ECK AI mod?

[Pr8dator]

The mod shouldn't have affected initiative at all. If you can replicate that init. Knockback let me know. I've noticed some oddities in phasing while play skirmish mode and haven't been able to figure out what's causing it. My mod only touches the AI's behaviorVariables folder and the mech folder for role assignment. It shouldn't be messing with combatgameconstants.json or anything else that might change how initiative works other than letting the AI reserve.

I'm really enjoying where the sniper role is right now. The fact that almost every SP mission puts me in a dilemma for a few rounds is a great feeling. I know I can win, but it will make me pay for it or just plain give me no good targets and have to work for it.

With no weapons, the AI moves in to melee only mode, which isn't changed too drastically from the stock melee only. One role that overwrites that is lastmanstanding. If that weaponless unit is the last of its Lance, it will be more defensive than meleeonly, which is really bloodthirsty in comparison.

the init knockback seems random... i was not able to reliably duplicate it. It was during a campaign mission. It was a cicada, one volley of missiles knocked it into instability and it dropped to phase 2. Then another volley knocked it over by taking out its leg and it dropped to phase 1! LOL! I was unable to duplicate that strange behavior. I even had strange behaviors where my bulwark would activate even when I jumped and fired.

And yes, I REALLY love how you made the snipers and Lurmers behave!! In the past, It was so easy to run up to them and just bring them down quick as they will always be forward with the brawlers but now, damn, I actually have to hunt for them! LOL! Feels like real snipers and a real pain in the A now ahhahaaa. Also, instead of rushing in, delivering the payload and die like before, Jenners behave very much like skirmishers now, maintaining distance, taking potshots... very very nice! Overall, I would say your AI mod gave the enemy role warfare... in fact, I would go as far as to call it a AI Role Warfare mod hahaha

So far, weaponless units continue to just walk around and bracing even when there are plenty of other enemies around. This is quite weird and I have also seen this very same behavior in vanilla too. Its like they are trying to see if I am stupid enough to waste an activation on them so that their friends will be just that little bit safer?

Oh, your AI mod forced me to hit the withdraw button just now hahahaa I took up a 4.5 skull mission with just 3 meds and a light hahahaha took down two thunderbolts quickly and then the sickening catapult and orion and a couple of unknown LRM boats just stayed FAR FAR FAR away and LURMed the Shat out of my meds resulting in me having to punch out of it! At the same time, a few other griffins were already flanking my position . Seeing this as a lost cause as I would be torn to shreds by the LRMs even before I can finish off those flanking griffins (and the griffins are keeping distance too! That made it very hard for me to kill them quickly by saturating them in mid to close range)... I eventually withdraw with no casualties, 2 heavy kills but failing the mission... damn... in the past, all these heavies would be rushing up and I would have been able to kill them sequentially like I did those 2 thunderbolts... but now, LURMers REALLY keep their distance and made it impossible for me to ambush and overwhelm them! LOL!... I was defeated at last hahahaha I mean, before your mod, I take down full lances of heavies with just that 3 med and 1 light perfectly fine! LOL! Looking back at the enemy's strategy, sending 2 thunderbolts on vanguard along with a few mediums while a whole lance of heavy lurmers stay out of visual range and arty'd at me... damn, that felt like a real player there!

 

[SQW]

AI has been my biggest concern since beta. Glad a little tweak and doubling the opfor tonnage is doing a decent job of keeping good players on their toes. I feel for HBS - some guys are having trouble getting out of tutorial while others a finishing the campaign with a lance of mediums...

Anyway, looking forward to your final product @Amechwarrior.

 

[Amechwarrior]

AI has been my biggest concern since beta. Glad a little tweak and doubling the opfor tonnage is doing a decent job of keeping good players on their toes. I feel for HBS - some guys are having trouble getting out of tutorial while others a finishing the campaign with a lance of mediums...

Anyway, looking forward to your final product @Amechwarrior.

