This proposal is very incomplete it says nothing of the appointment to lower courts or how they are structured. We need trial courts and regional appeal courts.
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This proposal is very incomplete it says nothing of the appointment to lower courts or how they are structured. We need trial courts and regional appeal courts.
I only have one thing to say… (takes off his left shoe)
YOU ALL ARE TRAITORS! THE LOT OF YOU!
You (and some people in this Convention, led by that sniveling, perfidious Loewen) are nothing more than rats and cockroaches willing to drive all Belgians into slavery. And most of you sitting here today are all jerks, stooges, lackeys, and toadies of Jacobin (or even Dutch) imperialism.
And if you think I'm going to let holy Belgium, our sacred and inviolable Motherland, sink into the abyss, then you are sadly mistaken. I will fight with every fibre of my body until I see this abomination of a proposal struck down. Then when I'm done, I swear to my God and to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I will personally see to it that we, the people of both my sacred Hero City Antwerp and this fair Motherland, shall bury you from within.
(proceeds to bang his shoe on the podium, shouting at the top of his lungs)
DO YOU HEAR ME?? DO YOU HEAR MEEEE????????
-Jan-Aleksandr Ivanovich van Steinbeck-Antonov
Councillor of Antwerp
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(Damseaux stands up and slams his hands onto the desks)
Monsieur Steinbeck-Antonov, do you need me to place you under military arrest! Calm yourself, good sir!
Monsieur Steinbeck-Antonov, do you need me to place you under military arrest! Calm yourself, good sir!
A leader of the ruling political country appointing judges with the consent of the Senate, the half of which he appoints... Really, we will have political judges and political trials very soon.
In most democratic European countries (like France and Spain) the judges are appointed by an apolitical and independent Head of State, the Monarch. This is the variant we should choose.
- Charles, Prince de Ligne
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Frans looks at delegate van Steinbeck-Antonov like an insane man, and promptly asks him to remain civil, despite however infuriated he may be. He then proceeds to bless his soul.
I'll take the liberty to propose my vision of Judiciary. I believe this may be a compromise between all and should create an independent judiciary to protect us all.
Just in case - The Chamber of Advocates and Judges should be a body made from every Judge/Advocate with a mandatory membership. That belongs to a law, not to a constitution, though.
I would also like to withdraw both of my proposals - the republican constitution and the legislature.
de Graaf‘s Proposal Regarding the Judiciary
Judiciary
- Judiciary is an independent branch of power set up to protect the rights of Belgian citizens and Belgian Constitution.
- The judgements shall be carried out “in the name of the King of Belgians”.
- Judges shall not take any position within legislature, executive or military.
- Judges shall not be members of political parties.
- Judges shall be appointed for life.
- Judge shall be a Belgian citizen educated in law older than 30 years. No man with criminal record may be a judge.
Supreme Court of Belgium
- Supreme Court of Belgium is the only organ capable of interpreting the Constitution. The Constitution is the only document relevant for its decisions.
- Supreme Court has 9 judges.
- Supreme Court has a right to repeal any law already published in case the judges should find it unconstitutional. This cannot be overruled by any means.
- Supreme Court shall also repeal any decision made by the Monarch or government in case the judges should find it unconstitutional or illegal.
- Supreme Court also holds trials for high treason based on a complaint filed by the Senate.
- Supreme Court shall decide with a simple majority vote of all judges.
- Judges of the Supreme Court are appointed by the Monarch and approved by the Prime Minister.
- Judges of the Supreme Court can only be impeached by a two-thirds majority amongst the Supreme Court.
- Judges of the Supreme Court shall not be prosecuted for any kind of delict.
Court system of Belgium
- Only Courts shall decide on crimes and punishments.
- The Court system consists of Local Courts, Regional Courts, and Royal Courts for Flanders and Wallonia.
- Judges of Local Courts are appointed by the Chamber of Advocates and Judges; Judges of Regional and Royal Courts are appointed by the Monarch.
- Judges can be impeached after a disciplinary action by the Chamber of Advocates and Judges.
- Judges are interpreting the law and with an exception of uncertain cases are not allowed to create it.
- Every trial shall be public except for matters concerning the security of state.
- All participants of the trial have the same rights.
- Right of appellation is guaranteed by the Constitution and specified by law.
