Edge of Europe - A Belgian Interactive AAR

[Keperry]

To have both languages is unwieldy, confusing and overbearing. While this is fine for government, the military needs to be both efficent and effective. We do not want to end up like the Danubians do we?

((What Danubians? There's no Danubia yet. That's a separate timeline and anyway this is 1833, not 1848.))

 

[theAhawk]

The King
1st Choice: Native Belgian
2nd Choice: Auguste
3rd Choice: Leopold
General Government
Van Brabant Constitutional Amendment Article, as Revised: Yes
Vanderhoof Abolition of Political Parties: No
Executive
Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal, as revised*: No
Merode Article on the Role of the Church*: Yes
Lévesque Article Concerning the Governance of Belgium*: No
Lévesque Article Concerning the Establishment of the Belgian Crown*: No
Savarin Proposal for Monarch Selection*: Abstain
Legislature
Lévesque Article concerning the Governance of Belgium*: No (again...)
The du Sint-Niklaas Senate Proposal*: Yes
Galler Legislative Immunity Article: Yes
Van Cock Parliament Article, as revised*: No
Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal for the Legislature of Belgium*: Abstain
Judiciary
Aerts Judiciary Article V2: No
Galler Judiciary Article: Yes
Rights and Classes
Vanderhoof Guarantee of the Rights of the Nobility: Yes
Van Buskirk's Proposal on the Special Rights of the Church and Clergy: Yes
Brabant Proposal for the Fair Allotment of Rights to the Clergy, Revision 1: Abstain
Van Den Brucke Social Classes of Belgium: Abstain
Van Den Brucke Belgian Concession of Rights: Yes
Vanderhoof Article Regarding Press and Slander: No
Military
Van Brabant Martial Law Article: Yes
Savarin Armed Forces Proposal, as revised: No
Brabant Belgian Royal Armed Forces Article: Yes
De Ligne Declaration of War Article V2: No
Peeters' Declaration of War Proposal, third draft: Yes
Other
Van Brabant Standard: No
Wolff Article Defining the Rights and Duties of Belgians Abroad: Abstain

 

[ThunderHawk3]

Spoiler

The King
1st Choice: Native Belgian
2nd Choice: Auguste
3rd Choice: Leopold
General Government
Van Brabant Constitutional Amendment Article, as Revised: Yes
Vanderhoof Abolition of Political Parties: No
Executive
Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal, as revised*: No
Merode Article on the Role of the Church*: Yes
Lévesque Article Concerning the Governance of Belgium*: No
Lévesque Article Concerning the Establishment of the Belgian Crown*: No
Savarin Proposal for Monarch Selection*: Abstain
Legislature
Lévesque Article concerning the Governance of Belgium*: No (again...)
The du Sint-Niklaas Senate Proposal*: Yes
Galler Legislative Immunity Article: Yes
Van Cock Parliament Article, as revised*: No
Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal for the Legislature of Belgium*: Abstain
Judiciary
Aerts Judiciary Article V2: No
Galler Judiciary Article: Yes
Rights and Classes
Vanderhoof Guarantee of the Rights of the Nobility: Yes
Van Buskirk's Proposal on the Special Rights of the Church and Clergy: Yes
Brabant Proposal for the Fair Allotment of Rights to the Clergy, Revision 1: Abstain
Van Den Brucke Social Classes of Belgium: Abstain
Van Den Brucke Belgian Concession of Rights: Yes
Vanderhoof Article Regarding Press and Slander: No
Military
Van Brabant Martial Law Article: Yes
Savarin Armed Forces Proposal, as revised: No
Brabant Belgian Royal Armed Forces Article: Yes
De Ligne Declaration of War Article V2: No
Peeters' Declaration of War Proposal, third draft: Yes
Other
Van Brabant Standard: No
Wolff Article Defining the Rights and Duties of Belgians Abroad: Abstain

Voting actually hasn't opened yet and won't for another nine hours - but I appreciate your zeal.

EDIT: Lévesque Article concerning the Governance of Belgium duplicate removed.

 

[theAhawk]

Voting actually hasn't opened yet and won't for another nine hours - but I appreciate your zeal.

EDIT: Lévesque Article concerning the Governance of Belgium duplicate removed.

((Oh, I'm really bad at reading... ))

 

[Dadarian]

((What Danubians? There's no Danubia yet. That's a separate timeline and anyway this is 1833, not 1848.))

((Almost like Austria is the joke of Europe after being absolutely hamhanded by Napoleon and still is in a downward spiral ... oh wait.))

 

[Gen. Marshall]

((You should look at the proposals that were removed in between my last edit and your posting of the example ballot.

