East European countries

[Darkrenown]

no that's just the whole point of ww2. WW2 was about liberating the oppressed from tyranny,

No it wasn't, for the most part it was a defensive war fought by the allies/USSR after being DoWed by the Axis nations. True the allies DoWed Germany, but that was because they has basicly guaranteed Poland's indepenance to discourage further Germany expansion.

and then lacking the balls to say "NO WAY, JOSE" to Stalin is WWII.

Yes, what wimps! Not wanting to fight the most powerful army in the world when their nations were alread exhausted by years of total war.

I can give other examples, during the Italy campaign - Churchill wanted to also invade the Balkans to liberate them - it was a achievable target and the Nazi regimes there had become unstable.

Well if you're playing HoI2 and you think you can pull off a balkan invasion, go for it.

I guess it's a thin line to cross to declare war on communism. The Warschaw rising is a good example of the Soviet policy and when I would have been allied supreme commander I might have reconsidered to throw 2 nukes on the defeated Japanese - there might have been better targets,

Have fun invading the Japanese home isle then And what commie target are you going to nuke? Their important cities are thousands of miles behind the front and the Red air force is in much better shape than the Japanese air force. Maybe you'd nuke occupied Poland/Germany/Balkans? I think you'd find they'd enjoy that even less than Soviet occupation.

 

[Darkrenown]

Darkrenown,

I find your response to be totally uncooperative.

Well, yes. I'm disagreeing with you.

All the basic information in this thread are facts - not fantasies.

No, which is why I am disagreeing.

When you say that WWII wasn't about ideologies clashing, what's the ideology triangle in HOI1 then?

HoI is a game, not an exact simulation of reality. The different ideologies got along fine untill Germany started expanding.

Why not fight those Soviet devils?

Because the allies were exhausted from years from war and the Soviets had a huge and powerful army.

did you ever consider what those Soviets devils did with entire races after WWII - they just moved them around to kill them and destroy their idendity,

Did I ever say the soviets were nice people? No. What I said was it was not practical to fight them at that point.

I don't know wether you are Britisch or American but I prefer to take cause for the POlisch that liberated us here in Belgium - instead of hiding that story in silence to respect the "great allied glory",

Ok, but I didn't mention that at all.

And about the A-bomb, that's simple. A-bombs can be powerfull bargaining tools.

Which doesn't answer my point at all. Would it even be possible to hit any major soviet targets? How can the Bomb be a powerful bargaining chip when no one has ever seen it used? Remember, before it was used on Japan, no one outside of the people testing it had any idea how powerful it was.

 

[Darkrenown]

Darkrenown, Lonewulf,

those arguments you are giving are not to the point and shed a shade on the true history of WWII.

And saying that the arguments I gave are not facts is just an act of arrogance as those 40 Poolisch troopers still living in Belgium (40 out of the 400 are still alive) probably will have been imposters. Yes, those guys are lying the whole story and all their misery they experienced,

What the hell are you talking about? So there are "40 Poolisch troopers still living in Belgium", so what? How is that in any way related to the allied armies readiness to fight the Red army or the possible use of A-Bombs against the USSR?

you guys are behaving arrogant, and smell like revisionists. "It was not practical to fight the Soviets at that time". In my book, Stalin was as much evil as Hitler was - proven during and after WWII. How many people died in Stalins camps? How many where purged away even before the war had started?

How are we being arrogant?

How is it revisionist to say it was impractical to fight the soviets at this time? Clearly it wasn't, which is why we didn't. Rather, YOU are the one doing the revising here.

Saying that "everybody got along fine before Germany went to war" is simply stupid. What about Finland then and the Baltic? And the execution of the educated officers in Poland?

I said that in response to your claim that WWII was purely a clash of idology rather than a war fough against german (and later Axis) agression. Exactly how was the winter war or the baltic annexions a clash of idology?

And saying it's wise to betray a part of the allies is just crap - total crap. When you are into an alliance you'll go all the way - you don't justify that be just whistling.

no your point of vue is making me sick making those quotes and not giving counter evidence,

long live the Poolisch soldiers that fought for the liberation of France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany,

my point was simply and short =

that the allied stance towards the Soviet Union should be of more importance in HOI2 *** because Stalins tyranny was obviously already during WWII (and before) and during the peace negotiations coming to the surface*** as in HOI1 a war between allies and Soviets is highly unlikely.

basicly = how many people where killed in Rwanda because the world was reluctant to intervene when the Canadian General was triggering the bell,

yes, it's a story of all times. But there's no need in minimising the story afterwards, facts are facts. The allies where just to easy on Stalin,

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

 

[Darkrenown]

I think me and Darkrenown have a good career in politics ahead of us then

I am not a crook!

 

[Darkrenown]

Just pointing out that after the continuation war if backed by US Finland would probably be very happy about giving the allies airbases very close to Soviets...

True, but Leningrad makes a nice supply point for a 3rd invasion of Finland with a great big army

 

[Darkrenown]

I dunno about that - the Soviet Army was pathologically dependent on US food aid. In fact, when US food aid was withdrawn following the USSR's refusal to allow Eastern European countries to participate in the Marshall Plan, Stalin was forced to reduce the size of the Red Army by between 2/3's and 3/4's of its peak wartime height and actually faced the prospect of mass starvation.

Do you have a source for that? The USSR and especially the Ukrain produced a huge amount of food. I would not have thought they needed any imported food, although I do not have any sources one way or the other to hand right now. As for the reduction of the army, well the war was over, it would make sense to cut back on the number of troops whether they could be fed or not.