Edge of Darkness [new version]

[Dr.Feel]

@Scarry_Barry Seems really excessive - I've never seen that big of a concentration. The Soviet Union definitely needs balancing in future patches.

@Dr.Feel Thank you! I don't build any aircraft or navy at all until the USSR falls and if I don't manage to do it by the middle of 1942, I'm probably out of oil the and the campaign is lost. Edit - I launch Barbarossa just as soon as I possibly can, which is just after the springtime mud clears up in 1941. I provide more detail in my write-up.

@KarlXI Thank you very much for the kind words. We're working on updates that should improve a lot of balancing issues that exist in the current patch as well.

Thanks again! So you basically ignore the Air component of the war and keep the planes grounded? That makes sense, the USSR has so many and taking air losses can insanely up the requirements to divert IC to reinforcement. Little question then, to keep the timetable with Barbarossa you need a speedy end to France, any tips on speeding that up? I always get bogged down after I've taken the Low Countries on the French border, even with a decent amount of aircraft including CAS it takes about 2-3 months to take them out.

 

[KarlXI]

Build a single line of INT (or two) from 1935 on, then upgrade just prior to Barbarossa. Although biplanes will do just fine against their bombers. This will net you about 14-20 INT, which you can use to focus on them.

Also, one tip for the speedy ending part.

As Japan, I managed to conquer Burma and India in 6-8 months. How? Encircle. Encircle. Encircle. Use ARM as spearhead, don't fight w/ them, maneuver them to pre-set areas and use infantry to close and "cook" the pockets. Never ever fight big AI troops concentrations (20+) unless absolutely necessary to encircle and then pick your fights carefully.

China fell after three years of constant fighting. They had 230+ or more divisions w/ them, versus some 92 of mine at the start. I "cooked" about 80% of that number, in several encirclement battles from near and around Qingdao to south, near Guangzhou.

Use your grunts to do the fighting. INF is cheap, plentiful (you need to build a lot of them to succeed in any theater), while your special troops (ARM, MOT, PAR) keep their precious organization and stay behind your line or the enemy's.

And Japs don't even have any ARM or MOT to boot. I only ever built CAV as them, but that advice is sound for any type of army - even the slower, infantry-centred ones. It's possible to get some decent encirclements if you know to lure the AI into putting their troops into an exposed position, doing some mild fighting, and then encircling them w/ your infantry.

Also Japs are good enough w/ a 9x12 line of INF up to 1938, then 6x34 from 1939 on, which will net you about 180 divisions by 1942.

For Germany, which has a way better industrial base than Japs, we're talking perhaps 12x12 line of INF or even more. Just make sure you can put up w/ a total of 290 divisions by Barbarossa, which is the historical number Germany had in total. That includes GAR and all other kinds of troops. That would be a good objective mark for ya, given that SU, just like China, is hard in this game. Just never neglect INF.

Don't forget to build TONS of HQ in order to maximimize the number of units you can employ. As Japan, I found this critical against numerically superior enemy forces. A single serial of HQ in the 30's is cheap and will net you about 5-7, but we're talking about every unit getting covered by at least a single HQ so more would be needed in Russia.

In order to tone down your IC burden, you can put lots of Semi-motorized CAV in your own units since they'll get the job done just as good, they just can't soak that many bullets as ARM.

 

[Rangergxi]

Thanks again! So you basically ignore the Air component of the war and keep the planes grounded? That makes sense, the USSR has so many and taking air losses can insanely up the requirements to divert IC to reinforcement. Little question then, to keep the timetable with Barbarossa you need a speedy end to France, any tips on speeding that up? I always get bogged down after I've taken the Low Countries on the French border, even with a decent amount of aircraft including CAS it takes about 2-3 months to take them out.

With France you just need to be aggressive. Just follow the historical plan and push through the Sedan to the coast with your armor to split the allied army in half for easy encirclement. Your objective is Paris. Take it quickly because you've basically won once you've taken it.

Cut off consumer goods to get a stockpile of supplies and to reinforce because there are events that cut dissent by 20 points.

 

[JJMerrill]

@Dr.Feel France puts up much more of a fight in this mod and can take a player by surprise. Karl's advice is good and generally what I follow as well. You have to try to break through and get to Paris which usually means you'll have to win one big battle against a French stack or push through Belgium and hit the coast before they can.

