Allied defeat would be a most natural outcome if you dow the whole Axis in 1940 as USA started being played at Vichy, whining about the conditions is just easy but I believe one should review his own actions too.
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when the axis exploit the game system to avoid Belligerence to prevent USA gearing, then the whole spririt of the game mechanism is lost, what is so great about keeping US at 200 IC while Japan gets 250, Germany 500 and Italy has god knows how much?Predatororc said:
the declaration was simply to free the IC
and then Japan refused pearl harbour event
First of all avoiding the USA gearing was not intended, you can check the game log and see we were all about getting Japan to annex Netherlands. Think twice before you accuse people of intended gaminess. What I mean is not the DoW of course but the aggresive stance USA has taken this early, without being anywhere near ready. Japan is able to refuse to carry out the Pearl Harbor operation, it's plain stupid to give USA the benefits of that event.
thats the same logic of saying, France can choose fight to the death over Vichy becuase its plain stupid to give Germany the benefits of that event!Predatororc said:
I believe there's a rule saying France should accept the Vichy event but nothing like that in this case so its up to the Japanese player and unless Japan is actually prepared for a blitz invasion, its reasonable and advisable not to choose carrying out the operation.
von_Manstein11 said:
Whatever you may think of the use of the Pearl Harbour event, and its effect on game balance is completely theoretical, your entire set of supposition about what USA should and should not have, and what USA needs at 1940 are based completely on vanilla game dynamics. The fundamental fact of the modifications made to this game is that Japan, and therefore the whole Axis is borked considerably: fundamentally the Axis plays the game without the benefit of a 100 ic nation, 200 to 300 land armies, and with a far less favourable strategic position.
Slight nerfing of the USSR (hardly at all since it seems that Geo has gathered for himself 318 base IC by May 1940) and the not allowing USA to be played by Allies at start are the compensation that the Axis recieve.
This on top of the fact, that one of the main reasons that most rules allow for USA at start, instead of human France, is because human France is to considered too strong. And we allowed this!
With solid play should be able to result in a comparable game balance to vanilla, or at least a good game. Unfortunately yours was far from solid. You simply threw divisions after division into the maw of a very tiny Japanese Tiger, as if there was no tomorrow. If you play like this, I am really not suprised that you need human USA at start to have a chance.
Now it appears that you are blaming the game structure and the other players for taking advantage of your seriously flawed play. Terrible play actually. You did everything in your power to make USA lose the intitial conflict in the Pacific seemingly.
About the belligerence. You are seeing ghost and spiders. Predator is right, a review of the entire game log will reveal that not one single discussion was had about reducing belligerence in order to prevent a US DOW. And why would there be when I made the following comments on this very issue, on the Saturday thread:
Discussion with Adam East is Red Saturday
So in fact, I support your position that USA should be able to DOW Japan, soon after Japan is at war with UK. I have always supported it. In fact, I have evens stated in the past that the rule might have to overridden in the game should it be impossible for USA to do so, by the rule. And in fact, the entire Axis supported your view. From the game log:
name = "Predator (custom):wait a min can USA dow me ?"
name = "adam (everyone):every dow they stop moving"
name = "Cueball (everyone):can join allies yet I dont thnk"
name = "Predator (everyone):cant you mean ?"
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):look, it doesnt matter "
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):adapt"
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):the retarted last player was a nab"
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):we must adapt "
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):u want to smash uk, smash su then usa all alone?"
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):go play sp forthat"
name = "Predator (everyone):well I dont care really"
name = "adam (everyone):same here"
name = "Predator (everyone):but rules are rules"
name = "adam (everyone):we're banging UK"
name = "Predator (everyone):anyway np"
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):had it been me running this"
name = "von Bock (everyone):well just seems the axis is playing somewhat gamish"
name = "11:00 September 20, 1940 : 4. Nihon Koukuujieitai has arrived in Hainan."
name = "11:00 September 20, 1940 : 1. Hikoutai has arrived in Hainan."
name = "von Bock (everyone):so i didnt really feel pity"
name = "Colonel_General (everyone):and i would be banging u"
name = "Predator (everyone):gamish ?"
name = "17:00 September 20, 1940 : 6. Hikoutai has arrived in Rabaul."
name = "1:00 September 21, 1940 : 15. Kaigun has arrived in Brunei Bay."
name = "2:00 September 21, 1940 : 12. Kaigun has arrived in Hong Kong."
name = "3:00 September 21, 1940 : Our forces in Central Mid-Indian Ridge have sunk 2 transports and 0 escorts."
name = "adam (everyone):lol bulgarian inf went permanent german"
name = "von Bock (everyone):Germany DoW Netherlands as Japs are at war so they automatically put Japs at war with allies with no Declartion"
name = "von Bock (everyone):keeping Beligerence down"
name = "13:00 September 21, 1940 : 21 Gundan has arrived in Kunchaung."
