Ecumenopolis VS Ringworlds

[Novacat]

I mean, even taking aside that argument, it can easily be explained away by mineral synthesis instead. So it kind of becomes a moot argument anyway, so, let us go back into the mechanics and gameplay arguments.

It might be wortwhile to give ringworlds and Ecu-like district for research/unity. That would make them much more interesting.

I thought about this but... that is the habitat's shtick, and, habitats are hurting already. This would basically turn ringworlds into better habitats.

Even putting aside the empire sprawl issues, which could easily be fixed by doing the aformentioned 25-district, better district approach, the primary flaw with Ringworlds is perhaps a flaw with the game itself.

Energy and Food are just not important in an empire.

Mineral production is king. You need it for buildings. You need it for alloys. You need it for consumer goods. You need it for rare resources. You need alloys for damn near everything.

Nothing eats up energy or food like that.

 

[Etrutian]

I never liked how you could build mines on ringworlds. Imagine the ringworld construction crew shoving valuable mineral deposits into the ringworld's surface so that a mining crew can later dig them out. It never made sense to me.

Also keep in mind that ringworlds are more valuable in galaxies with a low habitable planet setting.

When can we get a ruined ring-world anomaly involving some primitives not realizing that they were mining into a ringworld? 'THE FOOLS"

 

[skydiver1]

Instead of mining, ringworlds can really use the introduction into the game of bio alloys, Mon Calamari style. Probably not as a separate resource (that would be cool but the AI is confused enough as it is) but rather as an alternative building that gives jobs converting food to alloys.
Something like that can make all the food a ringworld produces extremely relevant in the late game.

 

[Incompetent]

The problem with this is that normal empires can already pretty much run 100% of their mining districts without ring world. Just starts stacking some -housing bonuses (robots + communal is basically enough, slaves are bonus) and you can abandon most of your city districts to run 100% of available mining + 100% energy + some small amount of food needed to sustain the pops. At that point what are you gaining with the ringworld?

What you're gaining is a ton more total districts than you had previously, and the opportunity to build over all the farm/energy buildings on your planets without losing any income. If you're running out of space this is a big deal; if you still have plenty of space on your planets, not so much.

As I say, I think they should have some bonuses so your workers actually become more productive/efficient when moving to a Ringworld, just like urban pops become more productive when they move to an Ecumenopolis. Then you would at least have an incentive to start populating the Ringworld before your planets fill up.

 

[PirateJack]

I wouldn't mind seeing each section of the ringworld production giving some minerals to show that the planets are being sifted through for the less useful but still potentially useable parts.

 

[Silens]

Or just bring back Replicators as Ringworld-only buildings to mass-convert the energy into minerals. Preferably at a better rate than the market provides you with.

 

[codeGnave]

A full on city ringworld would make insane trade power right? So many more districts for clerks.

 

[roman566]

Or just bring back Replicators as Ringworld-only buildings to mass-convert the energy into minerals. Preferably at a better rate than the market provides you with.

Why not turn replicators into special Ringworld only district?

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Two Ecumenopolii supplying energy via trade, alloys, and consumer goods, two Matter Decompressors for those juicy minerals, a Ringworld that's a massive farm and country retreat and a plethora of habitats churning out motes, crystals and exotic gases. My Empire is working like a charm.

 

[Secret Master]

A full on city ringworld would make insane trade power right? So many more districts for clerks.

This is what I haven’t tried yet.

I wonder if you could satisfy 100% of your consumer goods just from the clerks on a ringworld with trade buildings. Would that even be worth doing?

 

[PirateJack]

This is what I haven’t tried yet.

I wonder if you could satisfy 100% of your consumer goods just from the clerks on a ringworld with trade buildings. Would that even be worth doing?

I've been edging towards specialising planets towards each resource, including consumer goods. I think I'll test this out over the weekend, see if it could work.

 

[Less2]

This is what I haven’t tried yet.

I wonder if you could satisfy 100% of your consumer goods just from the clerks on a ringworld with trade buildings. Would that even be worth doing?

Trade is really inefficient to begin with on a per-pop basis. It's theoretically possible, just probably not practical since you are constrained by how quickly you can grow pops. Just to throw out some numbers: By the late game a single pop working minerals can commonly produce 12 minerals or energy on their own. 2 workers making CGs on an Ecumenopolis can transform those 12 minerals into 20+ CGs. A worker working trade might produce 3 trade at best I think? That's .75 CGs, so you'd need ~27 traders to produce the CGs that 3 workers do on regular worlds. Of course you get an energy surplus, but ringworlds can already run virtually infinite amounts of workers directly working energy, so that's not terribly useful.

In any case you're probably better off building dozens of habitats and gearing those all for trade. You'll certainly need them if you plan to fill up a ringworld any time soon.

