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Giffica

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Does anyone know of an easy way to buy buildings? My Korean Empire that's conquered all of Siberia, Colonized the entirety of SEA (and conquered the malayan nations), given Japan a taste of it's own medicine, Invaded Han china after Zhou breaks off, PU Integrated Oirat Horde, and started taking my stake in East Africa before Portgual get's too happy is a bit of a mess to manage. I have like, 300 provinces. Buying all the buildings is quite...impossible? I spend a solid 99% of my time buying buildings VS actually playing the game, and expanding into the Swahili Nations, or taking over all of Thailand/Vietnam is more of a hassle than more bonus to me. There is just no point in it. It's just another 20 provinces for me to buy buildings on. That's all it gives me. That's if I even have the time to manage fabricating claims during all the time I spend buying buildings! I can deal with spending a solid 10 seconds scrolling across my empire, but doing that while buying buildings just removes ANY fun in the late game. I have 300k manpower, and 10k gold (I gain 400 per), but I can't do anything with my troops or ships cause all I'm doing is buying buildings (which, I can't buy fast enough to actually cost me any money. Even when I buy the manufacturing buildings).

I think you get the picture.

So is there any way to buy buildings for a 300 province+ empire? I can't ever finish games for this reason. One guy in Spain wasn't managing every single province in the Spanish Empire. There were thousands of people doing that micro managing for him. Is there a mod, or even something in the base game that I am just missing? Or do I just have to suck this up and never play past 1650?
 

unmerged(177849)

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I find using the ledger for that, or the buildings button on the upper left hand corner of the screen, quite easy, even for a very large empire. If you haven't been using those two parts of the interface, that should solve your problem. If you have, and are still having problems, I don't know what to tell you.
 

delpiero1234

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Don't build buildings once your empire gets large. The cost of Monarch Points is not worth the reward.
Why is that? Because buildings either increase manpower or increase your wealth. Large empires are in no need of money and in no need of more manpower and if they are then they are doing something wrong.
Buying 60 armories in accepted culture provinces increases your base manpower by 1500 I believe. But instead of wasting 600 Military Power on 1500 manpower you could buy a single tech (in western tech group without any modifiers)
 

amunkelw

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You can build more efficiently by using the menu in the top left, but if that's not enough... Maybe turn down the game speed or pause every once in a while to do a big wave of them?
 

eugene171

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Don't build buildings once your empire gets large. The cost of Monarch Points is not worth the reward.
Why is that? Because buildings either increase manpower or increase your wealth. Large empires are in no need of money and in no need of more manpower and if they are then they are doing something wrong.
Buying 60 armories in accepted culture provinces increases your base manpower by 1500 I believe. But instead of wasting 600 Military Power on 1500 manpower you could buy a single tech (in western tech group without any modifiers)

But what of when your tech is too far ahead?

I find more utility in 6 buildings than a 10% tech increase for admin and diplo points the vast majority of the time. With military, my tech cost as a western nation is often above the 999 MP cap, so it's buildings, generals, harsh treatment, or waste. buildings are the longest-lasting of these options.
 

Morwys

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But what of when your tech is too far ahead?

I find more utility in 6 buildings than a 10% tech increase for admin and diplo points the vast majority of the time. With military, my tech cost as a western nation is often above the 999 MP cap, so it's buildings, generals, harsh treatment, or waste. buildings are the longest-lasting of these options.

This. Every time I see someone explaining the 'sound' strategy of never building anything, I wonder were do their wasted points go to. With a western GP, you'll be swimming in MP and gold eventually. It's better to spend those points to increase TP and tax, manpower and forcelimits as well.
 

Sensational

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This. Every time I see someone explaining the 'sound' strategy of never building anything, I wonder were do their wasted points go to. With a western GP, you'll be swimming in MP and gold eventually. It's better to spend those points to increase TP and tax, manpower and forcelimits as well.
As far as that strategy goes, used to be that you're wasting your MP on buildings when they could go into ideas. If you manage your idea groups properly you never swim in MP.

Adjust for 1.5 coalitions, and you might as well build every building in every province. You know, all 50 of them that you'll have by the 1800s.
 

delpiero1234

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This. Every time I see someone explaining the 'sound' strategy of never building anything, I wonder were do their wasted points go to. With a western GP, you'll be swimming in MP and gold eventually. It's better to spend those points to increase TP and tax, manpower and forcelimits as well.
Ok I don't know what your goals are in EU IV but I like to conquer and create large empires.
Therefore I use my ADM points mainly for tech, ideas and coring (for provinces that I cannot feed to vassals).
My DIP point I use mainly for peace deal negotiating, ideas, recruitment of admirals and teching. If I still swim in dip points I culture-convert provinces because it lowers revolt risk. Better to culture convert than to build buildings.
MIL points I use for tech (good to be ahead of time in MIL), ideas, recruitment of generals (it's better to dismiss a bad general and to recruit a good one), assaulting fortresses.

