Big post about edicts, habitats, Ecumenopoli, pops and few other thing that raise some questions

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Goredell

Private
30 Badges
Jun 26, 2019
15
24
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Magicka 2
This is continuation of my post about leaders. Few words again:
  • This post was never meant to offend players and/or devs. I love this game that's why I've written this.
  • Please keep in mind that i know some of those issues can, possibly, be fixed with modes, but I'm talking about vanilla game, and want vanilla game to be a better place.
  • I'm sorry for any typos, wrong and strange language constructions and other oddities, it's pretty rare for me to write posts this big in English.
  1. Ecumenopoli
    So let us be straight, Ecumenopoli technically is a building. Planet-wide, super-big, longterm building that does not consume slot. So why bonuses that increase building speed or reduce building costs are not applied? Also, since Ecumenopoli is a planet-wide City, why encasing a 10 Size big planet costs the same amount of resources as 30 Size planet, the efforts are literally 3times differ.
    Why not remake the cost and time to be smth like 10 Influence, 1000 minerals and 480 days per planter size. And apply build speed and cost bonuses after that. There will be much more reason to encase smaller planets, especially early on.

  2. Pops and pop traits
    1. The logic of ascending your whole race to synths is to make better versions of urself in the image and likeness of current urself. Why then all ur newbourne synth are blank and have no traits. Why can't thet have some minor mapping for their meaty versions. Like agrarian turn in harvesters, both +15% food jobs, communal -> double jointed, rapid breeders -> Mass-Produced and etc. This looks logicaland cool - u make better images of urself and u keep ur "strong sides".

    2. Question two, why synth don't have any analogues of Thrifty or Strong/very Strong. It's like "we are the best traders in the world, and after our ascention we'll become even better!!" and after ascension he forgot how to trade, and does not have bonus now. Strange

    3. Why there are no adequate unique traits for lithoids, those 3 they have are significantly useless -- +1 rare material per 100 pops, sounds cool(no). Why no "Delicious" analogue for them to give more minerals as lifestock, or job upkeep decreasement, since they are literally living stones and need much less in terms of worker protection, so job upkeep should be lower or something else interesting and unique?
  3. Federation types
    1. Why can't driven exterminator create a martial alliance. They are killing machines, they are meant to be driven by war, but they just have default Machine empire options (Research cooperative and galactic union). Opposed to this driven assimilator has access to Hegemony federation type.

    2. Why can't Hiveminds create ANY other federation type rather than Galactic union. I might be wrong, but IMHO Hivemind is a flexible mass of minds, driven to be efficient and alive. See no reason for it to be unable to create research, martial or hegemony federations rather than "illogical but balanced, so needs no fixing"
  4. Space defenses
    The longer is playthrough the stronger are fleets, and in some moment defensive star stations become obsolete, since even maxed out bastion full of defensive platforms can't oppose anything to those fleets. Isn't it time for new megastructure? Some megabastion?

  5. Habitats, their Capital buildings and districts.
    The capital building in a habitat is called central control and it behaves itself pretty strange:
    1. For some reason hives and machine empires have the same "central control" as classical empires, not some "Habitat Hive nexus"es or "Habitat Central Processor"s, but old boring central control that even looks the same way as of classic empires;

    2. Capital building can't be upgraded more than once, which creates two problems:
      1. In 3.0 we've got new awesome techs that increase resources from jobs and their upkeep by 10% per planetary capital building lvl from +0 as a colony to +30 as a fully developed planet. Habitats can't utilize those researches properly since they can't lvl up their capital more than once, so they are capped at +10% even if u have 50+ ppl here(yes it's not efficient in current patch but it is possible to provide jobs for all of them). No matter what is level of your habitat, or if u've taken void borne/dweller origin/perk, or u have ton or ppl here.

      2. Habitats are pretty useless for robot empires and synth ascension, cuz of low amount of replicators/robotists, which are primarily given by capital buildings. So i'd better use those 4k alloys not to build and upgrade habitat, but to build a fleet and conquer my neighbors' worlds.
    3. New industrial districts are awesome and i like them, but there are strange anomaly, happening to them, when u look at habitats. So the basic thing for districts at habitats was having 3 housing and 3 jobs, and an extra job for Hives. But industrial districts have 3 housing and 2 jobs, not only that, they don't give extra jobs for hives. Shouldn't they give 2 foundry, 1 civil jobs in terms of normal empires, and 3 for gestalts, as well as 1 extra for hives, summing this up to 4 foundry drones?
  6. Edicts are pretty cool and flexible options to enhance some of your resources in cost of influence and/or energy, which is AWESOME, but there are few buts:
    1. Some edicts are just too weak compared to others.
      There are roughly 4 types of edicts:
      • Timed edicts
        Nearly all of those are good - u give some resource to have a timed effect in some niche - extra exp, faster fleet, stronger rockets, etc, etc The only bad here IMO is Nanite actuators, since they, in most cases, can be utilized only in early game and only if u're lucky enough to find nanites. In mid-to-late game I wasn't able to accumulate enough nanites to use it even once, even with full control of L-cluster.

