Edge of Europe - A Belgian Interactive AAR

[Harpsichord]

I must say I am suprised by... such claims of my Honorable friend.

If you remember right, the true Senate opposed Beauffortian powergrab vehemently, this is why it took full year for him to replace it with cronies. Replace illegally, I must say, because the Constitution demanded that the half of the Senators should be royal-appointed and that the King should review the appointments of the PM. And he subdued the chamber of deputies in a much more easy way, I think. In fact, the coup was a result of too much power being given to an elected official – like the power to control the appointments of the generals. The conservatives opposed these things already in the time of van Brabant, saying that it should be only the King – but the left wanted the Prime Minister to meddle even with these royal prerogatives, and here was the result. Also, I must note an interesting thing – it was the nonelected institution of the Crown that opposed the coup and played the crucial role in ptotecting democracy and legitimacy, not the lower house, whose creature and de-facto leader Beauffort was at the moment

Also, if you think it was the appointed nature of Senate that led to «manipulations» of Beauffort (also I would find this claim absurd, as I have said!), why don’t you demand that all state institutions should be elected? Your party has already said many times that you want to replace His Majesty with a President, claiming that his office is corrupt and illegitimate, since he is not elected by the masses. Lets go further and have popularly elected generals, civil servants and judges too then! Would not it correspond best with the National Democractic principles? Majority is everything, while quality is nothing.

(de Lannoy laughs)

- Сount Alexandre de Lannoy, Colonel of the Reserve, Minister of Interior

You equally surprise me sir, by stating views to be mine which I have never said. My father always believed the PM was too strong, a feeling which I also hold. While you liberally throw around such terms as the left and the right, my views on our system of government are non-partisan.

I also find that claim that " it was the appointed nature of Senate that led to «manipulations» of Beauffort " entirely bizarre, and I know of no evidence that would support such an argument. Perhaps you can tell me where you got the idea yourself? I don't think any member of the NDP has ever claimed the Monarchy to be illegitimate or corrupt, so again, I enquire where you have gained such ideas. The NDP has never supported tyranny of the majority, in fact we have always supported a strong and clear separation of powers within government. Perhaps you would do better in future to have even the minutest concept of that which you discuss.

 

[Marschalk]

You equally surprise me sir, by stating views to be mine which I have never said. My father always believed the PM was too strong, a feeling which I also hold. While you liberally throw around such terms as the left and the right, my views on our system of government are non-partisan.

I also find that claim that " it was the appointed nature of Senate that led to «manipulations» of Beauffort " entirely bizarre, and I know of no evidence that would support such an argument. Perhaps you can tell me where you got the idea yourself? I don't think any member of the NDP has ever claimed the Monarchy to be illegitimate or corrupt, so again, I enquire where you have gained such ideas. The NDP has never supported tyranny of the majority, in fact we have always supported a strong and clear separation of powers within government. Perhaps you would do better in future to have even the minutest concept of that which you discuss.

Sir, the statements of the NDP leading members attacking the institution of the monarchy in a most harsh way, due to the unelected nature of the royal office, were so numerous, that I do not even see any reason in quoting all of them here. You should look through parliamentary protocols, especially through the ones related to the times when anarcho-liberalism, your chosen ideology, emerged. Or at some recent quotes of your new crown prince, Pierre Savarin, that used such contemptous terms as "foolish" and "outdated", when he described our form of government. I must say that these expressions are still very moderate according to the standards of your party, for example, the father of your current leader, DeWitt Sr., defined our King as a "hereditary tyrant", and your previous leader Savarin said that we were "enslaved to him".

Regarding the Senate, you should express your views in a more clear fashion then, if you want the gentlemen of these chambers to understand them. You say that you are suprised that somebody wants to keep the appointed Senate, and remind about Beauffortian manipulations related to this Senate. Clearly then you try to connect the appointed nature of the Senate and the way Beauffort managed to get control over it in the end, with which I, as I have said, cannot agree.

- Count Alexandre de Lannoy, Colonel of the Reserve, Minister of Interior

 

[DensleyBlair]

((Incidentally, Mars, how are the interviews coming along? I do enjoy reading them! ))

 

[Plutonium95]

Sir, the statements of the NDP leading members attacking the institution of the monarchy in a most harsh way, due to the unelected nature of the royal office, were so numerous, that I do not even see any reason in quoting all of them here. You should look through parliamentary protocols, especially through the ones related to the times when anarcho-liberalism, your chosen ideology, emerged. Or at some recent quotes of your new crown prince, Pierre Savarin, that used such contemptous terms as "foolish" and "outdated", when he described our form of government. I must say that these expressions are still very moderate according to the standards of your party, for example, the father of your current leader, DeWitt Sr., defined our King as a "hereditary tyrant".