It's just hit 1.0 full release a week or two back and is compatible with 1.1.1. I re-did every available role and even the vehicles. As it's an ongoing mod, it won't ever really be "done" until I eventually give up the project. If you want, wait will 1.1 comes out this week (maybe over 4th of July or 5th if I'm lucky) and the new heat management gets in to the release build. Others can try it out now on the daily test branch on the Better AI github page.

 

[Pr8dator]

It's just hit 1.0 full release a week or two back and is compatible with 1.1.1. I re-did every available role and even the vehicles. As it's an ongoing mod, it won't ever really be "done" until I eventually give up the project. If you want, wait will 1.1 comes out this week (maybe over 4th of July or 5th if I'm lucky) and the new heat management gets in to the release build. Others can try it out now on the daily test branch on the Better AI github page.

Pls dun ever give up the project! I play like A LOT... clocked that 200 hours in just 1.5 months... so I would love to keep providing you with feedback and suggestions if you like.

You mentioned that locking targets don't give firing priority but when I played against the vanilla AI, I always get lurmed and PPCed after getting locked on. Perhaps there's actually a way of making it work? vanilla AI seems to already be doing it.

(I hadn't ran into this scenario with your mod yet sir but I can only imagine how terrifying running into a LRM60 carrier truck can be!!!!!!!!!!!!! With a lance too slow to chase it down and it deliberately keeping out of visual or even radar range, it can be terrifying! This reason alone, spiders or locusts remain strategically important with your mod to hunt down such abominations! LOL!)

Latest battle: Amazingly, AI was systematically taking out my biggest weapon on the field, the AC20 on the centurion right arm... no matter how I point the centurion, they were deliberately going around to the other side to shoot at that arm until at last they got it! WOW! Thats how I would have played it if I was the opposition! Was this a deliberate programing? Even though I won the battle, I lost that AC20 and it cost more than I made from the mission... sigh... good times!

 

[Pr8dator]

@Amechwarrior - Your AI has defeated me at last hahahaa that was an awesome round...

enemies were 2 enforcers + 2 wolverines + 2 shadowhawks + 1 jenner + 1 spider against my blackjack , shadowhawk, panther and vindicator.

Desert biome, small map with just 3 significant knolls in between.

I never had an issue with such an enemy line up as I am always able to control the flow and isolate and punch through 1 or 2 key mechs and then crash through their flank and wipe them all. But this battle, I controlled the flow quite well at first, luring the enemy into a clockwise movement while suddenly and quickly punching them from behind, so I ensured that I was 4 : 2 max and had no problem dispatching that first enforcer and then coring out a shadowhawk.

The enemy continued to move clockwise around the map hoping to catch me at the tail but I was moving into their tail end really fast, at this point, the map being a desert screwed my firepower and I found it hard to dispatch that second enforcer around the corner. I had to take my lance around that final knoll in the corner of the map for cover and try to rest at least one round before breaking out again.

And then suddenly the enemy started to take position at both ends of my cover, limiting my line of sights and slowly cut the pie into my lance which is now pretty much cornered. Usually this is how I like to play, limiting line of sight so that more of my mechs can have line of sight on lesser of theirs. However, the enemy just post up and braced around my limited line of sight, making my shots ineffective while having the jenner circle around the back of my formation... at that point I knew I am mostly F'ed ... I can't turn around to handle the jenner without getting shot in the back, I have no alternative cover to run to as the enemy have posted up on all of those areas.

It was a checkmate... even though my lance was mostly intact, my options were lost.

I cannot choose to break out from one side like I did early in the round cos there is now clear line of sight between the two ends and I would be in full fire from all enemies at the same time. Basically, it was a check mate move...

I tried the only thing I could, bulwarking and focus firing, hoping to break at least that final enforcer so that I can maintain firepower superiority but the AI, instead of shooting randomly at my lance, went on to take out my heaviest weapons by focus fire, first my AC10s and then my PPCs... I have little to fight with and then it didn't take long for them to focus down my shadowhawk... thats when I hit the withdraw button... my first withdrawal against medium mechs...

