Edge of Europe - A Belgian Interactive AAR

[Keperry]

While I have some reservations about it, I support Marquis de Merode's proposal on the structure of the executive branch. It seems to be a fair compromise between liberal and conservative ideals.

I will absolutely reject any attempt to restrict or stratify the government based on class and as such I oppose Mr. Vanderhoof's proposals in the strongest possible terms. I will also reject any proposal that reserves space in the legislature for the clergy. If the people wish to be governed by clergymen, aristocrats, businessmen, or their peers, then they will vote for them, and there is no other legitimate source of power.

 

[Dadarian]

((Dadarian, in the Monarchy part, section VIII says that the Chancilor can abolish the family. Is this supposed to say Monarchy?))

((Yes it is, thank you and edited))

I look toward the more liberal elements of this convention to ask, does the clergy need a greater role in the Belgian Government?

And to Monsieur de Graaf, my proposal is a work of compromise between the desire of the left, right, up and down. The First Estate has definitive powers, as do the Second and Third Estates.

And towards your observations of the ambiguity. I simply say that this is a plan for the structure of government, not for its operation. If we are too rigid in our government, any change will destroy it.

My proposal allows us to have a more fluid government while at the same time defining what is and isn't between the estates.

 

[Harpsichord]

I look toward the more liberal elements of this convention to ask, does the clergy need a greater role in the Belgian Government?

No.

 

[G.K.]

For times of emergency, we will surely need some kind of martial law. To ensure that this martial law is used properly and will not result in a dictatorship, I present the following Article to the Convention:

Mr. Van Brabant,

I am in favour of Your idea of Martial law in general. However, I would advise You to wait until the three major powers are set. Bear in mind that martial law, while sometimes necessary, is still rather dangerous element that calls for abuse unless those who have the special powers You described are subjected to a detailed system of control. Especially the legislature and judiciary are needed for this. So let's wait until the end of Convention, where all of us will have time to further improve the Constitution, which would, hopefully, have a solid base by the time.

Then, we might discuss all details, which, as other honorable gentlemen have already pointed out, have their flaws, too.

Martin de Graaf, Delegate for Bruges

 

[unmerged(718634)]

((Yes it is, thank you and edited))

I look toward the more liberal elements of this convention to ask, does the clergy need a greater role in the Belgian Government?

If they wish to run for certain positions, then yes, but they need not be ensured positions. If God is on their side then they shall win.

Pierre-Claude de España, Delegate of Arlon

 

[etranger01]

I thank Monsieur Daret for his support and for his excellent work as one of the leaders of our great national discussion. I am glad that we can work together and establish a sensible compromise for both liberals and conservatives alike.

Given Monsieur Daret's support, as well as that from several other delegates, I hereby request that my proposal regarding the executive branch be brought to a vote. I encourage my fellow Belgians to support my proposal, as I believe it is the only viable method of ensuring stable, representative governance by a national executive.

Adrian Felix de Merode, Marquis of Westerlo

 

[jeeshadow]

I thank Monsieur Daret for his support and for his excellent work as one of the leaders of our great national discussion. I am glad that we can work together and establish a sensible compromise for both liberals and conservatives alike.

Given Monsieur Daret's support, as well as that from several other delegates, I hereby request that my proposal regarding the executive branch be brought to a vote. I encourage my fellow Belgians to support my proposal, as I believe it is the only viable method of ensuring stable, representative governance by a national executive.

Adrian Felix de Merode, Marquis of Westerlo

I would like to Second this proposal. It is fair to both the Monarchists, and the more Liberal parts of this Congress. This should be what our Executive part of government is based on.

 

[Plutonium95]

I will take this opportunity to declare my support for for the de Merode Executive Proposal. It is a fair proposal, and the fact that it was forged through compromise between the Liberals and Monarchists is a good sign for the future of our nation.

Delegate from Liège, Michel Daret

 

[G.K.]

Mr. Vandenhoof, while I applaud Your aim for compromise, I fail to understand how any republican or even moderate constitutional monarchist could ever support a government with aristocratic chancellor, aristocratic Upper House (Not to regard the horrendous insult to all enlightened ideas of humanity, which is calling it "General Estates". That sets us back before Glorious year 1789 to the times of dark absolutism!) and aristocratic Monarch de facto ruling the country themselves.