If you use your monarch points wisely then you never have to use them on buildings.
 

Carkasjak

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Press B, select the building you want to build, and go nuts? Generally only worth it if you want to avoid hitting a monarch power cap, though. You really really don't need to build buildings in every province.

Adjust for 1.5 coalitions, and you might as well build every building in every province. You know, all 50 of them that you'll have by the 1800s.
It's getting pretty silly when people derail every thread into exaggerations about coalitions being oh so bad. I agree that there should be better rewards for fighting them, and more ways to get rid of them other than just waiting out a timer. However, it's not nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be.
 
Last edited:

TheMeInTeam

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Manufactories are one of the better choices for pure money, because they mostly cost money so it turns into gold-engine for small #monarch points. Other buildings are situational, but as has been pointed military points are often in abundance.

Press B, select the building you want to build, and go nuts? Generally only worth it if you want to avoid hitting a monarch power cap, though. You really really don't need to build buildings in every province.

Building that way & prioritizing the best provinces is more efficient, but if you *really* want to spam things out everywhere, ledger is the fastest probably.
 

Giffica

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I find using the ledger for that, or the buildings button on the upper left hand corner of the screen, quite easy, even for a very large empire. If you haven't been using those two parts of the interface, that should solve your problem. If you have, and are still having problems, I don't know what to tell you.
I will have to check this out. I use the ledger, I just didn't use it for the purpose. Does it give me a list of provinces and let me buy buildings on those provinces?


Don't build buildings once your empire gets large. The cost of Monarch Points is not worth the reward.
Why is that? Because buildings either increase manpower or increase your wealth. Large empires are in no need of money and in no need of more manpower and if they are then they are doing something wrong.
Buying 60 armories in accepted culture provinces increases your base manpower by 1500 I believe. But instead of wasting 600 Military Power on 1500 manpower you could buy a single tech (in western tech group without any modifiers)
Two things.

First one being I play the game two different ways depending on my mood. One that removes Monarch points cost for buildings so they only cost cash. Then there is zero reason NOT to buy them. So in that case what you said doesn't apply. I typically play with a bunch of mods in that case, as well as the Extra Idea Groups and Tenth Idea mod. The other way I play is MORE vanilla with those two mods (cause I quite like the additional ways to play and more dynamic environment they give), n which case buildings do cost manpower. In such a case I don't buy buildings as much, aside from stuff like Temples, Constables, Armories/Barracks/Etc in select provinces to reduce the cost of buying troops, occasionally Trade Power buildings (something like a market place in the Bordeaux provinces in Spain because I generally leave France a long, but my rule of thumb is trade power buildings in an area where I have no intention to take 100% of the node so I need the extra trade power), and then certain buildings on the beneficial trade goods provinces. In such a case what you said applies. I also play on a higher difficulty so it's much slower to expand. Such a game with Korea by 1650 is impossible.