Also, might it be useful to number the proposals? Like this:

Spoiler

The King

1st Choice:
2nd Choice:
3rd Choice:

General Government

1 [post=15768894]Van Brabant Constitutional Amendment Article, as Revised[/post]:
2 [post=15780399]Vanderhoof Abolition of Political Parties[/post]:

Executive

3 [post=15770313]Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal, as revised[/post]*:
4 [post=15771200]Merode Article on the Role of the Church[/post]*:
5 [post=15772085]Lévesque Article Concerning the Governance of Belgium[/post]*:
6 [post=15772346]Lévesque Article Concerning the Establishment of the Belgian Crown[/post]*:
7 [post=15777102]Savarin Proposal for Monarch Selection[/post]*:

Legislature

8 [post=15777404]Galler Legislative Immunity Article[/post]:
9 [post=15782587]Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal for the Legislature of Belgium[/post]*:

Judiciary

10 [post=15788291]Aerts Judiciary Article V2[/post]:
11 [post=15785248]Galler Judiciary Article[/post]:

Rights and Classes

12 [post=15770911]Vanderhoof Guarantee of the Rights of the Nobility[/post]:
13 [post=15784877]Van Buskirk's Proposal on the Special Rights of the Church and Clergy[/post]:
14 [post=15786265]Brabant Proposal for the Fair Allotment of Rights to the Clergy, Revision 1[/post]:
15 [post=15786340]Van Den Brucke Social Classes of Belgium[/post]:
16 [post=15786150]Van Den Brucke Belgian Concession of Rights[/post]:
17 [post=15786727]Vanderhoof Article Regarding Press and Slander[/post]:

Military

18 [post=15776486]Van Brabant Martial Law Article[/post]:
19 [post=15770576]Savarin Armed Forces Proposal, as revised[/post]:
20 [post=15789249]Brabant Belgian Royal Armed Forces Article[/post]:
21 [post=15790357]De Ligne Declaration of War Article V2[/post]:
22 [post=15792209]Peeters' Declaration of War Proposal, third draft[/post]:

Other

23 [post=15784027]Van Brabant Standard[/post]:
24 [post=15791434]Wolff Article Defining the Rights and Duties of Belgians Abroad[/post]:

))

 

[yourworstnightm]

Ok, after some deliberation I will withdraw the van Cock Parliament Article

 

[ThunderHawk3]

((You should look at the proposals that were removed in between my last edit and your posting of the example ballot.

Also, might it be useful to number the proposals? Like this:

So you can vote by number instead of by name? Is that the idea?

Also, I think I've removed all the withdrawn proposals now, including Van Cock's Parliament Article.

 

[Dadarian]

I propose the following:

The Vanderhoof Article on the Organization, Expansion, and Reduction of the Aristocratic Class

I. A list of all Aristocratic families in Belgium shall be drawn up for the ease of the Royal Family and the Government
II. The List shall be overseen by the Royal Chamberlain
III. The List shall be expanded to oversee any new noble families created in the Kingdom of Belgium
IV. The requirements of becoming a new aristocratic family is defined by the King
V. The List shall abolish any extinct aristocratic families
VI. The definition of extinction of an aristocratic family is the death of the last male heir
VII. All new aristocratic families shall consult the Royal Steward in creating a new crest for the family

I withdraw the Vanderhoof Abolition of Parties and present the following instead:

The Vanderhoof Guarantee of Parties
I. The Political Party is a integral part of the Belgian Political System, and they can never be abolished without: The will of the King, 2/3 Upper House approval, 3/4 Lower House Approval
II. A Political Party can only be abolished and banned with: The will of the King, 1/2 Upper and Lower House approval

 

[yourworstnightm]

Political Parties are free associations. Although I think they are unnecessary, the formation and dissolving of political parties should be up to the members of said parties. A political party that openly support sedition, anti- monarchism and rebellion, or is working in the interest of a foreign power should be bannable by the king though.

 

[Gen. Marshall]

Political Parties are free associations. Although I think they are unnecessary, the formation and dissolving of political parties should be up to the members of said parties. A political party that openly support sedition, anti- monarchism and rebellion, or is working in the interest of a foreign power should be bannable by the king though.

I thank you for explaining the reasons for my support of The Vanderhoof Guarantee of Parties.

- Maximiliaan van Brabant, Delegate of Antwerp

 

[Marschalk]

Political Parties are free associations. Although I think they are unnecessary, the formation and dissolving of political parties should be up to the members of said parties. A political party that openly support sedition, anti- monarchism and rebellion, or is working in the interest of a foreign power should be bannable by the king though.

I agree. Dangerous political parties, that call for such things, should be bannable. The King and the Supreme Court should have the neccessary powers.

- Charles, Prince de Ligne

 

[G.K.]

Political parties should not be subjected to any regulation unless they seek to destroy the freedoms guaranteed in constitution. There is no need to put this into the constitution, though; a simple law should be sufficient.

Also, I have to warn you all from letting politicians ban any parties, since this calls for abuse. If you need someone to decide on banning dangerous parties, it should be Supreme Court's decision based upon a suitable law.

