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Terraferma

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Secularism Amendment: Abstain
Mandate of the African Federation: Abstain
Colonial Bill of Rights: Yes
Referendum on the Monarchy: No
Elected Senate Amendment: Abstain

[LDP]
 

sealy300

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Secularism Amendment: Yes
Mandate of the African Federation: Yes
Colonial Bill of Rights: Yes
Referendum on the Monarchy: Yes
Elected Senate Amendment: Yes

This nation needs reform, and i will bring it to them.

[BSU]

Jean di Picarde
 

Marschalk

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A message from Alexandre de Lannoy, Duke of Anjou-Brienne, to His Majesty Prosper-August, the King of Belgians

Your august Majesty,

I want to inform my sovereign that Jean de St-Sebastien, the Baron of Harfleur, is finishing his public career. Being one of the signatories of the Constitution, serving in six consequent Belgian cabinets and leading one of them, he is cleary one of the most notable statesmen of the modern times. Currently he is ninety-two, having been holding offices of state for sixty rears. I want to ask Your Majesty to grant the Baron of Harfleur a Senatorial position. I believe that our upper chamber would benefit from his experience.

Your must humble servant,
Alexandre de Lannoy, Duke of Anjou-Brienne
 
Last edited:

viola

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Secularism Amendment: Yes
Mandate of the African Federation: Yes
Colonial Bill of Rights: Yes
Referendum on the Monarchy: YES
Elected Senate Amendment: YES
[BSU]

I can only bitterly denounce the anti-democratic and anti-popular attitude of the opposition, which is denying a fair, just and completely legitimate Referendum, which is denying our people their right to freely choose their form of government, and which is shamelessly trying to stop any reformist proposal and keep our country blocked into a Paternalistic pseudo-Democracy.
Even the so called "Moderate" Liberals have now evidently sold their souls to the Conservative cause and, not only they are refusing to give the Belgian people their just Referendum, but are even refusing to reform in any way whatsoever that Feudalistic, Authoritarian and Conservative-biased cesspit the is the Senate, utterly betraying their very electoral promises!

The continued refusal to hold the Referendum is but the ultimate proofs of an increasingly unpopular Monarchy which the Belgian people do not want nor desire, and that is unjustly imposed upon the nation without any kind of popular support. If the Monarchist supporters were convinced to have any form of popular support they would have supported the Referendum, but of course they already know what the results would have been and are now trying to escape the harsh reality of Democracy.

- Carl Coppens, Socialist Deputy
 

Gen. Marshall

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((Do not edit old ballots to change your vote. (Looking at you, Marschalk, I saw that!)))

(('T seems I escaped the gauntlet? ;)))

Andrei, why abstain on the matter of a referendum? What does our Monarchist electorate have to gain with a referendum? All this will do is shift such an important decision from the hands of a qualified 2/3rds parliamentary majority to the whims of only half a crowd. As fellow Monarchists, we should vote against.

- Max
 

Somberg

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Secularism Amendment: Aye
Mandate of the African Federation: Aye
Colonial Bill of Rights: Aye
Referendum on the Monarchy: Aye
Elected Senate Amendment: Aye

[BSU]


~ Christiaan Loewen, Minister of Justice and Deputy for Antwerp
 

theAhawk

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mhlx.png


His Grace, the Duke of Benin, died this afternoon at the King Prosper-Louis Hospital, Brussels due to complications in surgery. The estate is making preparations for the funeral. His eldest daughter, Adélaïde d'Assche, shall succeed him as 3rd Duchess of Benin and Baroness de Guma.

---

LibDem_zps7f2c84f4.png


The Liberal Democratic Party's Executive Committee wishes to send their condolences to the family of the late Duke of Benin in this difficult time. We also wish to invite the Honourable Jules Van der Wyngaert to accept the party's Chairmanship until the next formal party conference.
 

sealy300

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My deepest condolences towards the duke's family, he has served this nation well, and I hope that his daughter lives long and respects her father's legacy.

Jean di Picardie, Deputy for Artois. ((make good cidré))
 

DensleyBlair

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I read your book, Mister Wyangert, and I enjoyed it. The prose was vivid and the story was entertaining.

Why would "meddling" with Spain be beneficial? Well, the more friends we have, the better position we will be in.

This new-found isolation from the right baffles me. It was perfectly acceptable to meddle in African affairs by conquering them at gunpoint (and look where that got us). And it was perfectly acceptable to meddle in Dutch affairs by annexing them in all but name.