The second fact is that money has no value. That's the thing one must keep in mind. That's WHY buildings have Monarch points. However, if you are playing Korea, or even Brunei/Japan, or a Horde, well, essentially Monarch points have much less value than they would if you were West/East or even Ottoman. Adm is the most valuable, to get the Idea groups unlocked since there is no extra cost. But if you are Korea for example, Westernizing takes ages and ages. next to Japan, they are probably one of the hardest nations to Westernize with unless you quickly rush to africa, which I don't like cause I would much prefer locking out SEA from foreign powers VS sticking a province next to them while they put one in my area of domination then proceed to crush me. Them having massive attrition to even get to Aceh makes it impossible for them to ever assault me. Due to this, you spend most the game with that huge, huge tech cost. So monarch points have......little value as well. Few reasons for that. First being just the massive cost. You don't wanna stay ahead. It's BETTER to stay behind. You want to be 8 techs behind europe. That way you can westernize upon meeting them. Korea is a bit more unique due to their insanely low tech costs compared to the rest of Area. -10% from their ideas. Plus, if you let the Ming, or whoever get ahead of you on tech, it lowers your costs. So you save more from that modifier for getting behind than you would if you stayed ahead. So either get the techs before them (let's take a rough estimate, 950 cost for the tech), or you can wait for the neighbor bonus, and with the amount it saves you (depends on the neighbor bonus, say 5, or 10%), -10% from that 950, you could buy builds+that tech. So you get the same tech+save monarch points which you can spend on buildings. So what's the point of getting ahead on tech? Zero. It HURTS you. Especially as Korea, or Japan. Who are you fighting? There is no one to fight as either of those countries (once you PU the Oirat, take out the Manchu who are significantly behind due to their modifier, and Korea/Japan). If you have no experience in the region, Ming are arguably the least aggressive nation in the game, and end up having a harder time preventing Zhou from breaking. They are no threat, and even then a ming that is 1-2 mil techs ahead of you a joke when you have 100k manpower, defensive ideas, and they can't get into your lands due to the insane attrition they take in siberia. You just throw stacks of 30 at them until they break. You are the Asian russia. You cannot lose. Dip techs are useless, and you always get behind anyway due to Exploration+Expansion ideas for your 1st and 2nd ideas. So you are already massively behind, which is good cause then the techs cost 500 VS 950 they normally cost. So why spent Monarch points on Dip tech VS buildings? Adm, as I said, is the one valuable one due to the ideas they let you take. But really, Temples+Constables VS Adm tech 6? What does Adm tech 6 gives you? Nothing that valuable over buying those buildings. And again, this is Asia. You want to stay AT LEAST 8 techs behind the west. In the game I mentioned, I was 2 techs behind Mil, 6 on Dip, 2-3 on Adm from Portugal. The tech leader doesn't matter. All that matters is how behind portugal you are, and they are never the tech leader anyway. As long as you get Carracks, combined with Korea's +10% heavy ship combat ability, 60-70 carracks will dwarf anything korea can throw at you, even if they are 5-8 dip techs ahead. So why would I care about those techs?

Again, Korea is in such a unique position where Monarch points have zero value to you. There are zero threats in Asia after you take down Manchu. That's it. Manchu and you are #1. Once you take out japan (which is insanely easy due to being able to blockage the straights in 5 of Japan's provinces), you have Naval superiority over the ming. And once you colonize Siberia you have Manpower/Force limits over Ming. SEA colonies give you gold over China. And, that combined with their horrible internal stability issues and their joke aggressiveness against anyone, Korea is god level invincible. Your biggest threat is Russia, but once you colonize Siberia they have ONE province bordering you. Fort Level 4+That 500 gold defensive building with 4-5 stacks of 15 units means Russia is absolutely not going to do jack crap against you. Nor do they want to.

Let me explain why Korea is in such a uniuqe position. While I agree what you say applies to say, Castile who needs to stay up in Mil tech with France, and Dip tech with England, Korea doesn't have that issue.
Korean Ideas are so, so drastically incredible. People praise Prussia, which is great an all, but Prussia has Military based Unique ideas surrounded by Austria, Scandinavia, Russia/Poland/Commonwealth, France, and even England and Castile if they care to bother you. Korea has zero threats or rivals and no one to stop them. -20% build cost (which combined with Economic Idea's means you get such a huge value from buying buildings as them, this combined with why i said monarch points are valueless means buildings are SUPER valuable), +25% trade power to dominate the asia trade game entirely with your 80+ trade ships, -5% tech cost which not only allows you to stay ahead on Military tech early game, but lets you dwarf Japan/Manchu when it matters so that you can steam role them into becoming invincible in asia+upon westernizing means you are 100% always the tech leader, -10% stability cost for constant 3 stability for this massive empire that has zero religious issues (aside from Japan which is Shinto, everything is either Buddhist or Confucian so you A. don't need to worry about zealots. B. can easy convert with those tiny stability costs), +10% production efficiency that not only lets you out pace the EUROPEANS when it comes to colonizing, but allows you to outpace Russia more importantly so you can get that 1 province gap that blocks them from Siberia entirely), +5% heavy ship combat ability which means 100% naval dominance, and even the europeans have a hard time fighting you pre and post westernization (navy are always equal), especially if you are against portugal. Maybe Netherlands/England, but Portugal? They are a joke and a half. +10% manpower puts you ahead of russia and ming china, even before zhou breaks off, -10% Idea cost, which means you have such a massive excess of monarch points, +10% nation tax+-20% building cost+another -20% buildcost means you have so much money to throw around it's a joke, and finally +10% infantry combat ability so that the Eastern Tech group units from Russia, and the Ming military (when you do inevitably decide to down Han china) is really not that big of an issue.

Take all of that with Korea's typical Exploration>Expansion>Economic>Defensive/Plutocratic ideas and really, it's such a joke. you are getting a solid 50% production efficiency. You get 4 merchants total from all of that (unlike portugal, castile, england, who want to take trade idea's to get that money, Asia's unique set up for trade (being such that you move your capital to Beijing, and there are only TWO nodes which go into Beijing's Node. Nippon (100% control, no merchant), and Hangzhou. So you pull from Hangzhou, pull from Canton up to Hangzhou, collect from Beijing, and that last merchant you shove into Philippines to collect there. Then the national decisions for +1 merchant gives you another if you maybe wanna pull into the Malayan Area from Phillipines, and Collect from Malay assuming you took out all of the nations in that trade node, which, are a joke to take down. Plutocratic's very useful for a country like korea where it gives the perfect merchant amount+keeps stability between Confucian/Buddhist, and Morale is always nice, production efficiency for faster colonizing, -1 national revolt risk (again added to the tolerance of heathens, your permanent 2-3 stability due to Korea's low cost to buy stability, no revolts in your massive nation), manpower recovery from it means you literally can throw troops and you recover your massive manpower pool faster than you burn it in battles against Ming/Russia. And Economic Idea's are a must for large, colonizing nations, with the eventual 6-8 gold mines you end up with as Korea. (1 native to Kai in Japan, 1-2 that you get in Siberia, and the 5 in East Africa). So Economic are a MUST as Korea. And they are frankly extremely synergistic as well. (Production efficiency+build cost=fast colonizing, easy building buying). Combined that with any of the trade good bonuses and you are so overly powerful.

So yeh, I hope that at least explains why Monarch points have no value as Korea (you want to stay behind, and it's easy to catch up once you westernize, and idea costs are so valuable/cheap so you have a lot left over), and why buildings are so easy (-40% buildcost, the 500 cost buildings become 300). Even saying all of that, I was ALWAYS 6 or so years ahead on Mil tech. And Mil tech is the only tech you really "want" to stay ahead in, simply so you don't end up 5 behind Russia and they steam roll you, even with your manpower. But again, manpower buildings are the last you buy anyway, aside from a few cost provinces that you buy your actual troops in (the 100 mil power in those ~10 provinces per building set is worth what they save you).

Maybe I have no idea what I am doing though. I have 400 hours, but frankly I could be entirely wrong and someone could explain why. I am open to being wrong on all of this XD
 

Giffica

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This. Every time I see someone explaining the 'sound' strategy of never building anything, I wonder were do their wasted points go to. With a western GP, you'll be swimming in MP and gold eventually. It's better to spend those points to increase TP and tax, manpower and forcelimits as well.
Not to mention I have my mega empire as Korea. Where the 900 base cost per tech is so high, that you want the modifier from neighbor bonus. Tech's have zero advantage as an Asian (or Indian, I guess) nation. No one goes to war in Asia. There are no mega threats like France, Castile, Austria, Burgundy, Denmark/Sweden, Russia, Poland, Ottomans, England. You get it. There can, and only ever is, 1 massive super power that controls the entirety of Asia. It's always the players nation since you get 100% colonization control. And even if I was say 5 mil tech behind Ayutt, I mean, I have 200 troops VS their at most 50. Korea and Japan both get a national idea finisher that gives infantry combat ability bonus. (+10% for Korea, +25% for japan). With your 100-300k manpower, massive combat ability, and morale/whatever else from taking Defensive/Plutocratic idea's, what the hell is anyone gonna do? Your only threat is the West. Which are not a threat since their navies are a joke. Portugal is almost always the first to Asia, so you westernize off them. England or Castile? Maybe their Navies would be a threat. But my 90 Heavy Ships, 100+ Light Ships, and however many cogs is going to stop anybody. Plus, if they DO declare war on me due to my african provinces, that is how much of my empire? it gives them zero war score. And if they want to get to Asia, I have the entire SEA colonized, including all the little hopper islands, so the attrition they take coming into my neck of the woods means even if they GET TO MY SHIPS they are so dead already. Not to mention Korea's bonus to Heavy Ship combat ability.
 

zedyue

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Plus in the ledger you can sort according to base tax or production value (unfortunately I don't think you can sort by trade value but production value works okay for that) and manpower and religion etc so you can build in the most 'efficient' provinces.

However unless you're mass building army buildings, its better to just build clusters of those for recruitment locations

EDIT: 90% sure the ai doesn't take sea attrition because it hasn't been coded to behave properly around sea attrition at this time.
 

Giffica

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Plus in the ledger you can sort according to base tax or production value (unfortunately I don't think you can sort by trade value but production value works okay for that) and manpower and religion etc so you can build in the most 'efficient' provinces.