 

[jeeshadow]

I hope this adresses new concerns
Article for Impeachment and Justice of Goverment officals Revesion 3

-Any offical of the govenment of Belgium can be impeached, and of any branch
-Impeachment is for if someone has abused the powers of their office and/or done something illegal
-This requires a 2/3rds majority vote of the lower house
-If an offical is Impeached, the Senate will hold an Conviction trial. A simple majority of the Senate will be Convicted. If an offical is not convicted, they do not have to step down
-The Supreme Court can overturn any impeachment
-If the Prime Minister is impeached, this is not a vote of no confidence. The rulling party will just put in another PM
-For further clarification on who can be impeached, any member of the Parliment or Senate, Prime Minister, any Military Commander
-Any member of the Judicary must be impeached by the Supreme Court. If a member of the Supreme court needs to be impeached, the rest of the supreme court shall have impeachment power
-All members of Government are subject to the laws of Belgium. They are not to be given any favor by the law. The Monarch is also subject to the same laws
-If a member of the Government is arrested, he has to temporarly step down. If he is convicted, he must steep down perminitly. If he is found not guilty, he can resume his post

 

[atomicsoda]

I had withdrawn the galler judicial article so it should be removed from the list.
The Galler legislative language article should be voted on.

 

[Otto of england]

-If the Prime Minister is impeached, this is not a vote of no confidence. The rulling party will just put in another PM

It would be absurd to let the ruling party put their own candidate as PM! No country that I know of has any method for the Head of Government to be picked from his own party! This should be changed to the monarch can appoint a new person from the lower house as Prime Minister.

- Fabian van de Velde, Count of Ypres

 

[ThunderHawk3]

Voting on the De Velde Provision for the Incapability of the Monarch has closed. It has passed and joins the Belgian Citizenship Provision, the Joint Bill of Rights, the Loewen Parliament Proposal, the Language Article, Brabant Structure of Government Article, and Merode Executive Proposal as part of the Constitution. (To say nothing of the Delcroix List of Candidates and the Daret Ranked Voting Proposal.)

((Sorry for the late closure, I made a mistake with the time.))

 

[Plutonium95]

It would be absurd to let the ruling party put their own candidate as PM! No country that I know of has any method for the Head of Government to be picked from his own party! This should be changed to the monarch can appoint a new person from the lower house as Prime Minister.

- Fabian van de Velde, Count of Ypres

Currently the PM is selected by a simple majority in the LH then that choice is appointed by the monarch. I think that the same method should be used to select a replacement. The monarch should not be able to just pick a the new PM without any checks on their power.

Delegate from Liège, Michel Daret

 

[ThunderHawk3]

I had withdrawn the galler judicial article so it should be removed from the list.
The Galler legislative language article should be voted on.

Understood and fixed.

 

[hoi2geek]

My vote:

The King

1st Choice: Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich
2nd Choice: Archduke Charles, Duke of Teschen
3rd Choice: Native Belgian

General Government

1 Van Brabant Constitutional Amendment Article, as Revised: ABSTAIN
2 Vanderhoof Abolition of Political Parties: AYE

Executive

3 Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal, as revised*: AYE
4 Merode Article on the Role of the Church*: NAY - It is uneccessary, as my proposal also includes a provision for that
5 Lévesque Article Concerning the Governance of Belgium*: NAY
6 Lévesque Article Concerning the Establishment of the Belgian Crown*: NAY
7 Savarin Proposal for Monarch Selection*: NAY

Legislature

8 Galler Legislative Immunity Article: ABSTAIN
9 Van Steinbeck-Antonov Proposal for the Legislature of Belgium*: AYE

Judiciary

10 Aerts Judiciary Article V2: NAY
11 Galler Judiciary Article: AYE

Rights and Classes

12 Vanderhoof Guarantee of the Rights of the Nobility: AYE
13 Van Buskirk's Proposal on the Special Rights of the Church and Clergy: AYE
14 Brabant Proposal for the Fair Allotment of Rights to the Clergy, Revision 1: NAY
15 Van Den Brucke Social Classes of Belgium: AYE
16 Van Den Brucke Belgian Concession of Rights: AYE
17 Vanderhoof Article Regarding Press and Slander: AYE

Military

18 Van Brabant Martial Law Article: AYE - with the provision that the Emergency Martial Law can be extended indefinitely if the need rises
19 Savarin Armed Forces Proposal, as revised: AYE
20 Brabant Belgian Royal Armed Forces Article: AYE
21 De Ligne Declaration of War Article V2: NAY
22 Peeters' Declaration of War Proposal, third draft: AYE

Other

23 Van Brabant Standard: AYE
24 Wolff Article Defining the Rights and Duties of Belgians Abroad: AYE

-Jan-Aleksandr Ivanovich van Steinbeck-Antonov
Councillor of Antwerp