De Leeuw's plan is nothing like those heavy handed exercises. He wants Belgium to be on good terms with Spain and help guide them on the right path. There's nothing wrong with a friend when we are surrounded by enemies. I understand your point about being "caught" in alliances, but the reality is that Europe is run by imperialist dogs who will snatch at the chance to swallow us up, as our own history has shown us time and time again. It can't hurt to have more friends. Besides, de Leeuw is not even proposing a formal alliance with Spain.

I take your criticism of me as a "cynic" as a compliment, for there is every reason to be cynical in today's world. But it does make me laugh to be called a cynic when the right complains about every little move any socialist makes. And can I really be called a cynic when the right believes that those who do not belong to their social class or have a different skin color are biologically inferior to them? I also love the former (or current) Beauffortists who nearly destroyed this nation and who openly support the suppression and defecto slavery of the African people calling me a deranged criminal.

Thank you for your kind words about my book. Hopefully you will find it as interesting politically as you do literarily.

I must ask, though; you say influencing Spain would put us in a better position. Might I ask what for? War is the only thing that springs to my mind.

As for your insinuations that my views are somehow hypocritical because I didn't intervene when we were meddling in Africa, I was not around during our colonialism boom. Neither am I "the right" (and your insistence of such is growing tiresome). I assure you, I would have preached caution with colonialism as I have here.

Also, I did not suggest M. de Leeuw was proposing a formal alliance, but there is a difference with organising a détente (which was, in fact, a policy of mine when I was at the Foreign Office) and "bringing democracy", which implies an active interest in changing their state. This goes a bit further than increasing relations, don't you think? I still fail to see how one could perceive your plans as anything other than actively trying to change their government, which would certainly carry implications.

Further, opposition and cynicism are very different things. Feel free to take it as a compliment, M. Dupointe, but the fact that cynicism is often detrimental outside of satirists' studies. To illustrate the difference, my "complaining" about the government's policies is a critique to highlight what I perceive to be aspects or omissions that could be detrimental to Belgium. I therefore wish to try my best to rectify this. I am not criticising any "mistakes". You meanwhile, M. Dupointe, actively promote stereotypes about all conservatives (and liberals, in sme cases) and lambast everything they do – whether grounded in truth or not – without providing any reasoned counter-arguments outside of scaremongering mentions of Beauffortism and populist denunciation of the opposition. Yes, this is, to an extent, your job, being a member of what is, I will admit, a government operating in adverse conditions, but being in power does not entitle one to some sort of membership card which means one doesn't have to reason anymore.

It has also come to my attention that my earlier ballot was void. I apologise for the oversight; I must have messed it up in my hurry to leave to see my father this morning. It is quite serendipitous, however, as I did mean to amend it in any case. Therefore:

Secularism Amendment: Abstain
Mandate of the African Federation: Abstain

While I commend the idea, there are some aspects with which I cannot agree – notably the republican articles. I propose that any consideration of an African Federation is delayed until after any referenda on the monarchy that may be held have been completed.

Colonial Bill of Rights: Aye
Referendum on the Monarchy: Aye

I admire Prime Minister Savarin for his attempts to convert His Grace the Duke of Anjou to a more open way of thinking. I do place confidence in the fact that a monarchy is desired, and therefore feel that blocking a referendum from occurring would be madness and give off the wring impressions – namely, that the monarchist interest in Parliament are worried that any result would be unfavourable. I therefore feel we should be done with any argument that has dragged on for far too long and get an answer.

Elected Senate Amendment: Nay

[LDP]

I am also deeply saddened to hear of the death of my respected colleague and friend the Duke of Benin. He will be sorely missed by both the party and, no doubt, Belgium at large. To that end, I accept interim chairmanship of the party.

The Hon. J. B. H. Van der Wyngaert
Acting Chairman of the Liberal Democrat Party
 

Dyranum

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((Voting as the Kaasists* here))

Secularism Amendment: Yes
Mandate of the African Federation: No, the structuring and wording is too poor for a legal document.
Colonial Bill of Rights: Yes, though it should be slightly re-structured
Referendum on the Monarchy: Yes
Elected Senate Amendment: Yes

[BSU]

((*Kaasists meaning people who base their ideology on/are heavily influenced by Houdt van Kaas Hakkihäälinen, former deputy, now...working as a lawyer of some kind. Maybe judge? :p))
 
Last edited:

DensleyBlair

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((Voting as the Kaasists* here))

((*Kaasists meaning people who base their ideology on/are heavily influenced by Houdt van Kaas Hakkihäälinen, former deputy, now...working as a lawyer of some kind.))

((I thought they were called "pedants"? :p))
 

Andre Massena

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Thank you for your kind words about my book. Hopefully you will find it as interesting politically as you do literarily.

I must ask, though; you say influencing Spain would put us in a better position. Might I ask what for? War is the only thing that springs to my mind.