name = "15:00 September 21, 1940 : 19. Kaigun has arrived in Singapore."
name = "von Bock (everyone):but i have UK GOI, so i get 0 dissent to Declare war"
name = "17:00 September 21, 1940 : 18. Kaigun have finished with their 'Sea Transport' mission."
name = "von Bock (everyone):so i took it
name = "18:00 September 21, 1940 : 16 Gundan has arrived in Kunchaung."
name = "18:00 September 21, 1940 : 12 Gundan has arrived in Lashio."
name = "Predator (everyone):heh I wont say a word"
name = "9:00 September 22, 1940 : 26 Gundan has arrived in Kota Bahru."
name = "Cueball (everyone):whats the issue"
name = "von Bock (everyone):lol you dont need to bs me i dont mind either way, but was it on purpose?"
[SNIP]
name = "von Bock (everyone):no pearl harbour event?"
name = "Cueball (everyone):lol"
name = "Cueball (everyone):I am fine with this is appropriate"
name = "12:00 September 25, 1940 : 11. Hikoutai has arrived in Saipan."
name = "13:00 September 25, 1940 : 3. Nihon Koukuujieitai has arrived in Saipan."
name = "Cueball (everyone):meaning US DOW"
name = "18:00 September 25, 1940 : 7. Hikoutai has arrived in Saipan."
name = "von Bock (everyone):what do you mean"
name = "Cueball (everyone):I thought that is what you were talking about"
name = "von Bock (everyone):is there no Pearl Harbour event?"
name = "Cueball (everyone):I didnt take it"
name = "von Bock (everyone):isnt that forbidden?"
name = "Cueball (everyone):why would that be forbidden?"
name = "von Bock (everyone):i mean now, im going to have to do things selfishly without considering you guys
So in fact, any charges of gaminess, are a completely unfounded slur, because if Axis were intentionally avoiding belligerence to avoid US war entry, they would not have to a man agreed that your decision to DOW was completely fine.
As for Pearl Harbour, that is completely theoretical given the changes to the game structure, and the rebalancing of the game to accomodate. Unfortunately it will be really hard to come to any hard and fast conclusion about that because you proceeded to throw away huge amounts of men and material, instead "simply to free[ing] the IC" as you say above.
Next week, I will play USA, then. We will need a competent Japan.
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It's worrying to see how some people take advantage of the chat logs , cueball if you don't want to be considered as one cheater by anyday don't use them anymore, the tempting to look at private opponents chat is very strong, players are humans, noone is perfect...
, cueball if you don't want to be considered as one cheater by anyday don't use them anymore, the tempting to look at private opponents chat is very strong, players are humans, noone is perfect...I appreciate that!
But, as its my save, it does not include any custom Allied chat, only Axis custom chat and general chat. My save does not contain any of their private discussions. Look at some of your saves and you will see that the host save only records the custom chat going to or coming from the host, nothing more.
But, as its my save, it does not include any custom Allied chat, only Axis custom chat and general chat. My save does not contain any of their private discussions. Look at some of your saves and you will see that the host save only records the custom chat going to or coming from the host, nothing more.
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my 2 cents: japan has no energy and absolutely no where to get it except SU, going to be a good show to see how they recover from -300 energy a day with only a stockpile of 7200.
germany had all the bel needed to make USA gear for the third time, just had reached 45 think it was 46 when USA joined the war.
germany had all the bel needed to make USA gear for the third time, just had reached 45 think it was 46 when USA joined the war.
naval statistics:
Total Allied ships sank: 114
USA: 10 ships
UK: 28 ships
France: 34 ships
Total axis ships sank: 27
Germany: 0 ships
Japan: 7 ships
Italy: 13 ships
Country and ship stats:
Top Axis Offensive ships:
1. Heavy Cruiser RM Zara 5 kills, Heavy Cruiser RM Gorizia 5 kills, IJN Kaga 5 kills
Top Allied Offensive Ships:
1. HMS Devenshire 3 kills
Kills By Country:
UK: 10 ships
USA: 4 ships
Fra: 5 ships
Ger: 4 ships
Jap: 55 ships
Ita: 55 ships
Japan may have 56 kills and italy 54 but I cannot remember if the HMAS Canberra was sunk in alexandria when Italian fleets caught it almost alone, or if it was sunk later in indian waters by japan.
Total Allied ships sank: 114
USA: 10 ships
UK: 28 ships
France: 34 ships
Total axis ships sank: 27
Germany: 0 ships
Japan: 7 ships
Italy: 13 ships
Country and ship stats:
Top Axis Offensive ships:
1. Heavy Cruiser RM Zara 5 kills, Heavy Cruiser RM Gorizia 5 kills, IJN Kaga 5 kills
Top Allied Offensive Ships:
1. HMS Devenshire 3 kills
Kills By Country:
UK: 10 ships
USA: 4 ships
Fra: 5 ships
Ger: 4 ships
Jap: 55 ships
Ita: 55 ships
Japan may have 56 kills and italy 54 but I cannot remember if the HMAS Canberra was sunk in alexandria when Italian fleets caught it almost alone, or if it was sunk later in indian waters by japan.
