Edict of Tolerance

[unmerged(40707)]

Edict of Tolerance should fire in 1650 (with big offset). Wth it, Catholic countries can diplo-annex Protestant ones.

With recent changes for Duchy of Prussia, inheritance by Brandenburg happens in 1657 (1618 before 1.50). Problem is Poland has time to diplo-annex Prussia between Edict of Tolerance and 1657 and Brandenburg will have no chance to inherit the Duchy with historical event.

I proposed to delay Edict to 1658 with reduced offset (max 1660) here.

Todor disagreed but it is fine in all tests I made with this change.

I understand delaying Edict for 8 years have effects: Tordesillas not removed, AI CRC countries not able to go back to Catholicism, no relation between Protestant and Catholic countries.
OTOH, I checked events and even if Brandenburg is not inheriting Duchy of Prussia, it can become Kingdom of Prussia (if flag = ClaimOnPrussia) but this is not a wanted situation.

I'm not convinced delaying Edict is so bad. Other solution could be for Prussia to artificially break vasselage in 1650 for immediate new vassalization by Poland and Poland won't be able to diplo-annex Duchy before 1657. But I'm not sure it is possible to break vasselage and trigger an event where vassalization is redone. Anyway, there must be no time between both actions. Otherwise, Poland will have a CB...

Which solution is the worst?

Any idea?

 

[sabular]

How does this interact Polands other protestant vassal, Courland? Are they gone by 1657 or do they face the same threat of diploannexation?

 

[unmerged(40707)]

It is the same. Before I changed dates for Edict, Poland was everywhere in Baltic area but there was other reasons: Poland overpowered. See here, nothing to add...

 

[unmerged(54293)]

Of course it works - you know the way around, after all.

Nevertheless, I had two main objections against delaying the Edict: First, 1658 is simply too late in historical terms, with all those negative effects lasting even longer. Second, it's a precedent for designing a global, important event around one specific purpose. I don't think this is the best way to go.

One alternative comes to my mind: If Poland agreed in 1618 (?) that Prussia may be inherited by Brandenburg, this should be taken for granted. That is - if Prussia was annexed in the meantime, Poland could still be compelled to fulfill its promise and consequently cede those two provinces to Brandenburg (which would then turn into Prussia itself). Perhaps a not very realistic option, but those things happened... and it would require only one additional event.

Otherwise, I have no other alternative at hand. A drop in relations between Poland and Prussia after 1650 might also do it, but if my alternative plan is not liked, simply delay the Edict.

 

[rybka]

Of course it works - you know the way around, after all.

Nevertheless, I had two main objections against delaying the Edict: First, 1658 is simply too late in historical terms, with all those negative effects lasting even longer. Second, it's a precedent for designing a global, important event around one specific purpose. I don't think this is the best way to go.

One alternative comes to my mind: If Poland agreed in 1618 (?) that Prussia may be inherited by Brandenburg, this should be taken for granted. That is - if Prussia was annexed in the meantime, Poland could still be compelled to fulfill its promise and consequently cede those two provinces to Brandenburg (which would then turn into Prussia itself). Perhaps a not very realistic option, but those things happened... and it would require only one additional event.

Otherwise, I have no other alternative at hand. A drop in relations between Poland and Prussia after 1650 might also do it, but if my alternative plan is not liked, simply delay the Edict.

imho the best option would be event reducing relations, when sweden attacked poland in 1655, brandenburg altough partly (?) polish vassals not only allowed swedes to go through their country, but openly went to war againt poland later, well they lost, but it shows that relations could be dropped

event like:
Elector of Brandenburg, Johann Sigismund since 1618, when he Brandenburg entered personal union with Eastern Prussia, was making efforts to gain full control over his eastern possesions and get rid of his dependence on kings of Poland. His actions severely decreased relations between Poland and Brandenburg like when he openly suported Sweden in war against Poland in 1655.
Event would be for poland (action a would decrease relations between poland and Bra and POL and prussia)

any ahistorical option b? (for player), i dont really like 1 action important events (i mean not flavour)
i dont know, maybe "show him his place" or something,
action b would be war with BRA and Prussia, but cores on Prussia, stability drop (-2?), badboy +5, relations drops with sweden, austria, brandenburg, prussia, kurland, some other protestant nations?

 

[sabular]

Second, it's a precedent for designing a global, important event around one specific purpose. I don't think this is the best way to go.

I agree

One alternative comes to my mind: If Poland agreed in 1618 (?) that Prussia may be inherited by Brandenburg, this should be taken for granted. That is - if Prussia was annexed in the meantime, Poland could still be compelled to fulfill its promise and consequently cede those two provinces to Brandenburg (which would then turn into Prussia itself). Perhaps a not very realistic option, but those things happened... and it would require only one additional event.