Regarding the Senate, you should express your views in a more clear fashion, if you wants the gentlemen of these chambers to understand them. You say that you are suprised that somebody wants to keep the appointed Senate, and remind about Beauffortian manipulations related to this Senate. Clearly then you try to connect the appointed nature of the Senate and the way Beauffort managed to get control over it in the end, with which I, as I have said, cannot agree.

- Count Alexandre de Lannoy, Colonel of the Reserve, Minister of Interior

Mr. de Lannoy, I can't imagine that this is anything but a bad joke. I am not my father, that much should be clear to everyone, but this is just embarrassing. Is there a particular reason you have dug up one of his comments from over twenty-five years ago to use out of context? He was pointing out the potential for a hereditary system to lead to tyranny, not that the government was at the time. I could point out examples of men in the Conservative League saying that only the wealthy should be able to vote, does that mean that the party solely exists to restrict voting rights? The NDP does have a history of republicanism, it is one of the policies that our deputies are elected on, but more than that the we are a party that supports liberty and freedom for everyone in Belgium.

 

[ThunderHawk3]

His Highness The Prince-Regent of Belgium, Pierre d'Arenberg​

(Excerpt from in person conversation with the Prime Minister and cabinet ministers)

"Gentlemen,

The recent election has distracted us somewhat from the ongoing developments in Africa. I understand our recent colonial expeditions in Sokoto, Benin, Yoruba, and Cameroon have provided much needed raw materials to our expanding markets and, as I believe the honorable Deputy Prime Minister will vouch, considerable income to the treasury. I have personally taken great interest in further exploration and colonization of the Dark Continent. Particularly, the areas in central Africa between Cameroon and the French protectorates have so far been untouched by the blessing of European civilization. By the way, it may interest you to learn that I have been elected the chair of the International African Association, a new organization with the intention of civilizing the Congo.

Perhaps with all the chaos of the recent election, you gentlemen have not heard, but I recently hosted a geographic conference, here in Brussels. A number of explorers and prominent figures were in attendance, and we have created an organization - the International African Association - with the express purpose of furthering much of the good humanitarian work already underway in Africa and continuing to spread the light of civilization. We are unanimously agreed that the Congo region, which remains under savage native rule, is a bastion for barbaric practices - slavery, piracy, and other atrocities. It is only a matter of time before someone, be it the British or the French or the Portuguese, occupy the area. However, I am happy to say that the Association has endorsed my plan to have Belgium colonize the Congo region, and is willing to provide funds and other aid for this purpose. Of course, while I would not wish to strong-arm the government into such a move if they believe it is against the national interest, I cannot imagine the Association will be willing to stand idle forever... and they might ultimately endorse another nation's efforts, or take action themselves... I do not want to risk losing a fine chance to secure for ourselves a slice of this magnificent African cake!"

Mission: Heart of Darkness, Part 1

Objective: Colonize the Congo.

Reward: Belgium will receive +10 prestige and +50 CP from the support of the International African Association. +25 (half) of this CP bonus has been given immediately to support the colonization effort. Additionally, the "Men For the Colonies!" (a highly beneficial event) will be triggered for each additional region of the Congo Free State that is colonized by Belgium in the next five years.

Penalty: Belgian naval modernization efforts will be slowed and either another nation will receive International African Association bonus or the Congo Free State will into existence as a puppet of a random European GP (Belgium is possible).

 

[Harpsichord]

Sir, the statements of the NDP leading members attacking the institution of the monarchy in a most harsh way, due to the unelected nature of the royal office, were so numerous, that I do not even see any reason in quoting all of them here. You should look through parliamentary protocols, especially through the ones related to the times when anarcho-liberalism, your chosen ideology, emerged. Or at some recent quotes of your new crown prince, Pierre Savarin, that used such contemptous terms as "foolish" and "outdated", when he described our form of government. I must say that these expressions are still very moderate according to the standards of your party, for example, the father of your current leader, DeWitt Sr., defined our King as a "hereditary tyrant", and your previous leader Savarin said that we were "enslaved to him".

Regarding the Senate, you should express your views in a more clear fashion then, if you want the gentlemen of these chambers to understand them. You say that you are suprised that somebody wants to keep the appointed Senate, and remind about Beauffortian manipulations related to this Senate. Clearly then you try to connect the appointed nature of the Senate and the way Beauffort managed to get control over it in the end, with which I, as I have said, cannot agree.

- Count Alexandre de Lannoy, Colonel of the Reserve, Minister of Interior

Ah. I had not realised that foolish and outdated were now synonyms for corrupt and illegitimate. I would be grateful if you would lend me your dictionary so that I may compare it with my own.

Regarding the Senate, I would not expect Representatives to put words in my mouth. It is self evident that if the Senate were not appointed, Beauffort would not have been able to appoint such members to allow him to dictate constitutional changes. That there is any question over this would astound me if it were from anyone else.

 

[jeeshadow]

Ah. I had not realised that foolish and outdated were now synonyms for corrupt and illegitimate. I would be grateful if you would lend me your dictionary so that I may compare it with my own.

Regarding the Senate, I would not expect Representatives to put words in my mouth. It is self evident that if the Senate were not appointed, Beauffort would not have been able to appoint such members to allow him to dictate constitutional changes. That there is any question over this would astound me if it were from anyone else.

The Senate is an important check on power in this government, and should stay that way.
-Pytor Aerts

 

[G.K.]

Jacques - Philippe stands up:

This is outrageous! Marquis de Beauffort was one of the few men who were brave enough to stand for morality, faith and honour when the dangers of socialism and republicanism started to strangle Belgium with their evil tentacles! I am honestly disappointed by many of you gentlemen, for the way you treat the memory of a man who sacrificed all he had for the good of our nation...

Also, Mr. Van Der Goltz is absolutely right. Conservative League got the mandate from Belgian people when it clearly won the general elections, and therefore should've got PM's office. I don't want to question Mr. Wolff's actions - there are very few things actually worth denouncing - but if Belgium shall be a democracy, let's respect the people's will, then.

Yet, as a former judge. I know for sure that the will of the people is not almighty and can't be trusted everytime. This is why our founding fathers - and you were among them, Mr. Wolff - chose to create appointed, nonpartisan Senate to supervise on our Chamber of Deputies, which is being dominated by the will of political parties. I can't really see any benefit of allowing partisanship or elections when it comes to the Upper House, I only see increase of political dominance over Belgium, lack of control over the Chamber of Deputies as the elections would generally have similar results and also diminishing the power of our King. Nonpartisan Senate appointed by the Monarch is common in many other monarchies and it was a major conservative victory in liberal-dominated Constitutional Convention, and every true conservative should defend it against the republican and socialist radicals.

 

[Harpsichord]

The Senate is an important check on power in this government, and should stay that way.
-Pytor Aerts

Of course.

 

[Thoctar]

I would like to announce I am appointing the previous Prime Minister Luc Poisson to a senatorial position.
Beauffort was murderous, dictatorial scum, that's all there is to it. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[theAhawk]

I thank the Prime Minister for his kind appointment, and I wish to give a warm welcome to all of the other members of the house, from whatever walk of life they may come from. This house is unique, and something to be proud of. It is a meritocratic success - I am not here by blood or by birth, but by my actions. Every member of this house has earned their place here through their labours and every member has something to contribute. Indeed, the broad base of knowledge and experience is perfect to allow for the sound revision of legislation. This chamber is not here to obstruct the provison of sensible government, as seems to be the case across the Atlantic, or to represent the wishes of a dying nobility, as can only be the case across the Channel - we are here to advise, revise and comprimise. Perhaps we could make the appointment of senators more transparent, I'll grant our critics that, but it would be a travesty if this house were abolished in favour of some ill thought-out attempt to elect every government official imaginable. The strengths of experience, meritocracy and fairness that are inherent here must not be allowed to be washed away, and I call on this house to oppose its own destruction. We are here to advise, revise and comprimise, but we are not here to be ignored.

~ Capt. Luc Poisson; Baron de Guma, Senator and former Prime Minister

 

[DensleyBlair]

A fine opening speech, Captain Poisson! I see retirement didn't soften your poltical nous.

Jean-François Van der Wyngaert, OPL MWO
Former Prime Minister of Belgium, Senator since 1851

 

[Marschalk]

I must applaud the speech of the respectable Baron of Guma. With his usual eloquence he quite fairly described the essence of this noble institution, our Senate, nonpartisan, meritocratic and professional. Any attempts to change its unique nature and turn this wise institution into an elected parrot of the lower house could cause great harm to our beloved Belgium.

- Count Alexandre de Lannoy, Colonel of the Reserve, Minister of Interior

 

[DensleyBlair]

Jean-Camille walks into the chambers one sunny morning with a short bill in hand.

The Naval Punishment Act​

• Flogging as a punishment within His Majesty's Royal Navy shall be abolished and made illegal, both during peacetime and wartime.
• All other forms of corporal punishment within HM's Royal Navy are to be abolished and made illegal, both during peacetime and wartime.
• All found to have acted in contravention of this Act shall be tried by a military tribunal.

 

[Thoctar]

I would also like to announce that we will be colonizing the Congo and other regions recommended by the colonizing society as soon as possible.
~Franz Ludwig Wolff, Prime Minister of Belgium

 

[Marschalk]

Count Alexandre de Lannoy stands up and adjusts his sabre. He, as always, wears his black reservist uniform and epaulets.