As for your insinuations that my views are somehow hypocritical because I didn't intervene when we were meddling in Africa, I was not around during our colonialism boom. Neither am I "the right" (and your insistence of such is growing tiresome). I assure you, I would have preached caution with colonialism as I have here.

Also, I did not suggest M. de Leeuw was proposing a formal alliance, but there is a difference with organising a détente (which was, in fact, a policy of mine when I was at the Foreign Office) and "bringing democracy", which implies an active interest in changing their state. This goes a bit further than increasing relations, don't you think? I still fail to see how one could perceive your plans as anything other than actively trying to change their government, which would certainly carry implications.

Further, opposition and cynicism are very different things. Feel free to take it as a compliment, M. Dupointe, but the fact that cynicism is often detrimental outside of satirists' studies. To illustrate the difference, my "complaining" about the government's policies is a critique to highlight what I perceive to be aspects or omissions that could be detrimental to Belgium. I therefore wish to try my best to rectify this. I am not criticising any "mistakes". You meanwhile, M. Dupointe, actively promote stereotypes about all conservatives (and liberals, in sme cases) and lambast everything they do – whether grounded in truth or not – without providing any reasoned counter-arguments outside of scaremongering mentions of Beauffortism and populist denunciation of the opposition. Yes, this is, to an extent, your job, being a member of what is, I will admit, a government operating in adverse conditions, but being in power does not entitle one to some sort of membership card which means one doesn't have to reason anymore.

It has also come to my attention that my earlier ballot was void. I apologise for the oversight; I must have messed it up in my hurry to leave to see my father this morning. It is quite serendipitous, however, as I did mean to amend it in any case. Therefore:

Secularism Amendment: Abstain
Mandate of the African Federation: Abstain

While I commend the idea, there are some aspects with which I cannot agree – notably the republican articles. I propose that any consideration of an African Federation is delayed until after any referenda on the monarchy that may be held have been completed.

Colonial Bill of Rights: Aye
Referendum on the Monarchy: Aye

I admire Prime Minister Savarin for his attempts to convert His Grace the Duke of Anjou to a more open way of thinking. I do place confidence in the fact that a monarchy is desired, and therefore feel that blocking a referendum from occurring would be madness and give off the wring impressions – namely, that the monarchist interest in Parliament are worried that any result would be unfavourable. I therefore feel we should be done with any argument that has dragged on for far too long and get an answer.

Elected Senate Amendment: Nay

[LDP]

I am also deeply saddened to hear of the death of my respected colleague and friend the Duke of Benin. He will be sorely missed by both the party and, no doubt, Belgium at large. To that end, I accept interim chairmanship of the party.

The Hon. J. B. H. Van der Wyngaert
Acting Chairman of the Liberal Democrat Party

Dear Wyaengert, most of my denunciations were aimed at members of the Regalist Union. I realize that you do not entirely share their views on many issues.
 

Dyranum

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((I thought they were called "pedants"? :p))

((That's one way to describe them. Other terms would be "red tapists" or "Mysteriously British". ;)))
 

Marschalk

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The idea of referendum is just a ruse of the radical government, aimed at dodging the constitutional norms, that they try to conduct on condtions and at the time most comfortable for them. More that that, it is completely clear that it only would cause internal strifes and deep division between our populace, if, say, this or that decision is made by a slim margin, not a qualified supermajority - instead of solving the problem, as some claim. More that that, it places the supreme powers to change our Constitution, without consultations with the people and parliament, into the hands of so-called provisional government, which is contrary to even most basic democratic standards that NDP and partners claim to defend.. More that that, it does not set the ways and methods of impartial organization and control of this "referendum", сlearly turning it into a plaything of the current government. The results of such a referendum will neither be trusted nor respected by a large segment of the populace.

A good monarchist and a person respecting our constitution and laws, as well as internal peace in Belgium, cannot, I believe, see anything good in this dubious and badly writtent proposal of the Savarin cabinet. You should not joke with matters of national importance.

- Alexandre de Lannoy, Duke of Anjou-Brienne, Deputy for Spa
 
Last edited:

ThunderHawk3

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((Tally here.))