This actually sounds quite reasonable, or make an event in which prussia is rergranted independence or something. I think a solution along these lines should be possible

 

[rybka]

I agree



This actually sounds quite reasonable, or make an event in which prussia is rergranted independence or something. I think a solution along these lines should be possible

from gameplay reasons this is not really good solution

1. it should be checked that poland actually granted the right for inheritance to brandenburg
2. if poland inherited prussia after, event for BRA "Demand our rights"
a action - demand our rights (triggers event for poland)
b - forget it
3. event for poland
a action - secede prussia to brandenburg
b - no way (triggers another event for BRA)
4. event for BRA
a - go to war with poland
b - forget about claims

 

[szmik]

it would be easier to have an AI event breaking vassalage, depending on current flag.

I could write it if you like

 

[unmerged(40707)]

@ribka: I understand your point of view but I don't see why a chain of events is necessary to handle situation. It should be impossible for Poland to diplo-annex Prussia in this case.

@szmik: go for it. But Poland should not take advantage of the situation and be able to DoW Prussia. For not AI Prussia, no problem, a player will not accept diplo-annexation. But think about not AI Poland facing breaking vasselage Prussia.

 

[szmik]

@szmik: go for it. But Poland should not take advantage of the situation and be able to DoW Prussia. For not AI Prussia, no problem, a player will not accept diplo-annexation. But think about not AI Poland facing breaking vasselage Prussia.

I think to avoid Poland DoWing Prusia I could either make an alliance between them or give relation boost

I'll post the event later when I get home

 

[rybka]

@ribka: I understand your point of view but I don't see why a chain of events is necessary to handle situation. It should be impossible for Poland to diplo-annex Prussia in this case.

i dont know what do you want to have exactly
is this you want to have?:
-poland annexed prussia, event seceding prussia to BRA with no choice

from gamplay it is nonsense, assume someone who doesnt know about this event and boost relations with money and succesfulley annexes prussia and then this event fires??

isnt it better to decrease relations with events to avoid diploannexation?

i dont understand how you want to handle this exactly

 

[pluto_cfc]

I thought if you face Poland problem, just make their preference Protestant. From my experience, Poland will go either Protestant or Catholic.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

All I want is not seing Poland diplo-annexing Prussia between Edict of Tolerance and 1657 if Brandenburg is supposed to inherit in 1657 and let existing sequence fire in 1657 (for Brandenburg, Poland or Courland and Prussia).

Decreasing relations could be a solution but we have no insurance Poland will not raise them afterwards and finally DA Prussia before 1657 or has time to do it before correction in relations is made by events.

 

[unmerged(54293)]

All I want is not seing Poland diplo-annexing Prussia between Edict of Tolerance and 1657 if Brandenburg is supposed to inherit in 1657 and let existing sequence fire in 1657 (for Brandenburg, Poland or Courland and Prussia).

And I don't see why this would be absolutely necessary. Clearly, it did not happen historically - but it could have, given that even some Prussian nobles requested the Polish king to annex the duchy to Poland.

Therefore I'd favour rybka's approach of simply ceding the provinces to Brandenburg if they are already owned by Poland (with a B option for humans, of course). Personally, I could live with a Prussia belonging to Poland for a short time between 1650 and 1657.

 

[rybka]

so maybe event decreasing relations +
just in case suggested sequence of events if poland managed to annex prussia?

 

[szmik]

so maybe event decreasing relations +
just in case suggested sequence of events if poland managed to annex prussia?

the problem with relations is that AI will raise them when not at war, and between 1650 and 1657 AI could possibly raise them few times without any problem.
Unless we want to make Polish-Swedish war of 1655 by means of new event sequence, which personally I don't want to see scripted o

 

[unmerged(40707)]

so maybe event decreasing relations +
just in case suggested sequence of events if poland managed to annex prussia?

Both could be the solution but szmik is right. We want Brandenburg inherit at 100% (or have the two provinces and be able to form the Kingdom of Prussia as intended).

 

[rybka]

the problem with relations is that AI will raise them when not at war, and between 1650 and 1657 AI could possibly raise them few times without any problem.
Unless we want to make Polish-Swedish war of 1655 by means of new event sequence, which personally I don't want to see scripted o

well i think we have to try i guess

 

[szmik]

here it is:

event = {
id = xxxx
trigger = {
ai = yes
event = 103 #Edict of Tolerance
vassal = { country = POL country = PRU }
}
random = no
country = PRU
name = "AI_EVENT"
desc = "Breaking vassalization with Poland"
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1650 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1657 }

action_a = {
name = ""
command = { type = breakvassal which = POL }
command = { type = relation which = POL value = 200 } #maybe less
command = { type = stability value = 2 } #dunno if vassalage broken with events lowers stability
}
}