Edge of Europe - A Belgian Interactive AAR

[Dyranum]

((To quote from the update:

The President ((Riccardo93)) has the sole power to appoint the Prime Minister and should do so.

))

((That's OOC. You can't bring in OOC, into IC, it is weird. That said, there are sensible arguments against Lanterfanter's position, which I have earlier already stated in-thread, but those are different from OOC statements as such are IC arguments. It is without a doubt so that Lanterfanter den Tweede Slak and Juriste Aléatoire don't agree on this issue, and I am inclined to OOC agree with the latter. However, that is irrelevant, and as such is your OOC comment; it won't change what den Tweede Slak believes, and I already hold the same opinion OOC (as in, the opinion that the President can appoint the PM). So... he will continue to call for sanctions against the President, at least until valid counter-arguments are presented. I did, you know, mention that he is an Evil Rules Lawyer, not a Good or a Neutral one.

To summarise: An OOC statement is not a valid counter-argument IC. You know, separation between player and character.))

 

[DensleyBlair]

((That's OOC. You can't bring in OOC, into IC, it is weird. That said, there are sensible arguments against Lanterfanter's position, which I have earlier already stated in-thread, but those are different from OOC statements as such are IC arguments. It is without a doubt so that Lanterfanter den Tweede Slak and Juriste Aléatoire don't agree on this issue, and I am inclined to OOC agree with the latter. However, that is irrelevant, and as such is your OOC comment; it won't change what den Tweede Slak believes, and I already hold the same opinion OOC (as in, the opinion that the President can appoint the PM). So... he will continue to call for sanctions against the President, at least until valid counter-arguments are presented. I did, you know, mention that he is an Evil Rules Lawyer, not a Good or a Neutral one.

To summarise: An OOC statement is not a valid counter-argument IC. You know, separation between player and character.))

((I can't say that I was aiming to present any sort of counter argument, though that's irrelevant. In any case, I have no desire to continue this discussion and shall therefore leave den Tweede Slak to his jurisprudential dealings.))

I congratulate President-Elect Maga on his victory. Regardless of my own views on the subject, the victory is without a doubt an important event, and I look forward to seeing what its repercussions shall be.

~S. de Nîmes

 

[Davout]

((Dyranum, you can't raise an IC argument to an OOC pronouncement by the person running the iAAR. Their word is law and to challenge it is at worst an attempt to usurp the role of the owner of the iAAR, at best an exercise in unnecessary verbage.))

 

[99KingHigh]

((Dyranum, you can't raise an IC argument to an OOC pronouncement by the person running the iAAR. Their word is law and to challenge it is at worst an attempt to usurp the role of the owner of the iAAR, at best an exercise in unnecessary verbage.))

((In other words. TREASON!))

 

[Harpsichord]

((Dyranum, you can't raise an IC argument to an OOC pronouncement by the person running the iAAR. Their word is law and to challenge it is at worst an attempt to usurp the role of the owner of the iAAR, at best an exercise in unnecessary verbage.))

((? He hasn't done that))

 

[Nax24]

The Simple Times​

It seems that my predictions were indeed wrong for the presidential elections. The reader may remember that I predicted Guy Oultremont would win the election, but I was indeed wrong. Nicephore Maga has won the election, making the LDP once more in control of the presidency (with Maga winning the election, the LDP has had more Presidents in this republic then any of the other parties, an achievement worth noting). The biggest and obvious characteristic of Mr. Maga is that he is indeed not of the European descent, but instead, is an African, a "Black man in a white world" as one may put it. Now, during the early days of the Belgian State, a bill was passed that gave equal rights to all sexes, races, and religions. This act let Madame Savarin run for the Presidency for three terms, and it allowed Maga to run for President this year. Now most people would congratulate Maga on a job well done in defeating some tough opponents like D'Ursel and Oultremont, but not in this case. Almost immediately after his election, numerous agitators took to the stage to protest the election of an African to the Presidency, many of which belonged to the CCU. They say that (this was during the election);

The men and women of the mainland, grown weak and soft as they were before the War, are about to vote a Negro into office. True, that is much like dressing a chimpanzee in a suit and calling him President but I counsel you to remember that chimps can bite. Once a Negro is ushered into that insufferable sham of an office, your time will be over. Savages will be handed the whip and you and your wives and daughters will be at their mercy.

Clearly racism still exists, even though the constitution of this republic guarantees them equal status. Why are we abusing the African people? They are people just like us, and as such, deserve the same treatment as a white man. I applaud Mr. Maga, a man who came from a continent declared full of "savages" and "barbarians", and rose to hold the most prestigious office in all of Belgium. Mr. Maga seems to know what is right for this country, and I fully put my trust into him to get the job done.