However unless you're mass building army buildings, its better to just build clusters of those for recruitment locations

EDIT: 90% sure the ai doesn't take sea attrition because it hasn't been coded to behave properly around sea attrition at this time.
Generally speaking army buildings are the worst to build. I always build them last (considering I haven't even gotten that far...). You get 300k manpower without them. Trade buildings give you half as much. I rarely buy them, aside from those small clusters due to decreasing cost to build armys and maintain them.

Ah well, regardless, it's not like the AI can get a colony from West Africa into Australia. (Australia is generally the last place you colonize). By 1650 the AI does NOT have the colony range needed for that. They get locked out of ever being a threat.
 

Morwys

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As far as that strategy goes, used to be that you're wasting your MP on buildings when they could go into ideas. If you manage your idea groups properly you never swim in MP.

Adjust for 1.5 coalitions, and you might as well build every building in every province. You know, all 50 of them that you'll have by the 1800s.

I always had a lot in MP and gold, since game launch. I always go full Trade+Naval building everywhere when colonial and full Trade+Production when not. I only build everything in my capital. Home provinces I usually go full Trade+Production+Army or Naval. I noticed that, after Colonial Nations were introduced, it became easier to build everywhere for the simple reason that you have less provinces. Unless I had very shitty rulers, I were never short on MP.

Ok I don't know what your goals are in EU IV but I like to conquer and create large empires.

Mine too.

Therefore I use my ADM points mainly for tech, ideas and coring (for provinces that I cannot feed to vassals).
My DIP point I use mainly for peace deal negotiating, ideas, recruitment of admirals and teching. If I still swim in dip points I culture-convert provinces because it lowers revolt risk. Better to culture convert than to build buildings.

The amount of provinces you can't vassal feed should be minimal. Of Ideas that use ADM points, other than Innovative and Economic, there's nothing much worth the effort. I usually just pick one of them. I never culture convert provinces because that's useless. Buildings at least give me gold or manpower.

I use ADM points for tech and ideas, almost never for coring. If I can't vassal feed them, I use harsh treatment, since military points are always abundant. Some provinces, usually those with more than 50~60 points to core, I never core. It's cheaper to just dump military points in them forever. Also, if there's no vassal to feed, I often conquer then release as vassal. Regardless, even when I core everything, there
MIL points I use for tech (good to be ahead of time in MIL), ideas, recruitment of generals (it's better to dismiss a bad general and to recruit a good one), assaulting fortresses.

If you use your monarch points wisely then you never have to use them on buildings.

I always use them on buildings, I'm never short and I always manage to build my empires. If you're short on points, it's because you should learn how to play first.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Westernizing takes ages and ages. next to Japan, they are probably one of the hardest nations to Westernize with unless you quickly rush to africa,

Korea and Japan have been able to get a western border in the late 1400's-early 1500's in every patch iteration I'm aware of. However, since 1.4 you can't vassal other Asians if you do this, it sucks to do it so early anyway. Still, if you're a bit creative Korea is literally among the fastest nations in the game to click the button, if you want to do that. Korean Mexico FTW.

Regardless, if you DON'T westernize you want to gouge miltech so you can roll vassals out of all of Ming/India. Spending on ideas is still better than buildings, even for Korea, with a few exceptions. Ideas cost the same regardless of westernization, and extra relations + colonists both improve your expansion rate, as does dip reputation.
 
Last edited:

DominusNovus

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As far as that strategy goes, used to be that you're wasting your MP on buildings when they could go into ideas. If you manage your idea groups properly you never swim in MP.

I'm curious how you advise going about avoiding ever having too much MP in any given category. I tend to split my NIs pretty evenly between the three categories, and I still have plenty of times where one or two of my MPs are maxing out.
 

RandomZach

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As far as that strategy goes, used to be that you're wasting your MP on buildings when they could go into ideas. If you manage your idea groups properly you never swim in MP.

Once you have +3 advisors, you're going to cap out on your ideas well before you can invest in a new one unless you have an absolutely awful ruler. There's simply no way to spend enough points late game to prevent capping unless you buy buildings, which at that point are of marginal utility anyways. The last 150 years or so of most games I just end up sitting at the cap for large periods of time.
 

Morwys

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Once you have +3 advisors, you're going to cap out on your ideas well before you can invest in a new one unless you have an absolutely awful ruler. There's simply no way to spend enough points late game to prevent capping unless you buy buildings, which at that point are of marginal utility anyways. The last 150 years or so of most games I just end up sitting at the cap for large periods of time.

I disagree that they've got marginal utility. Specially those that give percentage-based bonuses, are astronomically useful. And regardless, 'sitting at the cap' for large periods of time is certainly useless.