- Right of just trial is guaranteed.
- Jury of peers shall be present at any criminal trial.
Just in case - The Chamber of Advocates and Judges should be a body made from every Judge/Advocate with a mandatory membership. That belongs to a law, not to a constitution, though.
I would also like to withdraw both of my proposals - the republican constitution and the legislature.
This is an excellent idea the Head of Government appointing judges! Oh boy next thing your going to tell me is that the government is too be made of only wallonians or god forbid the french! The most politically motivated man should not have first hoice ever at making appointments at best he may confirm or deny with limitations but, this proposal goes to far and if ratified then this county is no place for respectable people [flemings].
- Fabian van de Velde, Count of Ypres
EDIT: I'm sorry sir, i thought this was adressed to me. Next time, I'll pay more attention to the convention than to that damn newspaper.
This proposal is very good. It does an excellent job of compromising between liberal and conservative wishes, ensures judicial independence, and provides a well developed outline for the judicial branch, something other proposals lacked. I commend your initiative, and offer support for this proposal.
Delegate from Liège, Michel Daret
Thank you Mr. Daret.
I would like to ask the convention for seconds so this article may go to the voting.
I would like to ask the convention for seconds so this article may go to the voting.
I will continue supporting the proposal by seconding it.
Delegate from Liège, Michel Daret
((I've been getting a few questions about when we're going to be voting on the selection of the Monarch. I intended to vote on it with everything else at the end of the convention, but I suppose if you really want we can call it to a vote now.))
So be it.
Player Actions Needed:
In addition to the outstanding votes on the [post=15784461]Loewen Parliament Proposal - Ninth Revision[/post], the [post=15786315]Belgian Citizenship Provision V3[/post], the [post=15786225]Joint Bill of Rights V4[/post], and the [post=15785067]De Velde Provision for the Incapability of the Monarch[/post]:
[post=15788523]De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary[/post] is now being voted on.
Sample Ballot:
Loewen Parliament Proposal: Yes/No/Abstain
Belgian Citizenship Provision: Yes/No/Abstain
Joint Bill of Rights V4: Yes/No/Abstain
De Velde Provision for the Incapability of the Monarch: Yes/No/Abstain
De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary: Yes/No/Abstain
Voting on this item will close two days from now, at 8:00 PM PST 7/16/13 (3:00 AM GMT 7/17, or thereabouts).
So be it.
Player Actions Needed:
In addition to the outstanding votes on the [post=15784461]Loewen Parliament Proposal - Ninth Revision[/post], the [post=15786315]Belgian Citizenship Provision V3[/post], the [post=15786225]Joint Bill of Rights V4[/post], and the [post=15785067]De Velde Provision for the Incapability of the Monarch[/post]:
[post=15788523]De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary[/post] is now being voted on.
Sample Ballot:
Loewen Parliament Proposal: Yes/No/Abstain
Belgian Citizenship Provision: Yes/No/Abstain
Joint Bill of Rights V4: Yes/No/Abstain
De Velde Provision for the Incapability of the Monarch: Yes/No/Abstain
De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary: Yes/No/Abstain
Voting on this item will close two days from now, at 8:00 PM PST 7/16/13 (3:00 AM GMT 7/17, or thereabouts).
De Velde Provision for the Incapability of the Monarch: Yes
De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary: Yes
Delegate from Liège, Michel Daret
De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary: Yes
Delegate from Liège, Michel Daret
I, too, support Monseiur de Graaf's excellent proposal. My only suggestion is that the Prime Minister appoint justices with monarchical consent instead of vice versa, but I understand that that would infuriate many of our colleagues.
And as for our erstwhile Russian friend, gentlemen, I would say that the expression "give him enough rope and he'll hang himself" has never been more valid.
And as for our erstwhile Russian friend, gentlemen, I would say that the expression "give him enough rope and he'll hang himself" has never been more valid.
Belgian Citizenship: Aye
Joint Bill of Rights: Aye
Incapability of the Monarch: Nay
De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary: Abstain
~ Sébastien Delcroix, Bishop of Brabant
Joint Bill of Rights: Aye
Incapability of the Monarch: Nay
De Graaf's Proposal Regarding the Judiciary: Abstain
~ Sébastien Delcroix, Bishop of Brabant