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The save always includes the messages the saver saw during the last session.
So if you transfer the HOSTS save at the end of the session you will see all the messages that he has seen.
If you save the game at the end of the session you will see only your messages. However upon dling the HOSTS save at the start of the session you will be able to see all his messages.
Just a crap system, but it has been with us since EU1.
Better to talk in rooms setup to do this if the host is on your team and you are scared that the enemy peaks at the save..
So if you transfer the HOSTS save at the end of the session you will see all the messages that he has seen.
If you save the game at the end of the session you will see only your messages. However upon dling the HOSTS save at the start of the session you will be able to see all his messages.
Just a crap system, but it has been with us since EU1.
Better to talk in rooms setup to do this if the host is on your team and you are scared that the enemy peaks at the save..
just open the save file search for
then delete that whole segement it's all the chat. quite simple takes 2 mins if you stay on top of it after every rehost, plus reduces save size and cpu drain
now compare me the sizes of the respective fleets and you see why the current setup is gaya.d.a.m said:
for the record i bleive all 10 of the USA loses are level I subs
Fiendix said:
Not at all afraid, one guy recently told me in a quite upfront manner that he looked at the my dialogue from the save I gave him and plotted his strategy based on that. Thing is, I changed my game plan in the next session and he fucked himself good.
msn chat logs
Steve is Cueball*
Steve says:
and like a crying baby you fucked off when it didnt go your way
Steve says:
simple
Steve says:
you jammed
Steve says:
your a loser
Steve says:
everyone cheats so I do
Steve says:
so
Steve says:
be a man
Steve says:
YES. I looked at the chat log and planned my strategy based on what I read on the save
.........
Steve is Cueball*
Steve says:
and like a crying baby you fucked off when it didnt go your way
Steve says:
simple
Steve says:
you jammed
Steve says:
your a loser
Steve says:
everyone cheats so I do
Steve says:
so
Steve says:
be a man
Steve says:
YES. I looked at the chat log and planned my strategy based on what I read on the save
.........
What is this about?
You are admitting that you planned your strat for session 5 based on the chat log you read from the session 4, like you told me the other night? Well, I can respect you admitting that.
You are admitting that you planned your strat for session 5 based on the chat log you read from the session 4, like you told me the other night? Well, I can respect you admitting that.
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no its about me showing everyone that you admit to cheating
and for the record, I quit not because i was beaten, I quit because i couldnt stand listening to your sense of superiority for beating a USA who was handycapped by playing AI while you massed Carriers and airforce for years and as USA i had to build logistics. Meanwhile you guys fuck around with Netherlands to make Japan at war with allies but not with a declaration keeping the beligerence down
maybe a little modesty for winning, but i guess its just much better to explain how you are so much superior for beating a nation who was AI controlled for 4 and a half years.
even the Spartans get more credit, because they dont restrict the allies like you guys do, they are willing to do a even 3:3 from the start
and for the record, I quit not because i was beaten, I quit because i couldnt stand listening to your sense of superiority for beating a USA who was handycapped by playing AI while you massed Carriers and airforce for years and as USA i had to build logistics. Meanwhile you guys fuck around with Netherlands to make Japan at war with allies but not with a declaration keeping the beligerence down
maybe a little modesty for winning, but i guess its just much better to explain how you are so much superior for beating a nation who was AI controlled for 4 and a half years.
even the Spartans get more credit, because they dont restrict the allies like you guys do, they are willing to do a even 3:3 from the start
this game had nothing to do with USA being AI. In compensation for that france had 192 divs with 1940 artillery and 60 extra forts. Japan is beyond uber weak in this mod, they have the power to take india slowly, netherlands and new guinea, and then try to take australian mainland depending on what USA is doing there on how easy that goes. After these operations it will be all Japan can do to hold these acquisitions and fight Russia, UK, and USA all at the same time without china. This game had to do more with poor planning by UK in the early years, he should have either helped france with tanks and air, or built up a massive IC reserve and airforce, and prepare to take on germans with combined allied forces, while USA focuses completely on Japan. again in this game the quick seizure of gibraltor is what I think toppled the tide in africa. dunno why in the world people never try to defend that, when all you must do is buildup airbases there and swamp it with ftr, then airbase strike spain and log bomb seville. Wala Gibraltor will never fall because it is mtn with landforts and germans cannot regain org, interdict, and fight shitty because of 45-50ish percent supply eff.
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