Now the next step would be to create a cabinet for the President Elect. Already, Maarten Lowen has been selected as Prime Minister of this country, something that has indeed been seen in the BSU as a sign of acknowledgement. Remember, they did not have any cabinet spot under the Prime Ministry of van der Werve. Now Mister Lowen has to create a government, and it is unknown who shall be in it, and who shall be left out. A lot of people are focusing on the Ministry of Finance, for without Pierre Savarin running it, who will?

-Lex Laurent

 

[99KingHigh]

The Simple Times​

Clearly racism still exists, even though the constitution of this republic guarantees them equal status.

((lol))

 

[Ab Ovo]

After the continued failure of negotiations to produce a stable and republican coalition, largely as a result of the obstructionist policies of M. Vanderhoof as NDP leader, I therefore call for a vote of no confidence in M. Vanderhoof so that a government can be formed with the working input of the National Democrats. The point of a coalition is compromise between the parties and the continual negativity and bullheadedness of M. Vanderhoof is making NDP participation, as a result, look increasingly unlikely.

-Guy Oultremont

 

[Dyranum]

((Dyranum, you can't raise an IC argument to an OOC pronouncement by the person running the iAAR. Their word is law and to challenge it is at worst an attempt to usurp the role of the owner of the iAAR, at best an exercise in unnecessary verbage.))

((As was also stated by Harp, that is not actually what I am doing. I am (though it is inaccurate to speak of it in first person) IC as the character den Tweede Slak raising an IC argument against an IC action. Den Tweede Slak is presenting an interpretation which would make the actions taken by the Government illegal; said interpretation is a blatant attempt at discrediting and dethroning the Government, and it is flawed and biased. I, for one, don't agree with him, and what he thinks I have no idea of—he possibly doesn't believe it either, but simply attempts to sabotage a Government which does not include the CCU. It should be assumed that the administration of the state at large, and the Supreme Court, follows the—in light of the circumstances, especially reasonable intentions—more reasonable interpretation. That said, without presenting a proper counter-argument, the opposing side loses the argument, at least politically or argumentatively (or whatever the correct term is here); a point scored in favour of den Tweede Slak.

What I am not doing is attempting to overrule an authoritative OOC statement, for what the GM says is fact. You can't argue against an OOC action based on OOC reasons without making an OOC argument, and it is really quite irrelevant to the matter at hand as shown by the preceding paragraph. That said, arguing against the GM with the use of the rules of the game is Evil Rules Lawyering, but that's not what I'm doing—that's what den Tweede Slak is doing, sort-of. It is not an exact comparison, since den Tweede Slak is not attacking the GM, but another character.

Separation of IC and OOC, you know.

A summary: No, not an attempt to usurp the GM. No, not unnecessary verbage. If every attempt at miscrediting your opponent by presenting an argument is unnecessary verbage, then isn't much of this AAR that?))

 

[Harpsichord]

((I can post the current OOB on Tuesday, thought I'm happy to PM an overview if one would like.))

 

[Dyranum]

The Simple Times​

Clearly racism still exists, even though the constitution of this republic guarantees them equal status.

-Lex Laurent

The Constitution of the Republic guarantees racism equal status, you what? Why am I even receiving this newspaper?

Aside from lingual errors, the writer doesn't even seem to realise that the very reasonable skepticism is due to the incompetence of Maga! Why should such "discrimination" (or rather, common sense) not be as it should be? No liberal or Socialist should be President. Ever. I don't understand why people keep electing them—it's like insanity, doing something (such as running headlong into a wall) over and over again, and expecting a different result.

—Deputy Lanterfanter den Tweede Slak

 

[oxfordroyale]

After the continued failure of negotiations to produce a stable and republican coalition, largely as a result of the obstructionist policies of M. Vanderhoof as NDP leader, I therefore call for a vote of no confidence in M. Vanderhoof so that a government can be formed with the working input of the National Democrats. The point of a coalition is compromise between the parties and the continual negativity and bullheadedness of M. Vanderhoof is making NDP participation, as a result, look increasingly unlikely.

-Guy Oultremont

I second this vote of no confidence in Samuel Vanderhoof. It is absolutely essential that the NDP play major role in this new government, and M. Vanderhoof's continued disruption of this is dismaying. Unless he radically changes his behaviour, I must support this motion.

