be to grow residential first, that would have avoided the industrial exodus that follows the usual knee jerk reaction of over educating your city. And all of this is because getting education balanced properly can be tricky.

No, I do not have a university yet, my city, as well can be seen in the photograph, is small, the university isn't available.

But stores were asking more educated workers, with the institute should suffice, since not having available the university, is all I have for now.

 

[Imgran]

That same complained some users, to improve the AI traffic. I understand that the intersections can create big traffic problems, but in real life is like this, in large cities there are traffic problems. They have two options, either to improve the AI cars or increase the time of product demand, for example, trucks and vans, however for much may take much time to reach it's destination, not will be problem.
It looks very ugly that the cars using only lane when they are 5 more.

I don't think you understand what I said.

Traffic doesn't use multiple lanes because somewhere in your road network is a single lane that all of them (or at least all the ones in that line) need to pass through to get where they need to go. The reason for the daisy chaining is because all of that traffic has that lane assigned to them because of where they're trying to get to.

Find that bottleneck and find a way to get rid of it by giving a diverse selection of alternative paths, and the one lane daisy chaining will be drastically reduced if not eliminated. This is why all of my neighborhoods I built off the freeway have two interchanges rather than one. It reduces the daisy chaining in that neighborhood to nearly zero.

A 6 lane road that everyone is using one lane of is a 2 lane road that has taken on too much weight and should be put on a diet.

 

[Method0ne]

Commercial building upgrades are, in my opinion, flawed as of right now.

To upgrade commercial buildings, they need only two things, happiness coverage (services/parks etc) and high wealth shoppers, as soon as those two things happen the stores will upgrade instantly and at level 2 will demand more educated workers to operate them. At this point if you don't have enough educated workers for the store it will be abandoned, afterwards, whether you demolish it or just wait for it to rebuild itself, as soon as that new store gets a single worker, it will upgrade again instantly to level 2 and demand educated workers. This is a repeatable loop scenario that can only be fixed by removing happiness coverage to limit the upgrade, or to wait it out until you have the educated workers for the store to operate.

The same might be the case with industrial as well, but I rarely have happiness coverage on those zones.

There is a fix that CO can make to this behaviour, and that fix is to simply disallow commercial (and industrial) building upgrades until that building already has enough educated workers for the upgrade to be successful and for the building to keep operating. Secondary to this initial fix they could add in some selective hiring, so for example;

1. Building is ready to upgrade - Check employee education level, if too low, move to 2, if good enough, move to 3.
2. Upgrade disallowed, start selective hiring process - To upgrade building we need X educated workers, prioritise these positions as uneducated workers leave/die. Return to 1.
3. Building is ready to upgrade, staff education level is adequate for building to function if upgrade occurs - Upgrade building.

In this fashion it would fix the repeating loop in that all building abandonment due to uneducated staff would stop, this would still allow for abandonment due to not enough staff in general.

For anyone who is about to reply with "This will take more processor time etc" please consider that at current the processor is wasting cycles with the repeating loop for every single building this happens with, if anything, this should reduce overhead and limit the need for players to have to keep happiness services away from upgradable buildings until they have sufficient education levels.

 

[Imgran]

I can think of another solution. Don't zone high density commercial until you have educated workers. Low density doesn't seem to have this problem, or at least I usually get my education up and running long before the problem is ruinous.

 

[Seny Androide]

The point is that, everything and have a institute, the stores were still asking for more educated workers. It's something I don't understand, I'm a good mayor, but I'm not a magician, the store will eventually be abandoned for lack of more educated workers, everything and having a high school nearby.

 

[Seny Androide]

I don't think you understand what I said.

Traffic doesn't use multiple lanes because somewhere in your road network is a single lane that all of them (or at least all the ones in that line) need to pass through to get where they need to go. The reason for the daisy chaining is because all of that traffic has that lane assigned to them because of where they're trying to get to.

Find that bottleneck and find a way to get rid of it by giving a diverse selection of alternative paths, and the one lane daisy chaining will be drastically reduced if not eliminated. This is why all of my neighborhoods I built off the freeway have two interchanges rather than one. It reduces the daisy chaining in that neighborhood to nearly zero.

A 6 lane road that everyone is using one lane of is a 2 lane road that has taken on too much weight and should be put on a diet.

I'm not the only that say this, is what everyone says, I understand that's the mechanics of traffic, so we are calling for a radical change, a 6-lane highway in theory should improve the flow of traffic, when really, in the game, is worse.

 

[Imgran]

So it gets abandoned, and replaced, and that one gets abandoned and replaced, and the third one abandoned burnt out, sinks into the swamp and replaced, but the 4th one will stay up.