I felt like I was playing against myself! LOL! Imagine fighting from one end of the map all the way to the other end! LOL! It was intense! AI was disarming me the way I would disarm the AI in order to have an edge. I need to improve my skills now! LOL! Its not like I don't have an edge there... the enemies are stock and I am heavily customed... I easily have twice their firepower so in terms of firepower, both sides should be largely on par even though I was badly outnumbered. Basically, I shouldn't have let them box me in by going behind a rock for a heat break. That was my big mistake there... perhaps the same scenario on a icy biome would turn out differently? I would never know... lots to learn from this defeat.

It was painful but FUN! Thank goodness I have enough cbills and backup pilots to take this loss... Behemoth had to die for this though...

Loving your mod and the pain it brings!

 

[Amechwarrior]

Pls dun ever give up the project! I play like A LOT... clocked that 200 hours in just 1.5 months... so I would love to keep providing you with feedback and suggestions if you like.

You mentioned that locking targets don't give firing priority but when I played against the vanilla AI, I always get lurmed and PPCed after getting locked on. Perhaps there's actually a way of making it work? vanilla AI seems to already be doing it.

(I hadn't ran into this scenario with your mod yet sir but I can only imagine how terrifying running into a LRM60 carrier truck can be!!!!!!!!!!!!! With a lance too slow to chase it down and it deliberately keeping out of visual or even radar range, it can be terrifying! This reason alone, spiders or locusts remain strategically important with your mod to hunt down such abominations! LOL!)

Latest battle: Amazingly, AI was systematically taking out my biggest weapon on the field, the AC20 on the centurion right arm... no matter how I point the centurion, they were deliberately going around to the other side to shoot at that arm until at last they got it! WOW! Thats how I would have played it if I was the opposition! Was this a deliberate programing? Even though I won the battle, I lost that AC20 and it cost more than I made from the mission... sigh... good times!

Yes, the AI tallies up your force and picks either the lowest armor, or highest threat unit. Sometimes, like a BJ-1, that's close to the top of both lists and will set it is the priority target. Given this target isn't too evasive and there isn't a target of opportunity at ×% better to-hit it will focus on that one. The stock AI has a variable set to true that prevents this. One that says something like "Does being shot at distract from priority targeting?" And I turned that off. Disabling reserve and target focus are probably the two biggest shackles the AI has in stock.

Glad to hear it made you withdraw. I put out the 1.0 when it made me do my first ejection and withdraw. Figured that was mature enough.

 

[Pr8dator]

Yes, the AI tallies up your force and picks either the lowest armor, or highest threat unit. Sometimes, like a BJ-1, that's close to the top of both lists and will set it is the priority target. Given this target isn't too evasive and there isn't a target of opportunity at ×% better to-hit it will focus on that one. The stock AI has a variable set to true that prevents this. One that says something like "Does being shot at distract from priority targeting?" And I turned that off. Disabling reserve and target focus are probably the two biggest shackles the AI has in stock.

Glad to hear it made you withdraw. I put out the 1.0 when it made me do my first ejection and withdraw. Figured that was mature enough.

Hahahaha yes ... i need to play with it more but so far, this seems to be a sweet spot for someone who really wants a challenge! Definitely not for the weak of heart haha

I like how the enemy performance self preservation aka armor cycling with its lance mates when armor is low and DELIBERATELY pointing the side i am working on away from me. Both behaviors i did not see in vanilla. Was it part of the design?

 

[Amechwarrior]

Hahahaha yes ... i need to play with it more but so far, this seems to be a sweet spot for someone who really wants a challenge! Definitely not for the weak of heart haha

I like how the enemy performance self preservation aka armor cycling with its lance mates when armor is low and DELIBERATELY pointing the side i am working on away from me. Both behaviors i did not see in vanilla. Was it part of the design?

Yes, there are also disabled weights for "face weak side away from fire?" That I added back in and valued strongly.

 

[Pr8dator]

Yes, there are also disabled weights for "face weak side away from fire?" That I added back in and valued strongly.

LOL! Awesome! That alone increases the difficulty for most people by quite a bit I think due to having to fight off much more armor than before.