      • Edicts that increase jobs' yield
        Some of those are really god, nearly too good, some of those are just a joke. So in the left corner of the ring we have capacity, mining and farming subsidies each gives +0.5 nrg upkeep and +50% yield per job and in the right corner of the ring we have industrial, forge and research subsidies each gives +1 nrg upkeep and +10% yield per job.
        So I guess the logic is pretty simple, it's much more profitable to use some edicts for the worker jobs, so u would need less people on them and create more specialist jobs than using some edicts to upgrade ur specialists. Those just need some adjustment.

      • Edicts that give jobs
        Smth like synaptic Reinforcement for hives. These that are in game are just joke, it's enough sources for gestalts to have amenities without these.

      • Edicts that give some other advantages
        Those are like Greater than ourselves, Nutritional Plentitude, Fleet Supremacy and etc. They are good but it's just not enough capacity yo utilize jobs and those in good enough ratio, so u take those or others nearly no exception.
    2. Base edict capacity is low.
      There are 3 ways to obtain it:
      1. Changing authority to Imperial authority, which gives u 1 extra edict capacity.
      2. Civics like "Inward perfection" and "Imperial cult" also gives u +1 capacity.
      3. Executive vigor ascension perk gives u +2 capacity
      So u can have:
      • 5 edicts as an imperial with inward perfection(xenophobe and pacifist) OR imperial cult(spiritualist and authoritarian) edict maniac with executive vigor
      • 3 as a machine or hive with executive vigor
      • Or just 1 edict as any other empire without "Executive vigor".
      Some of u can say "Hey why don't u just ignore this capacity thing?" - well cuz every edict off capacity gives u +25% sprawl from everything, it's may be good idea to take 1 extra edict, but no more, why? You'd better create new jobs for the niche u want to strengthen with your edicts neither trying to overcome the consequences of this extra sprawls with extra bureaucrats.

    In conclusion i have three options for edicts:
    • Make base capacity 2 instead of 1, so there would be more reason to utilize edicts;
    • More edict capacity from civics. There are some civics that by their name SHOULD give u some edict capacity, like Divided attention of a hivemind or Efficient beurocracy;
    • Some mid-to-late game social techs that give edict capacity.
 
Last edited:
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Ecumenopoli
So let us be straight, Ecumenopoli technically is a building. Planet-wide, superbig, longterm building that does not consume slot. So why bonuses that increase building speed or reduce building costs are not applied? Also, since Ecumenopoli is a planet-wide City, why encasing a 10 Size big planet cost the same amount of resources as 30 Size planet, the efforts are literally 3times differ.
Why not remake the cost and time to smth like 10 Influence, 1000 minerals and 480 days per planter size. And apply build speed and cost bonuses after that. There will be more reason to encase smaller planets, especially early on.
I’ve looked at ecumenopoli cost scaling a few times. The best way of implementing it through modding is either:
a) Add “Encase World” as a decision. This could remove a planet feature and add 1 Ecology District Capacity. For each point of capacity you could replace a standard district with an ecumenopolis district. This has the benefit of also allowing a slow modular transition.

b) The other option would be to allow normal districts to be replaced with ecumenopolis districts.

In ether case the planet class would change when all standard districts are gone.
 
The real fix needed for ecumenopolis is when you turn your CG planet into an ecu, despite literally every job and industrial district being for CG jobs and the planet being designated appropriately, the game adds ecumenopolis foundry districts that adds only alloy jobs. So you go from +500 alloys to +1000 except then your consumer goods go to -500 and you have to scramble to replace the districts. The devs need to either add some better logic, or merge ecumenopolis CG and foundry districts to use the same "dependant on designation to give appropriate jobs else it gives both" style industrial districts of normal planets; just scaled up appropriately for an ecu.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
You have lategame edict capacity because you can research +15 admin cap infinitely.
By the time I have this research option(100-140 years) i have ~ 2-3k sprawl, 1 extra edict is going to give me +25% sprawl -> 500-750 -> 500-750 / 15 = 33-50 times to research this tech. So ur point is not really good.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Literally every fricking mechanic made after 2.2 is kinda strange.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: