ECM and LRM Direct/Indirect Fire?

[Sigil]

When you are inside a friendly ECM bubble, how does that effect incoming LRM direct and indirect fire? Do you need to have a stealth charge in order to gain the ECM benefit?
And, is there some way to verify its applying properly?

 

[Jade_Rook]

If you are in a friendly ECM bubble then enemies cannot use indirect fire. If they have direct fire, they need to first remove the stealth charge, then they can direct fire, but LRMs and SRMs get a +4 shot penalty (-20% accuracy). Both of these can be negated with sensor lock.

ECM gives two status effects, the stealth charges and the missile protection (forget what the buff is actually called). As long as you have those it should be working correctly. Remember, sensor lock removes both buffs. It can be better to have a mech reveal themselves to draw fire and prevent the AI from using sensor locks.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

@Jade_Rook, Stealth Charges are separate from the +4 Missile Protection? I do not recall seeing anything about this from HBS. So that implies that even if the Friendly BattleMech expends it’s Stealth Charge by firing at an Enemy Unit, it somehow remains just as inscrutable to Enemy Missile Fire... that doesn’t seem to hold with much of HBS thinking on Game Mechanics. Once an Evasion Charge is gone, it’s gone. Armor gone, it’s gone. Stability gone, it takes Morale Use or a turn of Bracing/foregone Weapons Fire. For Missile Protection to persist despite the expenditure of the Stealth Charge... connotes a persistence to the ECM field I had not considered.

What if the ECM Field itself is breached by an Enemy BattleMech? Does the Missile Protection persist in this instance as well? With the integrity of the ECM Field a casualty of the Enemy Mech’s Advance, Missile Protection should fall away.

 

[Jade_Rook]

@Jade_Rook, Stealth Charges are separate from the +4 Missile Protection? I do not recall seeing anything about this from HBS. So that implies that even if the Friendly BattleMech expends it’s Stealth Charge by firing at an Enemy Unit, it somehow remains just as inscrutable to Enemy Missile Fire... that doesn’t seem to hold with much of HBS thinking on Game Mechanics. Once an Evasion Charge is gone, it’s gone. Armor gone, it’s gone. Stability gone, it takes Morale Use or a turn of Bracing/foregone Weapons Fire. For Missile Protection to persist despite the expenditure of the Stealth Charge... connotes a persistence to the ECM field I had not considered.

What if the ECM Field itself is breached by an Enemy BattleMech? Does the Missile Protection persist in this instance as well? With the integrity of the ECM Field a casualty of the Enemy Mech’s Advance, Missile Protection should fall away.

Yes, the missile protection is definitely separate from the stealth charges. I just tested it. I thought it created a separate buff icon... but maybe that was removed in a patch? Either that or I am mis-remembering it, which is entirely possible. Would really be better as a separate icon to make it clearer.

Here are some screenshots from my testing:

Spoiler

Enemy Crab that I have not sensor locked. On its turn it used sensor lock, revealing itself. Note the +5 Enemy Effects modifier, 4 of that is from ECM, and I believe 1 is from the pilot (I forgot to check how high Arclight's Piloting ability was).

Firing at an enemy Commando that I had sensor locked. It was still inside the enemy ECM bubble, but does not have the +4 Enemy Effects modifier. Sensor lock removes all benefits of ECM.

Another shot at that Commando on the next turn. See that is inside the ECM bubble and does have the +4 Enemy Effects modifier since I have not sensor locked it. That Locust next to the Commando is mine, which reduced the enemy stealth, but does not remove the missile defense.

I forgot to include LRMs in my test lance, so I could not test indirect fire, but I am certain that I would not be able to use IDF on revealed enemies that were still in the ECM bubble unless they had been sensor locked.

Even if you can locate a mech, either because it is actively shooting at you, or through proximity, it does not remove the ECM field's effects on missile targeting. The ECM field is still present. The only way to remove it is to destroy the ECM or to focus sensors on a unit using the Sensor Lock skill.

Everyone focuses on the Stealth Charges, which are both powerful and obvious, however the missile protection is also supposed to be a powerful benefit. There is a reason that the ECM tutorial mission in the flashpoint has you facing massed LRM fire and it isn't because of the stealth charges.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Yes, the missile protection is definitely separate from the stealth charges. I just tested it. I thought it created a separate buff icon... but maybe that was removed in a patch? Either that or I am mis-remembering it, which is entirely possible. Would really be better as a separate icon to make it clearer.

Here are some screenshots from my testing:

Spoiler

Enemy Crab that I have not sensor locked. On its turn it used sensor lock, revealing itself. Note the +5 Enemy Effects modifier, 4 of that is from ECM, and I believe 1 is from the pilot (I forgot to check how high Arclight's Piloting ability was).
View attachment 573175

Firing at an enemy Commando that I had sensor locked. It was still inside the enemy ECM bubble, but does not have the +4 Enemy Effects modifier. Sensor lock removes all benefits of ECM.
View attachment 573176

Another shot at that Commando on the next turn. See that is inside the ECM bubble and does have the +4 Enemy Effects modifier since I have not sensor locked it. That Locust next to the Commando is mine, which reduced the enemy stealth, but does not remove the missile defense.
View attachment 573177

I forgot to include LRMs in my test lance, so I could not test indirect fire, but I am certain that I would not be able to use IDF on revealed enemies that were still in the ECM bubble unless they had been sensor locked.

Even if you can locate a mech, either because it is actively shooting at you, or through proximity, it does not remove the ECM field's effects on missile targeting. The ECM field is still present. The only way to remove it is to destroy the ECM or to focus sensors on a unit using the Sensor Lock skill.

Everyone focuses on the Stealth Charges, which are both powerful and obvious, however the missile protection is also supposed to be a powerful benefit. There is a reason that the ECM tutorial mission in the flashpoint has you facing massed LRM fire and it isn't because of the stealth charges.

Nicely done and well tested, Good @Jade_Rook!

I tested this out too and confirmed your findings and I tested out the breaching of the ECM Protected Area vice Sensor Locking and Enemy shedding its our ECM Charges. At no time, except a Sensor Lock, is the Missile Buff removed. #Good2Know

 

[Sigil]

Nicely done and well tested, Good @Jade_Rook!

I tested this out too and confirmed your findings and I tested out the breaching of the ECM Protected Area vice Sensor Locking and Enemy shedding its our ECM Charges. At no time, except a Sensor Lock, is the Missile Buff removed. #Good2Know

I assume this works in both directions. That is, if one of your units is within an a friendly ECM bubble it cannot be targeted indirectly with LRMs and it benefits from the +4 missile protection unless the enemy sensor locks it.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I assume this works in both directions. That is, if one of your units is within an a friendly ECM bubble it cannot be targeted indirectly with LRMs and it benefits from the +4 missile protection unless the enemy sensor locks it.

That is an excellent assumption. I agree, such protections would be afforded friendly protected assets.

 

[Jade_Rook]

Yep. Works exactly the same way the other direction. It is just easier to test and show firing into enemy ECM.