@KarlXI Unfortunately, the surrender events for USA/UK to Japan are relatively untouched from vanilla and thus still pretty bare. The respective events are taken from UK.txt and USA.txt from the events folder.

For the UK (note the change of a special event for GER, SOV/JAP/ITA are unchanged from vanilla) -

event = {
    id = 2001042 #conventional surrender
    random = no
    name = "uksur_name"
    desc = "130671_desc"
    style = 2
    picture = "news_paper"

    country = ENG

    trigger = {
        OR = {
            war = { country = ENG country = GER }
            war = { country = ENG country = SOV }
            war = { country = ENG country = JAP }
            war = { country = ENG country = ITA }
        }
        AND = {
            area = { area = "East England" country = -2 }
            area = { area = "West England" country = -2 }
            area = { area = "North England" country = -2 }
            area = { area = "South Scotland" country = -2 }
            control = { province = 29 data = -2 } #London
        }
    }

    date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1937 }
    offset = 7
    deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1963 }

    action = {
        trigger = {
            war = { country = ENG country = GER }
            area = { area = "East England" country = GER }
            area = { area = "West England" country = GER }
            area = { area = "North England" country = GER }
            area = { area = "South Scotland" country = GER }
        }
        name = "uksur_ger"
        ai_chance = 100
        command = { type = capital which = 2137 } #St. John's, Newfoundland
        command = { type = trigger which = 1000900 } ###Trigger custom EoD surrender event chain starting with 1000900###
    }
    action = {
        trigger = {
            war = { country = ENG country = SOV }
            area = { area = "East England" country = SOV }
            area = { area = "West England" country = SOV }
            area = { area = "North England" country = SOV }
            area = { area = "South Scotland" country = SOV }
        }
        name = "uksur_sov"
        ai_chance = 100
        command = { type = capital which = 2137 } #St. John's, Newfoundland
        command = { type = trigger which = 2007057 } #sov
    }
    action = {
        trigger = {
            war = { country = ENG country = JAP }
            area = { area = "East England" country = JAP }
            area = { area = "West England" country = JAP }
            area = { area = "North England" country = JAP }
            area = { area = "South Scotland" country = JAP }
        }
        name = "uksur_jap"
        ai_chance = 100
        command = { type = capital which = 1843 }
        command = { type = trigger which = 2011032 } #Jap
    }
    action = {
        trigger = {
            war = { country = ENG country = ITA }
            area = { area = "East England" country = ITA }
            area = { area = "West England" country = ITA }
            area = { area = "North England" country = ITA }
            area = { area = "South Scotland" country = ITA }
        }
        name = "uksur_ITA"
        ai_chance = 100
        command = { type = capital which = 2137 } #St. John's, Newfoundland
        command = {type = trigger which = 2006016 } #ITA
    }   
    action = {
        name = "ukno_sur"
        ai_chance = 0
        command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
    }
}

For the USA:

event = {
    id = 2049046
    random = no
    country = USA

    name = 130641_NAME
    desc = 130641_DESC
    style = 2
    picture = "news_paper"
  
    trigger = {
        war = { country = JAP country = USA }
        #area = { area = "Hawaii" country = JAP }      # Hawaii as staging point
        OR = {                                    # Major harbor on the west coast
            control = { province = 1886  data = JAP } #San Diego
            control = { province = 1887  data = JAP } #Los Angeles
            control = { province = 1889  data = JAP } #San Francisco
            control = { province = 1874  data = JAP } #Seattle
        }
        OR = {                                    # lost US soil, lower if the coutry gets nuked.
            lost_national = { country = USA value = 55 }
            AND =  {
                NOT = { nuked = 1 }
                nuked = { country = USA  data = -1 }
                lost_national = { country = USA value = 40 }
            }
            AND =  {
                NOT = { nuked = 1 }
                nuked = { country = USA  data = -2 }
                lost_national = { country = USA value = 23 }
            }
            AND =  {
                NOT = { nuked = 1 }
                nuked = { country = USA  data = -3 }
                lost_national = { country = USA value = 15 }
            }
        }
        random = 50
    }
  
    date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1936 } #1941 }
    offset = 1 #30
    deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1963 }

    action = {
        ai_chance = 80
        name = ACTION_NAME_YES
        command = { type = trigger which = 2011031 }
    }
    action = {
        ai_chance = 20
        name = 130640b
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 2011031 }
    }
}

 

[Dr.Feel]

[QUOTE="KarlXI[/QUOTE]

Fantastic information and a big thanks from me! This mod is a much greater challenge and my encirclement game is pretty weak to be fair so its tough curve but fun. So as you said, group ARM and used them to smash through the tough frontlines of enemy stacks and cut them off whilst using the INF to collapse the pocket?

Edit: How is the mod for playing as the USSR? Do Germany and perhaps the wAllies have good durrender events?

 

[KarlXI]

Fantastic information and a big thanks from me! This mod is a much greater challenge and my encirclement game is pretty weak to be fair so its tough curve but fun. So as you said, group ARM and used them to smash through the tough frontlines of enemy stacks and cut them off whilst using the INF to collapse the pocket?

Yeah, pretty much. You gotta learn how to destroy enemy divisions, and not just push them back. A very critical skill for Barbarossa, since if you just push them back, they'll just retreat through infinite russian expanses while regaining their ORG.

 

[KarlXI]

Also, I never bother with CAS. Build INT and TAC. INT keeps your troops safe, TAC (usually just a single serial or two is enough) will help with sapping enemy ORG. But that's it.

Try playing one of the "lesser" powers. Japan for instance has a smallish industrial base for what you need. The same thing goes for Italy or Nationalist China. This forces you to learn how to use your available IC in the best way possible, building what really matters for the war and using long serial lines instead of parallels. It's the hard way to learn, but once you start playing the "greater" powers (such as USSR), w/ tons of resources available, you'll find them a lot easier and you'll build and use your troops far more efficiently.

 

[Sacaros]

Hello,

It seems that version 2.1 download link (on the Facebook page) does not work:
https://mega.nz/#!FgR1AKbZ!ZYbEyHkoZ9aQzxKN8uOGiBZJp4wnLfLu1r4044rBLGc

I did play the mod in earlier version but never managed to "win" in any axis campaign. I would like to try again

 

[Hirz]

Please try this one: https://mega.nz/#!h8AW1ZRD!8Qe-ZkDPS-J5ejfEBWY9h0vfAAHrUYmSs01-issOa0o

 

[Black Ader]

I finally won Barbarossa ! It took several attempts but I'm quite proud now...key is indeed to forget airforces apart some units against France and build an insane amount of INF, + ARM and MOT and never stop encircling.

Few remarks/bug finding for this most excellent mod otherwise :

-Hitler is supposed to survive Elsner's bomb all the time on normal difficulty, but he was killed twice, albeit I was on normal.

-When I closed to Moscow, I had a message saying that Staline withdrawed from Moscow. The capital moved to Gorky. However, when I took Moscow, Staline HQ unit was there, and another message said that Staline is dead.

-After Stailne's death, HoS was Kalinin (plausible), and HoG was...Kerenski ! I'm pretty sure that he was exiled in USA at this time, and I can't imagine Kalinin, Beria and Malenkov recalling him to save USSR.

-Japan never launched attack on Pearl Harbor. I suppose that it is because they performed so bad in China (losing half of Manchuria) ? Something should really be done for Japan...

-Another miserable failure is Italy in northern Africa. But it is an old problem, and less annoying than Japan.

A final thought on Barbarossa : first month is decisive. If I fail on primary encirclement, I will soon be pushed back to Poland. But on the other hand, if my early stage is victorious, I will be safe more or less untill the end. I didn't took Moscow to taste the russian winter, but it was frankly quite calm, and 1942 wasn't really a challenge.

I wonder if Great Patriotic War speech couldn't act like German mobilization ? Let's say a first wave of free units and IC bonus after 60 days, another after 180 days...and so on. Early Barbarossa should be a little bit less difficult, but next months would prove more challenging.

For those who rush to Moscow, an extra event could bring some free divisions if german player is near Moscow, to simulate arrival of siberian divisions ?

Let me be clear : I don't say that Barbarossa is too easy. I needed to try it maybe 10 times. It is just that its difficulty is concentrated on 2 or 3 first months, it is incredibly hard to perform as good as historic Germany, but if you do, Soviet is unable to trun the tide.

 

[Colt556]

There were no Siberian divisions that saved Moscow in 1941. That's just a myth. The rescue of Moscow lies in a massive number of newly mobilised and deployed divisions and brigades. The Soviet land model shows that 182 rifle divisions, 43 militia rifle divisions, eight tank divisions, three mechanised divisions, 62 tank brigades, 50 cavalry divisions, 55 rifle brigades, 21 naval rifle brigades, 11 naval infantry brigades, 41 armies, 11 fronts and a multitude of other units were newly Mobilised and Deployed (MD) in the second half of 1941 (only deployed; not deployed units would make that list even bigger). The Soviet lives thrown into the meatgrinder are, once again, the true reason why the front held around Moscow. It's not because of some pre-Barbarossa divisions transferred to the west or mostly mythical Siberian divisions that arrived in the droves.

 

[Melchisedek]

Hi there

And Japs don't even have any ARM or MOT to boot. I only ever built CAV as them, but that advice is sound for any type of army - even the slower, infantry-centred ones. It's possible to get some decent encirclements if you know to lure the AI into putting their troops into an exposed position, doing some mild fighting, and then encircling them w/ your infantry.

Also Japs are good enough w/ a 9x12 line of INF up to 1938, then 6x34 from 1939 on, which will net you about 180 divisions by 1942.

After a lot of games with germany I wish to give the Japan a try. Please, could you elaborate a bit the production strategy from start? (IC. mountain infantry, marines, navy , full central planning or not etc)

I would also like to make a consideration on a game with German.
Everything is played in the first three/four months of Barbarossa. If you succed you rule the world. If you fail you are fucked. And this has been the real history, so you have done a very good job with EoD.
But..
It's a game. So, in a future update could you make the USA a lot more stronger in case af german succes in SU? And the UK, if still alive, a lot more focused on defending the homeland?
Let me be clear: EoD is amazing and I really enjoy every new game I start. I wish only to have the same feeling of "what can I do to win" after a succesfull barbarossa.

Cheers

 

[Rangergxi]

What's a good way to play the US? It's pretty easy to push towards centralized control but Free Market has some pretty excellent bonuses.

Also, does the US move towards War hawk?

 

[KarlXI]

Hi there



After a lot of games with germany I wish to give the Japan a try. Please, could you elaborate a bit the production strategy from start? (IC. mountain infantry, marines, navy , full central planning or not etc)

I would also like to make a consideration on a game with German.
Everything is played in the first three/four months of Barbarossa. If you succed you rule the world. If you fail you are fucked. And this has been the real history, so you have done a very good job with EoD.
But..
It's a game. So, in a future update could you make the USA a lot more stronger in case af german succes in SU? And the UK, if still alive, a lot more focused on defending the homeland?
Let me be clear: EoD is amazing and I really enjoy every new game I start. I wish only to have the same feeling of "what can I do to win" after a succesfull barbarossa.

Cheers

Hi!

Japan has relatively low IC so it must be spent wisely.

After playing a couple of games as Japan, and indeed getting a bit to like playing off this nation, I can say that early production strategy (up to Marco Polo incident) should be focused on this:

9x12 INF
1x12 CAV
5x5 IC (don't build in Akita province, it won't work. But in the long run, it will net you enough IC to get a new research slot, grow up your productive capacity, etc...)
2x1 Kii-Class Battleship
1x18 Transports
6x54 Heavy Submarine (this one stays up permanently) w/ Torpedo and floatplane. Subs need a lot of gearing to have efficient production, and you'll need a lot of them, but I managed to sink over 3500 TP by 1943 using them effectively.

You'll find that in the long run, the best way to stop the US juggernaut from doing massive amphibious assaults is to starve them to death, sinking their convoys. An unit that can't retreat and has no supplies available will fight with a whopping -100% efficiency on defense and offense, allowing you to win over and kill them fairly quickly.

That's it! Later, a single serial of INT and perhaps possibly NAV, plus a single serial of Marines and a permanent serial of GAR (all of these after 1937), reducing your INF serial to a 6x12 one, will be enough to satisfy your needs. Also you can go for an extra, No. 13 Class battleship to get a perfect 9/9 balance on your SAG, too.

Make sure you refit your battleships with the latest radar, fire control, floatplanes, AA, etc... since that makes a difference. They can usually be built with a single, inexpensive serial and you have plenty of time for it before you face enemies who can sink them.

Build your first batch of carriers (4-6 CV, plus some extra CVL) in 1939, they'll get ready just in time for Pearl Harbour. And that's presuming you don't even try getting more ambitious, but that's usually enough to kill off the USA up to 1943-1944. You need to focus on INF and GAR, and your IC is sadly too low to build a navy and a giant specialized ground force at the same time, plus an airforce, at least before the war.

