Economics and Manufacturies

[unmerged(7900)]

I've played two games thus far and I've figured out how to colonize, expand my empire, use my merchants, build the inexpensive improvements (temples, workshops) etc. However, I don't understand how you ever afford manufacturies.

CURRENT GAME: Playing as Ottomans. I keep my monthly slider at 0 to control inflation, but my monthly deficit always ensures my yearly balance is eaten away by midyear, even if I don't spend any. Granted, I have to keep a large military because Austria, Poland and Hungary seem intent on annhilating me every couple years- but even with decreased military maintenance during peace, I'll NEVER come close to the 900-1000 needed to build manufacturies.

Can someone please tell me how this is accomplished?

I've already expanded my empire a fair amount and created lots of minor vassals, so I don't think that is it...

Thanks for the help!

Fish

 

[Mr Me]

You need to mint; put the treasury slider at 100% so that your income go directly to your treasury. You do incur some inflation but if you can build some manufacturies which expand your economy by more % than your inflation went up it is worth it.

 

[naggy]

CURRENT GAME: Playing as Ottomans. I keep my monthly slider at 0 to control inflation, but my monthly deficit always ensures my yearly balance is eaten away by midyear, even if I don't spend any. Granted, I have to keep a large military because Austria, Poland and Hungary seem intent on annhilating me every couple years- but even with decreased military maintenance during peace, I'll NEVER come close to the 900-1000 needed to build manufacturies.

Step 1: Convert wrong-religion provinces.
Step 2: Wait until you have lots of cores.
Step 3: Build lots of workshops.
Step 4: If you want, get Bureaucracy. The 5% tax modifier affects both monthly and census taxes.

Generally, it'll be a while before you have enough from census taxes that you can start saving up for manufacturies, but once you get to that point, you can build one every 5-10 years.

 

[fraese]

Considering manufactories add 66 or 72 ducats a year income, taking some inflation is justified to build them as early as possible.

 

[Desertfox]

Considering manufactories add 66 or 72 ducats a year income, taking some inflation is justified to build them as early as possible.

It depends. Inflation is *really* damaging. Tech costs go up, army and navy build costs go up, army and navy maintenance go up, future manufactory prices go up, colonist and trader placement prices go up etc etc.

If later in the game you get a huge income through other means, like trade or conquests, that income is hurt too. That 1 manufactory you get at the cost of 5% inflation may look like it provides a huge income at first, but if your income is much higher later in the game, the output from the manufactory may not be so important relatively, and the 5% inflation still hurts.

 

[Kanitatlan]

I would strongly recommend that you don't build up inflation to afford manufactories. My approach tends to be to mint around year end to get enough money to build 1 and then go to zero treasury and reduce inflation back to zero before going again. This means having an inflation reducing mechanism which, early game, will have to be national bank. This is one of the reasons that national bank becomes important.

 

[Ofaloaf]

I always viewed manufactories as more mid-to-late-game, when you have a vast continental and colonial empire and are pulling in 400 ducats every yearly census tax. I only built my first one in the late 1500s in my Tuscany/Italy game.

 

[unmerged(7900)]

I'm still in the early 1500's, so that might be part of it. I guess I've been avoiding inflation at all costs and I have to give a little there.

I'll try some of those ideas. Thanks folks.

 

[jhhowell]

In my games thus far, economic take-off occurs when constables are built. That should put your census taxes up in the 300-500 range, depending on how big you are. After that, a manufactory every ~5 years is no problem. I've been averaging a manufactory every two years (except wartime, since army maintenance costs quite a bit at full value) for about sixty years. No need to mint, by the mid-1500s you'll be cranking out manufactories regularly.

Did you focus on military Ideas? I always go for the economic ones first, so that may be a factor here. Bureaucracy and Bank are probably the most urgent for the OE.

I'd also suggest leaving Europe alone, there's little to be gained there. Wrong culture, wrong religion, and it's a lot harder to get missionaries now (not to mention the high costs). The OE works best going north and northeast to the same culture group, same religion Mongol and Tartar provinces. The northern Mameluke provinces are also well worth your effort, very high tax value in Aleppo, Damascus, Beirut, and Jerusalem. Same religion, wrong culture - not a bad deal. The spices down in Arabia are also nice. Pretty much anything beats the christian, Serbian/Croatian/Hungarian wool provinces you'd get moving west.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

Take the National Bank idea and mint just enough to cover your army maintenance (or nearly enough). You'll be surprised how much money a decent sized Ottoman Empire can make. As mentioned, start to spread Islam in the Balkans to further bolster your income. Make sure you keep your armies and navies on low maintenance when you are not actually fighting. Send out merchants to Asian CoTs like Fars or Samarkand which high trade tech Europeans often don't discover until late in the game.

 

[sokolov]

1535 here, just completed my 6th Refinery and have 3 Universities built, and working on 2 more. My inflation is now 9% from my minting to supply it. Hopefully it will be worth it =D

As for Constables... it really doesn't pay for itself for two decades or more in low tax provinces, right?

 

[unmerged(74284)]

My math feeling says, it might be effective to take some inflation to build manufacturies. But it depends on some factors:
1. You need to get the inflation after building some manufacturies down. If the inflation still increasing, the high income just doesn't use anything (in one game inflation around 80% killed me slowly).
2. You should spend the money in money-production buildings (not in forts, troops, ...).

For my first manufactury i was saving some years the money. Most of my money (over 60%) was from Trading (many CoT with 5 own mercs). At around 1550 i managend to get more then the double income of the second player. And my manufacturies are just penuts compared to my trade income.

But be aware ... i am realy bad at offensive war ... to high BB => i get kicked out of the CoTs.

 

[berhaven]

In the early part of the game (i.e. before you have inflation reduction tools, either by province improvement or by having bank as NI), the only reasonable way to have manufactories is to annex provinces which already have one, usually a university in Europe and many in Italy.
Later, well later you'll be either in the condition of building them just for fun 'cause you do not know how to spend the money you have, or you are in a struggle for survival, and every cent has to be dedicated to sheer survival...

[edit+] Wow, call me colonel berh

 

[daringly]

There's another way to reduce inflation in the early game. Conquer and annex Avignon. It has a tax assessor. When I play Switzerland, I love to take that first - it reduced my inflation by 0.17%/year.