Gentlemen,

I would like to announce the policies of the Ministry of Interior for the next several years.

As before, we will be implementing the governmental programs aimed at education and qualification of clerks, executives, accountants and other intellectual workers in the two regions of continental Belgium. Our industry will benefit greatly, when we will be able to put an end to the lack of managers and other higher specialists.

Also, we will be starting a recruiting campaign in Yoruba States. In accordance with my orders, a Ministry of Interior inspector, Monsieur Jean Brentailles, has visited our colonial territories. He has discovered that many tribes of the Yoruba States, as well the populace of towns, contain a great number of able men of excellent physical condition and great soldierly qualities. The people of this land have old military traditions, the men of Yoruba States are proud to bear arms and are known for their bravery. I think that it is important to recruit such people into our army and train them. Not only it would strengthen our armed forces, but also will make the men of Yoruba States closer to us. It is known that the Royal Belgian Army is among one of the most progressive in the world. The soldiers receive basic education here, and each unit contains a chaplain ready to give them spiritual guidance. The colonial natives serving in our army will be taught our Christian and Western values, and later can become the basis of the civilized native class that would help us administer the colonies.

- Count Alexandre de Lannoy, Colonel of the Reserve, Minister of Interior

((IG encourage Clerks in Flanders and Wallonia, encourage Soldiers in Yoruba States))

 

[ThunderHawk3]

((Apologies. I couldn't post last night because of some strange problem with the forum.

I am a little unclear on what I am supposed to be calling a vote on here. I have two questions for the government, both of which Thoctar should answer directly. If he doesn't, the MoJ [DensleyBlair] can answer the first one.

1. Which reform are we voting on, if any? There are two possible upper house reforms we can enact, "Two Per State" - which would practically equalize the representation of Flanders and Wallonia and mandate the election of the senators rather than their appointment - and "Based on Population" - which would make Senate seats allocated in proportion to the population.

The only other two reforms we can presently pass are State-Controlled Trade Unions and Proportional Representation. None of them have movements that advocate them.

2. Are we voting on Dyranum's replacement/reorganization of the Constitution?))

 

[Marschalk]

((Uhm, I do think Thoctar has said what reform he wants to put a vote on yet. Do we consider "Proportional Representation" as keeping the appointed UH btw, or it is popularly elected too?

Also, TH, would Lord Regent comment on my nominations for awards?))

 

[Jako473]

Jacques - Philippe stands up:

This is outrageous! Marquis de Beauffort was one of the few men who were brave enough to stand for morality, faith and honour when the dangers of socialism and republicanism started to strangle Belgium with their evil tentacles! I am honestly disappointed by many of you gentlemen, for the way you treat the memory of a man who sacrificed all he had for the good of our nation...

Also, Mr. Van Der Goltz is absolutely right. Conservative League got the mandate from Belgian people when it clearly won the general elections, and therefore should've got PM's office. I don't want to question Mr. Wolff's actions - there are very few things actually worth denouncing - but if Belgium shall be a democracy, let's respect the people's will, then.

Yet, as a former judge. I know for sure that the will of the people is not almighty and can't be trusted everytime. This is why our founding fathers - and you were among them, Mr. Wolff - chose to create appointed, nonpartisan Senate to supervise on our Chamber of Deputies, which is being dominated by the will of political parties. I can't really see any benefit of allowing partisanship or elections when it comes to the Upper House, I only see increase of political dominance over Belgium, lack of control over the Chamber of Deputies as the elections would generally have similar results and also diminishing the power of our King. Nonpartisan Senate appointed by the Monarch is common in many other monarchies and it was a major conservative victory in liberal-dominated Constitutional Convention, and every true conservative should defend it against the republican and socialist radicals.

Also, Mr. Van Der Goltz is absolutely right. Conservative League got the mandate from Belgian people when it clearly won the general elections, and therefore should've got PM's office. I don't want to question Mr. Wolff's actions - there are very few things actually worth denouncing - but if Belgium shall be a democracy, let's respect the people's will, then.

Also, Mr. Van Der Goltz is absolutely right.

Mr. Van Der Goltz

Thank you for agreeing with me, herr Jacques - Philippe, however it is General Van Der Goltz.

-Lt General Arthur Van Der Goltz

 

[ThunderHawk3]

((Uhm, I do think Thoctar has said what reform he wants to put a vote on yet. Do we consider "Proportional Representation" as keeping the appointed UH btw, or it is popularly elected too?

Also, TH, would Lord Regent comment on my nominations for awards?))

((Proportional Representation applies only to the lower house. It keeps the UH appointed, just as D'Hondt did. Also, though I do miss things, I've only seen him talk generally about Senate reform, and I imagined he and Sirk would talk it over.

And yeah, I'll get to the nominations for the order of PL.))