Focus research on CV doctrine, infantry and logistics. Don't bother too much with tanks or AA until later in the game, and aerial doctrines can be safely ignored for more precious industrial techs dealing with refining, production boni, assembly lines and agriculture.

Later on (by 1949), you'll want to disband all but 4-5 of your BB in order to save resources - if and only if they manage to survive! Main reason is that Fuso, Yamashiro, Ise, Hyuga and even perhaps Mutsu and Nagato will be way too old, way past their shelf life and BB's will be no match for CV then and thus will have no place in your battle line, except as a fire support unit for your marines.

Your BC fleet is way too old and has way too short range to get in your main battle line. I usually refit them and use them as a transport escort. After the war, if they survive and don't get bombed to death by enemy carriers, NAV and TAC, which they usually do, you'll want to disband them all since they're already pretty much obsolete by the time the war starts.

Also, don't forget that you'll need *at least* 1500 Convoys + Escorts in order to be effective with your huge empire and daily TP sinkings by enemies. This usually translates to 4 very long serials, which will shorten build time significantly.

 

[Melchisedek]

Thank you a lot for the tips KarlXI.
Do you fellow the full Central Planning or not?

Regards

 

[KarlXI]

Go full Central Planning, full Hawk Lobby.

 

[Melchisedek]

Go full Central Planning, full Hawk Lobby.

Thx again.
Another 2 question:
-do you produce flat INF or you brigade any of them? and what in case?
-you didnt say anything about mountain inf. You dont think they are useful in China?

 

[KarlXI]

-do you produce flat INF or you brigade any of them? and what in case?
-you didnt say anything about mountain inf. You dont think they are useful in China?

Flat INF, no country simply has the IC to brigade every infantry. And then for the IC spent on brigades, you could always build more infantry instead, or something else.

Disband all your brigades from the start. Group your fleets in a single SAG, transport convoys, and CTF. Give them fancy names, easy to remember.

Mountain INF can be useful in China but I never tried them. You could try building a single serial of them, and use them as a concentrated single army hopping from mountain province to mountain province. It's your choice. Remember that ordinary INF is cheaper, takes less time to recruit, and massed in enough numbers will win any battle anywhere.

Which just shows important point No 2 or whatever: specialized troops are that. Don't build a lot of them, especially if you're constrained for resources. Always go for the easy and cheap: submarines, infantry, DD and militia. That's your recipe for victory.

 

[JJMerrill]

@Black Ader Thanks for the great feedback - here are my responses.

Few remarks/bug finding for this most excellent mod otherwise :

-Hitler is supposed to survive Elsner's bomb all the time on normal difficulty, but he was killed twice, albeit I was on normal.

Definitely a bug that I'm not aware of - is this one of the bombing assassination events? I've noted it down to check this out. It should never happen on normal.

-When I closed to Moscow, I had a message saying that Staline withdrawed from Moscow. The capital moved to Gorky. However, when I took Moscow, Staline HQ unit was there, and another message said that Staline is dead.

This is a bug that I've had trouble figuring out, so I've removed one of the "Stalin's death" events for the time being in my current work.

-After Stailne's death, HoS was Kalinin (plausible), and HoG was...Kerenski ! I'm pretty sure that he was exiled in USA at this time, and I can't imagine Kalinin, Beria and Malenkov recalling him to save USSR.

I've made it so that Beria is always appointed HoS once Stalin dies. There was a good discussion on this several pages back that lines up with your ideas.

-Japan never launched attack on Pearl Harbor. I suppose that it is because they performed so bad in China (losing half of Manchuria) ? Something should really be done for Japan...

I've made large improvements in the Sino-Japanese theatre to help them out a bit. It now results in a stalemate, as it did historically, almost every time.

-Another miserable failure is Italy in northern Africa. But it is an old problem, and less annoying than Japan.

I haven't touched this theatre yet but may do so in the future. Italy almost always fails in Africa.

A final thought on Barbarossa : first month is decisive. If I fail on primary encirclement, I will soon be pushed back to Poland. But on the other hand, if my early stage is victorious, I will be safe more or less untill the end. I didn't took Moscow to taste the russian winter, but it was frankly quite calm, and 1942 wasn't really a challenge.

This has been my experience as well, though I've made some serious balance changes to the USSR that I have yet to test out. They will build a lot more ARM much less aircraft now.

 

[makif130289]

I can confirm Elser bomb killing Hitler on Normal Difficulty. It happened to me twice so far.