Patched up my lance after that disastrous mission and launched 2 skulls against a 3 skull mission. This time, I controlled the flow like a boss, the AI never had a chance hahaha walked away without any internal damage and feeling a strong sense of accomplishment as the AI was really putting up a good fight and tried to force me into bad positions but I had the good side of the map and they simply can't get to or around my position easily... aced that one. Love it when things flow against a tough opponent!

 

[SQW]

Which AI file did you download @Pr8dator ?

 

[Pr8dator]

Which AI file did you download @Pr8dator ?

The 1.0 release version of Better AI by @Amechwarrior

 

[Pr8dator]

Yes, the AI tallies up your force and picks either the lowest armor, or highest threat unit. Sometimes, like a BJ-1, that's close to the top of both lists and will set it is the priority target. Given this target isn't too evasive and there isn't a target of opportunity at ×% better to-hit it will focus on that one. The stock AI has a variable set to true that prevents this. One that says something like "Does being shot at distract from priority targeting?" And I turned that off. Disabling reserve and target focus are probably the two biggest shackles the AI has in stock.

Glad to hear it made you withdraw. I put out the 1.0 when it made me do my first ejection and withdraw. Figured that was mature enough.

Further observations today:
AI Firestarter I encountered today didn't just run into and flame me like they always used to but actually held out until my heat was relatively high before running in for the flame, VERY effectively. Prior to that, it was just slightly out of sight and pinging for the team. Amazing behavior there, was it a deliberate design? Was the AI programmed to use weapons when it is most effective to do so? Or was that random?

 

[Amechwarrior]

Further observations today:
AI Firestarter I encountered today didn't just run into and flame me like they always used to but actually held out until my heat was relatively high before running in for the flame, VERY effectively. Prior to that, it was just slightly out of sight and pinging for the team. Amazing behavior there, was it a deliberate design? Was the AI programmed to use weapons when it is most effective to do so? Or was that random?

Yep, the scout role is basically that, skirt the edges and come in a little later and try to hit the rear. Let me know if you encounter any SHD-2D or QKD outside of a story mission. I reassigned them scout roles from the default brawler and am looking for more feedback about how they act in game.

 

[Pr8dator]

Yep, the scout role is basically that, skirt the edges and come in a little later and try to hit the rear. Let me know if you encounter any SHD-2D or QKD outside of a story mission. I reassigned them scout roles from the default brawler and am looking for more feedback about how they act in game.

I just ran into a striker SHD-2D along with 2 defender vindicators supported by a LRM60 and Shrek truck.

The SHD-2D approached and stopped just outside of visual range. My lance jumped on it and it died the next round so I can't tell if its behaving differently.
I also like how your AI mod makes the enemy play their mechwarrior expertise as well! Those 2 vindicators really posted up and bulwarked like a boss for several rounds before I forced them out of position. In the vanilla, I can't feel the enemy using bulwark at all i.e Defenders are rushing me and not posting up etc.

 

[Amechwarrior]

I just ran into a striker SHD-2D along with 2 defender vindicators supported by a LRM60 and Shrek truck.

The SHD-2D approached and stopped just outside of visual range. My lance jumped on it and it died the next round so I can't tell if its behaving differently.
I also like how your AI mod makes the enemy play their mechwarrior expertise as well! Those 2 vindicators really posted up and bulwarked like a boss for several rounds before I forced them out of position. In the vanilla, I can't feel the enemy using bulwark at all i.e Defenders are rushing me and not posting up etc.

Yea, this is my problem with 2D's in general, they die too fast. I was thinking swapping them to the scout role would help them stay safe for an extra round or two before moving in but I'm also getting feedback from others that it isn't working out so well.

 

[SQW]

Does AI with Bulwark and Acepilot still move after going into bulwark?

 

[Pr8dator]

Yep, the scout role is basically that, skirt the edges and come in a little later and try to hit the rear. Let me know if you encounter any SHD-2D or QKD outside of a story mission. I reassigned them scout roles from the default brawler and am looking for more feedback about how they act in game.