- Tristan van Halle

 

[ThunderHawk3]

((That's OOC. You can't bring in OOC, into IC, it is weird. That said, there are sensible arguments against Lanterfanter's position, which I have earlier already stated in-thread, but those are different from OOC statements as such are IC arguments. It is without a doubt so that Lanterfanter den Tweede Slak and Juriste Aléatoire don't agree on this issue, and I am inclined to OOC agree with the latter. However, that is irrelevant, and as such is your OOC comment; it won't change what den Tweede Slak believes, and I already hold the same opinion OOC (as in, the opinion that the President can appoint the PM). So... he will continue to call for sanctions against the President, at least until valid counter-arguments are presented. I did, you know, mention that he is an Evil Rules Lawyer, not a Good or a Neutral one.

To summarise: An OOC statement is not a valid counter-argument IC. You know, separation between player and character.))

((First of all, I will often make OOC statements about what you can and can't do IC. I expect these directives to be followed. This is one such case.

Secondly, the President has sole power to appoint the Prime Minister. The "power vacuum" caused by the Presidential Rights Amendment - ie: that no one is explicitly given the power to appoint the Prime Minister - will be filled by the President, not the Parliament. You may assume for IC purposes that there has been a court ruling to this effect.))

 

[ThunderHawk3]

I must commend you, gentlemen. In Africa the Republic reigns, but she does not rule. In Africa the vanguard of the National Revolution -- so brave, so strong -- continues to make the land flourish and keep the [] in his natural place. But your time is running out. The men and women of the mainland, grown weak and soft as they were before the War, are about to vote a [] into office. True, that is much like dressing a chimpanzee in a suit and calling him President but I counsel you to remember that chimps can bite. Once a [] is ushered into that insufferable sham of an office, your time will be over. Savages will be handed the whip and you and your wives and daughters will be at their mercy.

((While I'm moderating, I'm going to rule that the comparison of black people to chimpanzees is unacceptable racism. I will say again that historical racism is no excuse for racism on this forum or in this thread... I am also uncomfortable with the use of the term 'negro' as this has extremely racially charged connotations.))

 

[Dyranum]

((First of all, I will often make OOC statements about what you can and can't do IC. I expect these directives to be followed. This is one such case.

Secondly, the President has sole power to appoint the Prime Minister. The "power vacuum" caused by the Presidential Rights Amendment - ie: that no one is explicitly given the power to appoint the Prime Minister - will be filled by the President, not the Parliament. You may assume for IC purposes that there has been a court ruling to this effect.))

((You make it sound as if I disagree... The short footnote in this past post more accurately shows my stance on the issue as an IC fact in OOC.

That said, no one seems to care to counter den Tweede Slak; so, one would assume that he wins the argument. Further elaboration, for anyone who cares: On the difference between IC and OOC, and some other stuff on the same issue, asserting that you can't counter an IC argument by making an OOC statement—that's just lazy. But I don't understand why this seems to be of importance OOC, since it is IC, and since I—as separate from my characters—from at least 12 pages ago agree with the OOC. Summary: IC ≠ OOC.

But I digress. This is a pointless OOC discussion, but it was fun writing it nonetheless—I suppose I got carried away.))

 

[LatinKaiser]

((I understand that the term "negro" is racist now, but in the 1930s it was considered an appropriate term, just sayin'.))

 

[ThunderHawk3]

((I understand that the term "negro" is racist now, but in the 1930s it was considered an appropriate term, just sayin'.))

((I'll say it again historical racism is not a justification for racism - here or anywhere else on the forum.))

 

[LatinKaiser]

My fellow Belgians, I have failed you. I thought that the socialists could be trusted; I thought that they could be reasoned with, but they only seek the destruction of Belgium and the impoverishment of its people. They have dedicated themselves to a fight against Belgian values, to a fight against Christian values, and I was foolish enough to try to compromise with them. Recent discussions with the socialist leadership have led me to the realization that they never intended to include the CCU in a National Unity government, and that my trust was misplaced. Join me, fellow Belgians, in defense of liberty. Let us resist these socialists and their ungodly Crusade against Belgium. I fought in the Great War; I fought in the Civil War, and I say that the day that I let Belgium fall to its deadliest enemies is the day that I cease to be a Belgian. Let all true Belgians join me in agitation! Let us show this socialist government that we will not go quietly into the night! We shall carry on, we shall keep fighting for Belgium, for this day and all days to come, until Brussels is rid of these treacherous socialists!

~ Hans Müller

 

[Dyranum]

These filthy Republicans must be stopped! I will be agitating for a return to tradition! New speeches every day (except for sundays) on the moral reprehensibility of the sitting Government, during lunch-time! The location will of course be the Chamber of Deputies. Come and hear the truth!

*whispers to an "assistant"* Do you think that was suitably dramatic? I'm not good at these "selling a concept" thingies. I mean, back when I was young...

—Deputy Lanterfanter den Tweede Slak

 

[oxfordroyale]

((This is going to be ugly))