 

[ArmChairAttila]

Trade is really inefficient to begin with on a per-pop basis. It's theoretically possible, just probably not practical since you are constrained by how quickly you can grow pops. Just to throw out some numbers: By the late game a single pop working minerals can commonly produce 12 minerals or energy on their own. 2 workers making CGs on an Ecumenopolis can transform those 12 minerals into 20+ CGs. A worker working trade might produce 3 trade at best I think? That's .75 CGs, so you'd need ~27 traders to produce the CGs that 3 workers do on regular worlds. Of course you get an energy surplus, but ringworlds can already run virtually infinite amounts of workers directly working energy, so that's not terribly useful.

In any case you're probably better off building dozens of habitats and gearing those all for trade. You'll certainly need them if you plan to fill up a ringworld any time soon.

Wrong wrong wrong.... you are flexible with clerks you are not with buildings. I can easily switch policy around with trade making massive late game changes with 1 button. Population is in abundance in the late game so you can shut down their growth or build clerk jobs. It's funny how arguments against clerks alway leave out the power of the market. Have you played with a consumer focused trade empire pulling in over 4k trade yet? Pulling in 3k energy a month with hardly a CG demand and able to buy anything on the market in huge bulks regardless of the trade ratio? Pulling in so much trade that you may have 1 energy planet not because you need it but just to make you feel "safe."

 

[Less2]

Wrong wrong wrong.... you are flexible with clerks you are not with buildings. I can easily switch policy around with trade making massive late game changes with 1 button. Population is in abundance in the late game so you can shut down their growth or build clerk jobs. It's funny how arguments against clerks alway leave out the power of the market. Have you played with a consumer focused trade empire pulling in over 4k trade yet? Pulling in 3k energy a month with hardly a CG demand and able to buy anything on the market in huge bulks regardless of the trade ratio? Pulling in so much trade that you may have 1 energy planet not because you need it but just to make you feel "safe."

If you want to play the market, do so with technicians who produce ~10 energy per pop, not clerks who produce ~3 energy per pop. Duh.

Clerks are just bad. Working other jobs is better. The fact that you think you have more resources than you know what to do with just shows that you don't know what to do with your resources, because if you did then you'd be running out while trying to run clerks. 4k energy a month? That's a laughingstock. I've had empires running 1k alloy a month by 2300. Go ahead and try to trade for that.

 

[ArmChairAttila]

What shows is your misunderstanding of the late game. Most if not all district and building/planet jobs are taken over, filled or bulldozed. Clerks may not be the most efficient but they are better than just turning off growth. Slots are very limited in the late game and with clerks I have the option of converting energy planets into other things I need. Again you fail to include many of the positives of clerks. Which is very common with this argument. This flexibility is a reason which I am not very fond of machines and hives. I get their simplicity but they are not very flexible late game without huge rebuilding programs and a bunch of systems micro required to retool.

 

[ArmChairAttila]

I am in the middle of a mega Corp criminal syndicate game. I choose both the free trades civic and thrifty gene. The early game is a f'ING breeze not really having to worry about CG's and energy to much. Getting into the mid game with just 4 planets. It's really nice only having 1 CG factory and like 8 power plants running 4 planets with robots and bio pops.

 

[Zalmoxis]

SOLAR MINING

Starlifting could be a thing. If Ringworlds could also be made to get minerals from the star itself that could work really well. It would be like having mining districts but instead of mining the ringworlds it would be mining the star.

 

[roman566]

Problems with building slots? Become a xenophobe! A single servant slave needs 0.25 housing and produces 4-5 amenities, enough for itself and couple other pops. Worker slave requires 0.75 housing. With slaves, a single resource district can maintain 2 workers to work there and 2 servants to provide amenities. Food isn't an issue as you have livestock. In the late game, I have so many building slots open that I have no idea what to do with them.

 

[Less2]

What shows is your misunderstanding of the late game. Most if not all district and building/planet jobs are taken over, filled or bulldozed. Clerks may not be the most efficient but they are better than just turning off growth. Slots are very limited in the late game and with clerks I have the option of converting energy planets into other things I need. Again you fail to include many of the positives of clerks. Which is very common with this argument. This flexibility is a reason which I am not very fond of machines and hives. I get their simplicity but they are not very flexible late game without huge rebuilding programs and a bunch of systems micro required to retool.

What are you calling the late game? 2450, when end-game crises arrive by default? No reason to play that long when you can dominate the galaxy by 2350. Strategies that only become relevant a hundred years after better strategies have conquered the galaxy are not relevant strategies.

In any case, there's *never* a reason to run traders for energy over technicians for energy on a ringworld because a ringworld explicitly provides more energy when maxed with technicians than it does when maxed at (several times greater) clerks.

 

[evilcat]

Having some other Megastructures is a big plus for Ringworld. It is not like you need to start with Ringworld it could be Dyson Sphere, Matter, Research Lab and if you happen to still be online then Rngworld as cherry on top.

BUT.... the main problem with Megastrctures is how horrible requirments are, and that you need fair amount of luck to roll or techs.