East Muslim Blobs as of Reaper

[eternalsteelfan]

So, with the new patch and expansion it seems pre-1066 start blobs of the Abbas and Egypt are back to being super stable.

In the patch before Reaper's Due, they were in a pretty good place susceptible to revolts and collapse (historically). After a few 100 year+ games the Abbasids and Sultanate of Egypt (Tulunids) seem worse than ever. They both field armies larger than ever, crush rebellions, and expand at will outside of Byzantium. The Umayyads seem alright, but I haven't played in close proximity to them yet in RD.

On the plus side, the Shia revolt can actually succeed after a few tries. Unfortunately, it does little to hamper the Abbas. I saw a Shia revolt take all of Arabia yet the Abbasids income and levies were hardly impacted.

It was a large patch so it's hard to say what directly may have strengthen "The Usual Suspects" blobs, but a few observations:

- Prosperity is a force multiplier, the percentage bonuses having a huge effect for blobs

- Very high mortality rate means treaties are more useless than ever, being tied to characters, allowing blobs to grow faster. Theoretically, this would also mean long-rulers would be rarer but it also seems to weed out potential threats for revolt

Anyone else try RoTW? Thoughts?

 

[Aotrs Commander]

I am playing a game started in 769 in 2.5.1 before and into the new patch (both sans conclave) and both the Abbasids and the Umayyads have been increaibly stable all through to the current year (1040-something). The latter had basically taken over Hispania completely before I (as Rome) basically out-blobbed it.

So I'm not sure they were all that unstable in the last patch, at least in this one instance.

 

[eternalsteelfan]

I am playing a game started in 769 in 2.5.1 before and into the new patch (both sans conclave) and both the Abbasids and the Umayyads have been increaibly stable all through to the current year (1040-something). The latter had basically taken over Hispania completely before I (as Rome) basically out-blobbed it.

So I'm not sure they were all that unstable in the last patch, at least in this one instance.

At least with Conclave enabled, the Abassids seemed to collapse more often than not while the Umayyads were very stable and expansive.

As of Reaper's Due it seems the Abassids are very stable/expansive while the Umayyads at least stagnate.

For this thread, my comments are directed towards the Islamic states in the east in Reaper's Due. I haven't played in the west yet to accurately comment on the Umayyads other than what I can see, which hasn't been particularly noteworthy.

 

[Steel_atlas]

So, with the new patch and expansion it seems pre-1066 start blobs of the Abbas and Egypt are back to being super stable.

In the patch before Reaper's Due, they were in a pretty good place susceptible to revolts and collapse (historically). After a few 100 year+ games the Abbasids and Sultanate of Egypt (Tulunids) seem worse than ever. They both field armies larger than ever, crush rebellions, and expand at will outside of Byzantium. The Umayyads seem alright, but I haven't played in close proximity to them yet in RD.

On the plus side, the Shia revolt can actually succeed after a few tries. Unfortunately, it does little to hamper the Abbas. I saw a Shia revolt take all of Arabia yet the Abbasids income and levies were hardly impacted.

It was a large patch so it's hard to say what directly may have strengthen "The Usual Suspects" blobs, but a few observations:

- Prosperity is a force multiplier, the percentage bonuses having a huge effect for blobs

- Very high mortality rate means treaties are more useless than ever, being tied to characters, allowing blobs to grow faster. Theoretically, this would also mean long-rulers would be rarer but it also seems to weed out potential threats for revolt

Anyone else try RoTW? Thoughts?

I brought the concern up during a dev diary about prosperity creating a rich get richer and the weaker and weaker, but the devs were more interested in answering questions about cats and Norse.

All of the Blobs are way stronger then before, the Muslim ones are just absurd, the constant death helps them because it stops decadence from being an issue and the "drawback" of having gigantic families is now an incredible boon since it makes them semi immune to dynastic die out.

Also Charlie is a joke now, he dies even quicker.

Charlie needs to get retuned, at least given higher starting health and or the strong/brawny trait.

Non-Muslim territories need to have significantly lower levies for Muslims.

Decandence needs a major overhaul, and so does Iqta. The vassals need to either not be so loyal or provide much less in the way of levies.

Decadence needs to actually have teeth instead of doing nothing then insta-jibbing. The Abbaborg dont even seem to stay down after losing a decadence revolt that suceeds anymore.

 

[Ulfing]

Abassids lost a decadence revolt around 790 in my current game and then promptly exploded.

You're right about that multiplier though. Without much fighting on their inner land its just bags of grain everywhere. Thankfully Mesopotamia seems to get decimated frequently by all manner of disease leading to internal instability of the non-collapsing kind.

 

[eternalsteelfan]

Abassids lost a decadence revolt around 790 in my current game and then promptly exploded.

You're right about that multiplier though. Without much fighting on their inner land its just bags of grain everywhere. Thankfully Mesopotamia seems to get decimated frequently by all manner of disease leading to internal instability of the non-collapsing kind.

That's interesting, I've played mostly in 867. I'd imagine it's the weaker start, funny they would fall apart in that one. In my games they have lost one revolt ever, a Shia revolt.

I have noticed outbreaks on the plague map in Abassid land, but it hasn't done much. I'm thinking the stable bonuses of Prosperity exceed the downsides of illness.

For some better data on levy size, I've regularly seen the caliphate fielding levies of 26-30k before 1000 AD. At similar times on previous patches they'd be at 18-20k.

And on another side note I think I missed an obvious culprit: Silk Road changes.

 

[Ulfing]

It might just be a fluke, but its my only game of length at the moment (so much indecision as where to start...)