Set up and played a skirmish to test the SHD and QKD.

20M
enemy: locust 1V + Vindicator + SHD-2D + QKD (with one ML removed to make the 20M limit)
Me: Spider + 2 Cataphract

My spider did what it always did running flank of the enemy and luring them away from the main force. The locust and the QKD took the bait, ran into visual range of my cataphracts after the spider, shooting ineffectively. All these while the SHD and the vindicator stayed out of visual range in the back, pinging and taking pot shots.

Because the QKD ran out into visual range after the spider very aggressive, showing its side to my 2 cataphracts, it took only 1.5 rounds to kill it by banging through its right torso and hence its CT.

Locust chased my spider up a cliff before I gave it the off the cliff shake off... so basically, it had to go back around and down the cliff, taking itself out of the fight.

Spider circled around the back of the map to get visual and back shot on the vindicator. Vindicator returned fire while standing still in the forest towards the back of the map but the SHD back tracked and pinged one of my cats instead. At this time, due to the visual provided by the spider, I was able to get my large lasers on the vindicator from beyond their visual.

SHD at this point made an extremely smart strategic move, running up towards my spider and then one shotted it. I lost visual on the enemy team... I had to close in and quickly...

Since they are direct fire strong and LRM weak, I decided to sprint both cataphracts forward behind that big rock in between us and the enemy lance. Locust continued pinging us but they could only hit us with a single ineffective LRM. Behind the safety of the rock, 6 Large laser blasts from both cataphracts killed the locust even though we had only 40ish % chance to hit. It was fast, but not fast enough for a hailstorm of lasers!

During that 1 round where we were busy killing the locust, surprisingly, both the vindicator and the SHD has left their nests at the back of the map and have proceeded all the way up to the other side of the rock we are at. A strange position to be in for mechs armed mostly with long range weapons. I took the initiative to turn around the rock to face them and saw both of them with their right side facing me. Both cats fired into the right side of the SHD and took away everything on the right, torso, arm and leg. It fell. Vindicator ran back into the forest behind and returned fire. SHD got up and instead of running, it stood there and fired at me... so it was promptly taken out. Next round, we turned our attention on the vindicator and it just cannot stand under the might of 10 Large lasers firing in unison. It fell right there... we won the day.

So overall, I felt like the SHD was very ineffective as a scout or a sniper... basically it did nothing but getting killed as its single LRM5 and AC5 really didn't do very much imo. QKD was anything but a scout... it rushed headlong into battle and promptly got slaughtered.

Honestly, i don't know how more effective a stock 2D can be... its just a really lousy mech with badly designed bracket weapons. Even in the lore, it was problematic and had trouble being competitive. It could make some problems for me if it maintained distance, skirmished around the sides and take potshots but even that, the vindicator does it way better with a PPC and a LRM10. Maybe give it a go in the skirmisher role?

 

[Amechwarrior]

Set up and played a skirmish to test the SHD and QKD.

20M
enemy: locust 1V + Vindicator + SHD-2D + QKD (with one ML removed to make the 20M limit)
Me: Spider + 2 Cataphract

My spider did what it always did running flank of the enemy and luring them away from the main force. The locust and the QKD took the bait, ran into visual range of my cataphracts after the spider, shooting ineffectively. All these while the SHD and the vindicator stayed out of visual range in the back, pinging and taking pot shots.

Because the QKD ran out into visual range after the spider very aggressive, showing its side to my 2 cataphracts, it took only 1.5 rounds to kill it by banging through its right torso and hence its CT.

Locust chased my spider up a cliff before I gave it the off the cliff shake off... so basically, it had to go back around and down the cliff, taking itself out of the fight.

Spider circled around the back of the map to get visual and back shot on the vindicator. Vindicator returned fire while standing still in the forest towards the back of the map but the SHD back tracked and pinged one of my cats instead. At this time, due to the visual provided by the spider, I was able to get my large lasers on the vindicator from beyond their visual.