RU: [45]

Secularism Amendment: 0/4/0 [0, 45, 0]
Mandate of the African Federation: 0/4/0 [0, 45, 0]
Colonial Bill of Rights: 0/4/0 [0, 45, 0]
Referendum on the Monarchy: 0/4/0 [0, 45, 0]
Elected Senate Amendment: 0/4/0 [0, 45, 0]

BSU: [59]

Secularism Amendment: 8/0/0 [59, 0, 0]
Mandate of the African Federation: 7/1/0 [51, 7, 1]
Colonial Bill of Rights: 8/0/0 [59, 0, 0]
Referendum on the Monarchy: 8/0/0 [59, 0, 0]
Elected Senate Amendment: 8/0/0 [59, 0, 0]

NDP: [39]

Secularism Amendment: 2/0/0 [39, 0, 0]
Mandate of the African Federation: 2/0/0 [39, 0, 0]
Colonial Bill of Rights: 2/0/0 [39, 0, 0]
Referendum on the Monarchy: 2/0/0 [39, 0, 0]
Elected Senate Amendment: 2/0/0 [39, 0, 0]

GLP: [32]

Secularism Amendment: 2/0/1 [21, 0, 11]
Mandate of the African Federation: 1/1/1 [10, 10, 12]
Colonial Bill of Rights: 2/1/0 [21, 10, 1]
Referendum on the Monarchy: 1/1/1 [10, 10, 12]
Elected Senate Amendment: 1/2/0 [10, 21, 1]

LDP: [19]

Secularism Amendment: 1/0/2 [6, 0, 13]
Mandate of the African Federation: 0/0/3 [0, 0, 19]
Colonial Bill of Rights: 3/0/0 [19, 0, 0]
Referendum on the Monarchy: 1/2/0 [6, 12, 1]
Elected Senate Amendment: 0/2/1 [0, 12, 7]

BCU: [6] (Functionally abstaining)

Totals:
Secularism Amendment: 13/4/3 [125, 45, 30]
Mandate of the African Federation: 10/6/4 [100, 62, 38]
Colonial Bill of Rights: 15/5/0 [138, 55, 7]
Referendum on the Monarchy: 12/7/1 [114, 67, 19]
Elected Senate Amendment: 11/8/1 [108, 78, 14]
 

Davout

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Secularism Amendment: Yes
Mandate of the African Federation: Yes
Colonial Bill of Rights: Yes
Referendum on the Monarchy: Yes
Elected Senate Amendment: Yes

I have asked my Head of Department, Jacques Henri, to review whether the funds proposed by the Finance Ministry will be sufficient for all industries or whether there will be a need for prioritising. I shall report back to the Chamber once I have received the Ministry's analysis.

Frederic Burke
Minister for Commerce
BSU
 

viola

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The idea of referendum is just a ruse of the radical government, aimed at dodging the constitutional norms, that they try to conduct on condtions and at the time most comfortable for them. More that that, it is completely clear that it only would cause internal strifes and deep division between our populace, if, say, this or that decision is made by a slim margin, not a qualified supermajority - instead of solving the problem, as some claim. More that that, it places the supreme powers to change our Constitution, without consultations with the people and parliament, into the hands of so-called provisional government, which is contrary to even most basic democratic standards that NDP and partners claim to defend.. More that that, it does not set the ways and methods of impartial organization and control of this "referendum", сlearly turning it into a plaything of the current government. The results of such a referendum will neither be trusted nor respected by a large segment of the populace.

A good monarchist and a person respecting our constitution and laws, as well as internal peace in Belgium, cannot, I believe, see anything good in this dubious and badly writtent proposal of the Savarin cabinet. You should not joke with matters of national importance.

- Alexandre de Lannoy, Duke of Anjou-Brienne, Deputy for Spa
A brief speech from Carl Coppens during the parliamentary vote on the Referendum:


From the last declarations of the Conservatives I can hear only fear and poor excuses: they fear this Referendum as they know that the majority of the Belgian people already supports a Republic and therefore are trying everything to stop the Referendum from happening.

This is obvious, if the Conservatives truly believed that their dear Monarchy could have won against the Republic they would have used the Referendum to crush the Republican movement in Belgium directly at the polls, but they didn't do so as they already knew the truth: the Belgian people doesn't want a Monarchy, the Republicans outnumber the Monarchists and the current attempt to block the Referendum only confirm this fact.

I will ask the Conservatives this simple question again: if you truly believe that the majority of the Belgian people supports the Monarchy then why you are so evidently scared of the Referendum? Why aren't you using it to prove that we, the Republicans, are in the minority? Why are you so stubbornly opposed to it?
The answer is more and more evident, the Republic would win that Referendum and the Conservatives know it.
The refusal to hold the Referendum is an attempt to stop the clear will of the Belgian people. It's anti-Democratic and pathetic.

- Carl Coppens, Socialist Deputy
 

99KingHigh

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Secularism Amendment: Nay
Mandate of the African Federation: Nay
Colonial Bill of Rights: Nay
Referendum on the Monarchy: Nay
Elected Senate Amendment: Nay


[RU]