 

[Imgran]

I'm not the only that say this, is what everyone says, I understand that's the mechanics of traffic, so we are calling for a radical change, a 6-lane highway in theory should improve the flow of traffic, when really, in the game, is worse.

Only if you placed it badly and are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Trust me I do know what I'm talking about kid. Just because everyone says it doesn't mean everyone's right.

 

[Seny Androide]

So it gets abandoned, and replaced, and that one gets abandoned and replaced, and the third one abandoned burnt out, sinks into the swamp and replaced, but the 4th one will stay up.

The logic of Cities: Skylines.

 

[Seny Androide]

Only if you placed it badly and are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Trust me I do know what I'm talking about kid. Just because everyone says it doesn't mean everyone's right.

It doesn't mean everyone's right, but CO should look on this issue, and indeed they doing it. If Cities: Skylines want to look like real life, do not have to use 1 single lane, please, is aesthetically ugly.

 

[Imgran]

And I'm explaining to you how YOU can fix YOUR traffic system to eliminate this problem, which has to do with traffic thinking several intersections ahead. Look ahead to find the bottleneck and create more options that require different lane assignments to use *and the problem will immediately go away every single time*

This is something *you* can do *right now* to avoid the problem entirely while CO is still deciding how, or even whether, to adjust the traffic logic. Since traffic logic is complicated to begin with a lot can go wrong when you set out to reprogram it so I can see them saying that since the problem is managable by the player base as it is right now, it may not be worth making a major change that could have its own serious drawbacks.

 

[Seny Androide]

And I'm explaining to you how YOU can fix YOUR traffic system to eliminate this problem, which has to do with traffic thinking several intersections ahead. Look ahead to find the bottleneck and create more options that require different lane assignments to use *and the problem will immediately go away every single time*

This is something *you* can do *right now* to avoid the problem entirely while CO is still deciding how, or even whether, to adjust the traffic logic. Since traffic logic is complicated to begin with a lot can go wrong when you set out to reprogram it so I can see them saying that since the problem is managable by the player base as it is right now, it may not be worth making a major change that could have its own serious drawbacks.

Bottleneck? What do you mean? Unite a small road with a big road? Could you post a picture to crçlear my doubt?

 

[Method0ne]

I can think of another solution. Don't zone high density commercial until you have educated workers. Low density doesn't seem to have this problem, or at least I usually get my education up and running long before the problem is ruinous.

This happens with low density commercial, which is what I was talking about, high density commercial needs educated workers from the outset, low density needs only uneducated at level 1 but needs educated at level 2 or more (same with industrial).

The issue is that your commercial can upgrade before education can come into effect, and thus you get the repeating loop I was talking about.

 

[Imgran]

Generally it's onramps, but it can be any situation where a large percentage of the traffic needs to go one way and only one to get where they need to go. Until they get to the point where their paths diverge towards their destination those cars will all occupy the same lanes on the same roads. The trick is to make those paths diverge just as soon as you possibly can.

 

[Imgran]

This happens with low density commercial, which is what I was talking about, high density commercial needs educated workers from the outset, low density needs only uneducated at level 1 but needs educated at level 2 or more (same with industrial.

Well then we're back to the Monty Python spoof. The fourth one will stay up. Eventually this problem will be fixed with patience and strong investment in the education system. Again, I make an effort to start educating ASAP, and it's never been a serious issue

The worst this is is a temporary problem anyway. Once your education is up to speed, the problem will resolve itself within a couple years. Just have that mod that deletes abandoned buildings and you'll barely even notice..

 

[Seny Androide]

This happens with low density commercial, which is what I was talking about, high density commercial needs educated workers from the outset, low density needs only uneducated at level 1 but needs educated at level 2 or more (same with industrial).

The issue is that your commercial can upgrade before education can come into effect, and thus you get the repeating loop I was talking about.

Exact.

 

[Seny Androide]

Generally it's onramps, but it can be any situation where a large percentage of the traffic needs to go one way and only one to get where they need to go. Until they get to the point where their paths diverge towards their destination those cars will all occupy the same lanes on the same roads. The trick is to make those paths diverge just as soon as you possibly can.

And you recommend lanes 1 direction in some streets?

 

[Method0ne]

Well I've never encountered that. Again, I make an effort to start educating ASAP, and it's never been a serious issue

The worst this is is a temporary problem anyway. Once your education is up to speed, the problem will resolve itself within a couple years. Just have that mod that deletes abandoned buildings and you'll barely even notice..

Just because you've never encountered it doesn't make it not true, as you said, you prioritise education, many people don't and thus we see this problem.

As to it resolving itself in a couple of years, in an unmodified game, that's correct, but there are those of us who use mods such as longer life-spans for our cims, in this case education even when prioritised takes a lot longer to come into effect, you will see the commercial upgrade loop quite prominently in this case.