SHD at this point made an extremely smart strategic move, running up towards my spider and then one shotted it. I lost visual on the enemy team... I had to close in and quickly...

Since they are direct fire strong and LRM weak, I decided to sprint both cataphracts forward behind that big rock in between us and the enemy lance. Locust continued pinging us but they could only hit us with a single ineffective LRM. Behind the safety of the rock, 6 Large laser blasts from both cataphracts killed the locust even though we had only 40ish % chance to hit. It was fast, but not fast enough for a hailstorm of lasers!

During that 1 round where we were busy killing the locust, surprisingly, both the vindicator and the SHD has left their nests at the back of the map and have proceeded all the way up to the other side of the rock we are at. A strange position to be in for mechs armed mostly with long range weapons. I took the initiative to turn around the rock to face them and saw both of them with their right side facing me. Both cats fired into the right side of the SHD and took away everything on the right, torso, arm and leg. It fell. Vindicator ran back into the forest behind and returned fire. SHD got up and instead of running, it stood there and fired at me... so it was promptly taken out. Next round, we turned our attention on the vindicator and it just cannot stand under the might of 10 Large lasers firing in unison. It fell right there... we won the day.

So overall, I felt like the SHD was very ineffective as a scout or a sniper... basically it did nothing but getting killed as its single LRM5 and AC5 really didn't do very much imo. QKD was anything but a scout... it rushed headlong into battle and promptly got slaughtered.

Honestly, i don't know how more effective a stock 2D can be... its just a really lousy mech with badly designed bracket weapons. Even in the lore, it was problematic and had trouble being competitive. It could make some problems for me if it maintained distance, skirmished around the sides and take potshots but even that, the vindicator does it way better with a PPC and a LRM10. Maybe give it a go in the skirmisher role?

Oddly, I doubt either was acting as a scout as you had too many. The dynamic roles are just that, dynamic and adjust depending on a few rules. Like if you drop with too many scouts in the Lance, 3 in your case, they usually won't pull scouts and all trigger brawler. Then, once you had the VND/SHD that should have gone sniper and scout/brawler there is another rule limiting snipers to 50% or less of the force and with just two units, I've seen the logs just fall back to the brawler default more times than I'd like. I think this is why I like how the AI acts in SP missions more than skirmish. You usually have two Lances in contact and the larger pool lets those specialist roles last longer.

 

[Pr8dator]

Oddly, I doubt either was acting as a scout as you had too many. The dynamic roles are just that, dynamic and adjust depending on a few rules. Like if you drop with too many scouts in the Lance, 3 in your case, they usually won't pull scouts and all trigger brawler. Then, once you had the VND/SHD that should have gone sniper and scout/brawler there is another rule limiting snipers to 50% or less of the force and with just two units, I've seen the logs just fall back to the brawler default more times than I'd like. I think this is why I like how the AI acts in SP missions more than skirmish. You usually have two Lances in contact and the larger pool lets those specialist roles last longer.

I see! I will take note of future encounters with either mech in campaign and feedback!

 

[Pr8dator]

Oddly, I doubt either was acting as a scout as you had too many. The dynamic roles are just that, dynamic and adjust depending on a few rules. Like if you drop with too many scouts in the Lance, 3 in your case, they usually won't pull scouts and all trigger brawler. Then, once you had the VND/SHD that should have gone sniper and scout/brawler there is another rule limiting snipers to 50% or less of the force and with just two units, I've seen the logs just fall back to the brawler default more times than I'd like. I think this is why I like how the AI acts in SP missions more than skirmish. You usually have two Lances in contact and the larger pool lets those specialist roles last longer.

Just finished battle with a lance of 2 QKD (both the lrm and non lrm) + 1 BJ + 1 Griffin all full cond.

The griffin was the tactician so it stayed mostly behind the lines pinging targets while the QKDs both charge forward and engage like brawlers do. So, not seeing the scout behavior in that either but question, if the mech in question isn't a tactician and can't ping targets, whats the scout role? Both QKDs were defenders.

Killed them with just 4 meds without losing a single limb haha.