Mr. de Merode, Your work on the proposal (I believe this is the final version?) on executive inspires us all. You have acheived a decent compromise, which is mostly acceptable even for a devout Republican I have always been. And so, while I still doubt the legitimtiy of Monarchy and while I still disapprove the idea of Catholicism being mandatory for the monarch, I would still like to express my support to You and Your work.

Martin de Graaf, Delegate for Bruges

 

[Dadarian]

The Chancellor need not be aristocratic, he can be from any estate, not just the First. And te First Estate is smaller then most of the Upper House purposals given in this convention.

 

[unmerged(718634)]

I also lend my support to the Executive Proposal of Monsieur de Merode.

Pierre-Claude de España, Delegate of Arlon

 

[Somberg]

With the withdrawal of Meneer Daret's proposal I will support Meneer de Merode's Executive Proposal. It is a proposal I can very much accept and is a reasonable compromise between the liberals and conservatives.

~ Willem Loewen, Mayor of and Delegate from Antwerp

 

[Plutonium95]

Since we have a proposal that enjoys wide support, should we also vote for the person we wish to invite to be our king today?

Delegate from Liège, Michel Daret

 

[ThunderHawk3]

The Language Article has passed with the unanimous consent of the chamber and has become part of the Constitution.

I thank Monsieur Daret for his support and for his excellent work as one of the leaders of our great national discussion. I am glad that we can work together and establish a sensible compromise for both liberals and conservatives alike.

Given Monsieur Daret's support, as well as that from several other delegates, I hereby request that my proposal regarding the executive branch be brought to a vote. I encourage my fellow Belgians to support my proposal, as I believe it is the only viable method of ensuring stable, representative governance by a national executive.

Adrian Felix de Merode, Marquis of Westerlo

I see that you have received the necessary second. So be it.

Player Actions Needed:
In addition to the outstanding vote on the Structure of Government Act (the other act having been withdrawn):

The [post=15775423]Merode Executive proposal[/post] is now up for a vote. I will count votes already cast and provide a running tally shortly.

Sample Ballot:

Structure of Government Act: Yes/No/Abstain

Merode Executive Proposal: Yes/No/Abstain

Voting on this proposal will close two days from now, at 6:00 PM PST 7/13/13 (1 AM 7/14 GMT, I believe).

 

[Fingon888]

Our two greatest options are Prince Louis of Orleans and Prince Leopold of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, correct? If I do not remember you must excuse me. My knowledge of French politics barely extends after Waterloo, God rest the souls of my friends who did not make it. I am also not well versed in German nobility either.

Merode Executive Proposal: Aye

 

[Dadarian]

Merode Executive Article: Aye

I enjoy the compromise of this article. Just like my article.

 

[Noco19]

I am glad to see real progress and cooperation amongst ourselves in de Merode's proposal. May it continue, God-Willing.

Merode Executive Proposal: Aye

- Bishop van Buskirk

 

[Davout]

On the basis of M. Daret's endorsement, I vote:

Merode Executive Proposal - Aye

 

[ThunderHawk3]

Here are the tallies as they stand. The Language Act has received the unanimous consent of the convention and has already passed without objection.

The De España-Van der Wyngaert Joint Legislative Article has been retracted, while the [post=15775423]Merode Executive Proposal as revised[/post] is now being voted on.

Structure of Government Act:
Yes: 17
No: 4
Abstain: 0

Merode Executive Proposal: ((Votes made after the second have been counted))
Yes: 7
No: 0
Abstain: 0

Here are the day 2 proposals currently on the table. The legislative day will end in about two and a half hours. At that time, the topic of the day will change to the legislature. All these proposals will be voted on at the end of the convention as per convention rules.

Spoiler

[post=15772346]Lévesque Article Concerning the Establishment of the Belgian Crown[/post]

[post=15772497]Delcroix List of Candidates for the Belgium Throne[/post]

[post=15773662]The Verxanellmes Statute[/post]

[post=15774728]Steinbeck-Antonov Nomination[/post]

[post=15774973]Van Cock Article on Head of State and Head of Government[/post]

[post=15776408]The Vanderhoof Structure of Government Proposal[/post] ((which I decided was topical because it is an alternative to legislation currently being voted on))

[post=15776486]Van Brabant Martial Law Article[/post]

 

[Dadarian]

((Thunderhawk, what about my 2 policies that weren't even discussed? Will they voted on too?))